Chuck Philips: Biggie, Pac & His Truth

[Myrealname]

Chuck Philips, the award-winning reporter, spoke briefly, but candidly to AllHipHop.com about his shocking expose that alleges Christopher "The Notorious B.I.G." Wallace offered gang members $1 million to murder rap martyr Tupac Shakur. While the discussion and controversy rages onward unchecked, the writer at the center of it all stands firmly by his version of the truth.

AHH: Did you make attempts to contact Puffy’s camp?

CP: I called Ms Wallace and I called Ms. Wallace lawyer. I’ve talked to Lil’ Cease before when I did stories on Biggie’s shooting and I’m still trying to work that particular case myself. When I worked those calls, I never heard back from Lil’ Cease or Damien (Big's road manager and best friend). The number that I had, I left a message at and they never called back. This week, I spent quite a bit of time, and last week, trying to reach from Puffy’s people and never really heard back until yesterday (Thursday Sept 5, 2002) and they had no comment. Ms. Wallace did, according to her lawyer, she didn’t return my calls this time either. I used to talk to her really pretty regularly when I was working on that case. I was told she “didn’t want to waste her breath” talking to me if this is what I was going to write. Hang on one sec (takes a call.) OK.

Cease is on the radio saying that he was in Brooklyn and Biggie was out with him. Hang on one sec, pardon me. (Takes another phone call.) Sorry. H was on the radio this morning saying that he was with Big.

AHH: Yeah, exactly. I talked to Cease and he pretty much refuted everything you said with regards to Big putting a hit out on Pac. He said they were both in Jersey watching the fight on TV. About two days later Big was arrested in Brooklyn for smoking weed….

CP: Yeah, he had a weapon in his house or something that day.

AHH: Pardon me?

CP: Yeah he got arrested. I don’t think it was two days later though. I think it was a few days after Tupac died. That’s like more than eight days later.

AHH: He says two days after the shooting.

CP: So, he said two days after the shooting? He got arrested for the pot or whatever it was?

AHH: Yeah, in Brooklyn.

CP: That’s what he told you – two days after the shooting?

AHH: Two days after the shooting. (correct.) He also said, to the effect, that it would almost be impossible for Big to be in the MGM Grand without being noticed and also under a false name. What do you say to that?

CP: I didn’t say that he wasn’t noticed. I said that he went in under a false name.

AHH: Ok. Did you have any eyewitnesses that put Big right there in Las Vegas?

CP: Yes I do or I wouldn’t have worked the story if I didn’t.

AHH: I know that’s obvious, but what do you say to something like Lil’ Ceas,e who was Big’s number 2 man, who is saying, “Look, he was in Jersey.” Do you think he’s lying?

CP: I’m not going to say whether he’s lying or not. All I am saying is, the people I talked to told me this is what happened. And I believe they know what happened. AHH: So, when you went into the story, you didn’t know what to expect?

CP: I believed that the Crips did it. I didn’t know who pulled the trigger. I didn’t know how the thing went down. And frankly, when I went into this story, if you go back and read all the stories I’ve written over the years – I’ve written a lot of stories on this – I did not really believe that these guys didn’t like each other. I thought that was a big bunch – and I knew the Death Row guys better than the Bad Boy guys. I’ve talked to Lil’ Cease and I’ve talked to him a bunch of times. In fact, I wrote stories that challenged the LAPD and Cease was in those stories. And Damien was in those stories. And we were the first ones to write that the government was following them around. That came from Cease and Damien. And I think Ms. Wallace is a wonderful person and it’s a terrible situation that I got into this juncture where this information came up and I did everything to disprove it in my report.

I respect Ms. Wallace and it was really painful, because I like her. And that was the hardest thing and I also had to call Orlando Anderson’s mother and that was a very difficult situation.

AHH: Did you ever consider using anonymous quotes? Honestly, I feel like it reads like a book or maybe a movie script or something.

CP: I tried to write it in a narrative style. Tomorrow’s story (part 2) is the news story. And I wrote this is a narrative style. We tried a couple different ideas in writing it. What would be the point of using anonymous quote from gang members in the story? That doesn’t really strengthen the story, so we told you what the story was based on. I used police affidavits, court documents, I did a year and a half or interviews, man…lots and lots of interviews. I tried to trip people up. Some of those people were gang investigators and some were gangsters. And both gangs – Bloods and Crips. And at the end of the day, this is what conclusively, if you add all that up, this is what I think happened. This is what they say happened. And I wasn’t there. I wasn’t in the car shooting. I wasn’t in the car being shot. And, I’m a reporter. And if you go through my path, I’m an investigative reporter and I’ve done lots of different kinds of investigations. Its not like I’m just making this shit up.

And the other thing is, I have great respect for these people as artists.

AHH: This seems to refute other theories about who killed Pac and Big.

CP: I don’t know who killed Biggie yet. I don’t say anything about that in the story. Its clear by the people that I interviewed that Suge Knight had nothing to do with this.

AHH: They say Suge had nothing to do with it?

CP: Absolutely nