us marine kills wounded, unarmed man in a mosque in al-falluja

[Maestro Minded]

FALLUJA, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military is investigating whether a Marine shot dead an unarmed, wounded insurgent during the battle for Falluja in an incident captured on videotape by a pool reporter.

The man was shot in the head at close range Saturday by a Marine who found him among a group of wounded men. The wounded men were found in a mosque that Marines said had been the source of small-arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire the previous day.

The Marine in the videotape has been removed from his unit and taken to the headquarters of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, and the Navy's Criminal Investigative Service said it plans to question one of the other wounded Iraqis as part of the probe, according to the pool reporter embedded with the unit.

"Let me make it perfectly clear: We follow the law of armed conflict and we hold ourselves to high standard of accountability," Marine Lt. Gen. John F. Sattler said Tuesday. "The facts of this case will be thoroughly pursued to make an informed decision and to protect rights of all persons involved."

The investigation will determine whether the Marine violated any rules or should be charged with any crime. Lt. Col. Bob Miller, a staff judge advocate for the 1st Marine Division, said wounded insurgents who pose no threat generally "would not be considered hostile."

The Marine seen shooting the man was part of a squad from the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, which had been part of intense house-to-house fighting in southern Falluja.

U.S. rules of engagement prohibit American troops from killing any prisoner who does not pose a threat, and commanders say they are worried the video might encourage more insurgents to fight to the death rather than surrender.

The military asked that networks obscure the names and recognizable faces of the Marines inside the mosque when they broadcast video of the incident. The request came from Marine judge advocate Col. John Weil to NBC News, which videotaped the killing, and was based on privacy concerns.

Friday, the Marines were fired upon by snipers and insurgents armed with rocket-propelled grenades from a mosque and an adjacent building. The Marines returned fire with tank shells and machine guns.

They eventually stormed the mosque, killing 10 insurgents and wounding five others, and showing off a cache of rifles and grenades for journalists.

The Marines told the pool reporter that the wounded men would be left behind for others to pick up and move to the rear for treatment. But Saturday, another squad of Marines found that the mosque had been reoccupied by insurgents and attacked it again, only to find the same wounded men inside.

Four of the men appeared to have been shot again in Saturday's fighting, and one of them appeared to be dead, according to the pool report. In the video, a Marine was seen noticing that one of the men appeared to be breathing.

A Marine approached one of the men in the mosque saying, "He's [expletive] faking he's dead. He's faking he's [expletive] dead."

The Marine raised his rifle and fired into the apparently wounded man's head, at which point a companion said, "Well, he's dead now."

When told by the pool reporter that the men were among those wounded in Friday's firefight, the Marine who fired the shot said, "I didn't know, sir. I didn't know."

The Marines said they are investigating why the wounded Iraqis were left behind for 24 hours and whether the man was killed illegally. Navy investigators said they believe they have located the fifth Iraqi -- the only one not wounded a second time -- who said he wanted to provide information about the killing.

Before the Marines entered the mosque Saturday, a lieutenant from one of two squads involved in the fighting was told that there were people inside.

"Did you shoot them?" he asked.

"Roger that, sir," one of the men replied.

"Were they armed?" the lieutenant asked. The other Marine shrugged.

The Marine who shot the Iraqi man had reportedly been returned to duty after suffering a minor facial wound Friday.

About a block away, a Marine was killed and five others wounded by a booby-trapped body they found in a house after a shootout with insurgents.

The human rights organization Amnesty International raised concerns about violations of the rules of war last week, after a British news program broadcast video of what it said was the killing of another wounded insurgent by U.S. troops.

Amnesty also noted reports that insurgents have used mosques as fighting positions, and in one incident appear to have used a white flag to lure Marines into an ambush.

"All violations of international humanitarian law and human rights law must be investigated and those responsible for unlawful attacks, including deliberate targeting of civilians, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks, and the killing of injured persons must be brought to justice," the group said in a statement issued Thursday.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/15/marine.probe/index.html

[Ant]

Yeah I saw that.  Its interesting how these things only happen when the camera is rolling.  Nope, nothing bad ever happens when the camera is off.  Obviously if we are torturing and executing people in front of the camera, we are doing much worse when no camera is around.  And that doesn't concern me out of sympathy for the iraqis as much as it concerns me that actions like these are certainly not helping us win the war on terror and the war in iraq.  All it does is incite further violoence against us, and actually legitimizes the cause of the attackers. 

Now all they have to say to justify their attacks on the US is we torture people, we killed tens of thousands, we blew up homes, we executed the injured, and so on.

[7even]

*waits for smerlus to say that americans are dominating the iraqis and winning the war clearly*

[Thirteen]

*waits for smerlus to say that americans are dominating the iraqis and winning the war clearly*

ummm we are

did you think before you actually typed that up? show me in the Milton Bradley rules on war where it says if you shoot an injured person, you lose the war

i'm glad you think about me but honestly you've just jumped to the dumbest conclusion i've seen anyone jump to in a long time... you should get some sleep

[7even]

*waits for smerlus to say that americans are dominating the iraqis and winning the war clearly*

ummm we are

did you think before you actually typed that up? show me in the Milton Bradley rules on war where it says if you shoot an injured person, you lose the war

i'm glad you think about me but honestly you've just jumped to the dumbest conclusion i've seen anyone jump to in a long time... you should get some sleep

LOL
Dont get all offensive, Im the homie man. It's just that everytime and atrocitiy happens, you're like "we're winning this war. it's 1000 to 100000." and stuff like that.
My post didnt indicate that now you're losing the war because you behave like animals, my post indicated that you behave like animals and that particular smerlus dude is still proud because you win the war. I thought that was obvious. Why would I think you lose the war because of that?? That doesnt even make sense.

[Thirteen]

*waits for smerlus to say that americans are dominating the iraqis and winning the war clearly*

ummm we are

did you think before you actually typed that up? show me in the Milton Bradley rules on war where it says if you shoot an injured person, you lose the war

i'm glad you think about me but honestly you've just jumped to the dumbest conclusion i've seen anyone jump to in a long time... you should get some sleep

LOL
Dont get all offensive, Im the homie man. It's just that everytime and atrocitiy happens, you're like "we're winning this war. it's 1000 to 100000." and stuff like that.
My post didnt indicate that now you're losing the war because you behave like animals, my post indicated that you behave like animals and that particular smerlus dude is still proud because you win the war. I thought that was obvious. Why would I think you lose the war because of that?? That doesnt even make sense.

well if you know we're winning the war, why would you need my confirmation...your comment still doesn't make any sense...

it's war...worse things have happened in a time of war, and no one can say how being in a battlefield is going to affect anyone....some people go through all this shit in a warzone error-free and when they return to their wives and kids, they beat the hell out of them...these people see close up what we only see in movies

[7even]

it's just that comments like "we're winning. 1000 to 100000 yet." and stuff similiar that are simply inappropriate in such threads. I just criticized your recent behaviour, not the fact that america is winning the war or that bad things happen in a war. both of those things dont suprise me, no matter how bad they are 

[Thirteen]

well when you put all incidents aside, what it boils down to is that we're still winning

the US pounded fallujah, lost 36 people but killed 1000-2000 insurgents, gained control of another city and pushed the terrorists back. a single act by a single person that lost control does little to darken this victory... he broke the law and he will be defending himself from a murder trial and possibly a life sentence.

[Ant]

lol are you really that impressed that we are winning a war against a tiny militia?  no one expected us to lose in Iraq, but no one expected us to do as badly as we are doing. 

Did you forget, your leader declared the war over more than a year ago now? lol how do you seriously sit around and justify all this nonsense to youself?  It makes no sense.  The war was declared over a year ago, and more people are still continuing to die.  We didn't route 2000 insurgents in fallujah.  The insurgents all left, thats why new fighting is breaking out all over iraq this week. 

I don't doubt that we will win the war in Iraq? But who the hell is the war even against?  It was supposed to be against saddam.  He is gone now.  Then we were there to liberate iraq.  Now we are there to beat iraq? 

This isn't baseball asshole.  When the score is 35-1000 that isn't points.  That is dead bodies.  Do you realize this? Because you talk about war like its a game.   

So when the mission is accomplished and we finally beat Iraq then what? How do we deal with the rest of the terrorist threat?  Al-Queda exists in 60 countries, and they are just ONE terrorist group, there are plenty more.  Granted Al-Queda is the biggest, but we are having a tough time with a shitty little insurgency in Iraq.  I'm looking forward to the day you go over there.  Then you will realize how childish you've been all this time, when u see bullets flying by you and then they hit you and you realize, its not Halo.  You don't go run, and grab the health pack, and rejoin the battle.  You sit there and die or wake up in a hosipital in pain for weeks.

[Don Rizzle]

well when you put all incidents aside, what it boils down to is that we're still winning

the US pounded fallujah, lost 36 people but killed 1000-2000 insurgents, gained control of another city and pushed the terrorists back. a single act by a single person that lost control does little to darken this victory... he broke the law and he will be defending himself from a murder trial and possibly a life sentence.

how many civillians have died in falluja since the invasion?

[Jome]

Its interesting how these things only happen when the camera is rolling.  Nope, nothing bad ever happens when the camera is off.  Obviously if we are torturing and executing people in front of the camera, we are doing much worse when no camera is around.

Of course.

[Thirteen]

lol are you really that impressed that we are winning a war against a tiny militia?  no one expected us to lose in Iraq, but no one expected us to do as badly as we are doing. 

Did you forget, your leader declared the war over more than a year ago now? lol how do you seriously sit around and justify all this nonsense to youself?  It makes no sense.  The war was declared over a year ago, and more people are still continuing to die.  We didn't route 2000 insurgents in fallujah.  The insurgents all left, thats why new fighting is breaking out all over iraq this week. 

I don't doubt that we will win the war in Iraq? But who the hell is the war even against?  It was supposed to be against saddam.  He is gone now.  Then we were there to liberate iraq.  Now we are there to beat iraq? 

This isn't baseball asshole.  When the score is 35-1000 that isn't points.  That is dead bodies.  Do you realize this? Because you talk about war like its a game.   

So when the mission is accomplished and we finally beat Iraq then what? How do we deal with the rest of the terrorist threat?  Al-Queda exists in 60 countries, and they are just ONE terrorist group, there are plenty more.  Granted Al-Queda is the biggest, but we are having a tough time with a shitty little insurgency in Iraq.  I'm looking forward to the day you go over there.  Then you will realize how childish you've been all this time, when u see bullets flying by you and then they hit you and you realize, its not Halo.  You don't go run, and grab the health pack, and rejoin the battle.  You sit there and die or wake up in a hosipital in pain for weeks.

1. tiny militia? 2000 dead, 1000 captured in fallujah and you consider this tiny? this happens to be the only people we happened to kill and capture...there could be numbers more.  it's harder to fight a war against people that look like civilians than it is against a country's army that all have the same uniform... a person in iraq can ride his bike, drop off a IED, kill 8 people and then be off to work....i don't expect you to comprehend this because all you do is sit behind your computer reading articles.

2. if you want to be technical...the war was already over, it was declared over almost a year ago...right now we're just providing security...so while sadaam is gone, there's always the need for security

3. i've already been in one warzone, i've got medals for it. i've done charity and security work in countries where we had to have a group of marines watch us while we try to rebuild schools,and got medals for that. Now i'm training to be in a combat unit that's headed to iraq in jan.... don't sit behind your computer and preach to me what might happen to me, i'm well aware of all this and more. if anyone has a right to talk and debate on this subject it's me, because while all you guys make up reasons on how this situation effects your life, it REALLY effects my life

[acbaylove]

^ Much respect.

[Ant]

What kind of war has more casualties per day after the war ends than while its going on? 

Look I'm glad you proudly serve your country, but don't bullshit me that just because you serve in the military you know it all.  Anyone that blindly supports Bush loses their right to a credible opinion.  I've come on here repeatedly and instead of just spouting personal opinions I've shown you reports, and analysis by republicans and independents.  Meanwhile you, nor anyone else on this site, has ever been able to effectively argue against me.  The reason you can't is because this time your side is wrong, and your position is completely indefensible. 

Instead you have to look for ways to discredit the attacks.  Richard Clarke is partisan.  Michael Scheurer is simply disgruntled.  McLaughlin is upset he didn't get to head the CIA.  Nobel Laureates are all liberals.  The economists don't know whet they are talking about.


The way you argue.  The only people who are right are the people who side with Bush.  Imagine if instead of trying to prove your side right you tried to simply find out what was the truth.  Instead you come from a biased position, and your unwilling to change.  I was willing to change my opinion for a long time, but not one ever countered the arguements leveled agaisnt Bush. Bush never countered them instead he just deflected, lied, and slandered his opposition.   

Then you come on here talking like an ignorant asshole that is proud we are 'crushin'g the opposition.  We aren't crushing the opposition.  We are killing people.  We are killing insurgents, and we  killing innocent civilians.  I don;t have to serve in iraq to tell you that is wrong.  If you proudly stand up for the killing of tens  of thousands of innocents, if you stand up for the execution of injured insurgents, and the torture of thousands more then fuck off prick no one is proud that you served and have ur medals. 

I'm proud of the soldier that served their country respectfully and served for the good of their nation and the good of the world.  My Father and both of my grandfathers served under the US military.  Countlesss men and women have served this country respectfully.  But don't tell me that some lil prick that talks about killing like its a football game deserves respect.  Everytime I hear you run your motuh about how we are killing and tearin everyoen apart it makes me think that your not different than the guy mentioned in this article.

[Machiavelli]

This is Urban Combat people, the most difficult fighting in the world.

Take your Anti-War hats off and be in thats guys position.

About a block away, a Marine was killed and five others wounded by a booby-trapped body they found in a house after a shootout with insurgents.

He was shot the day before in the face and when your fighting in an area when you don't know when your gonna get shot i would do the same.


Also, this camera man is a complete moron/idiot. You don't video tape someone killing anyone even if it was armed terrorist shooting at Americans. Now, cuz of this, there will be more Terrorists and even more people who hate Americans and this war.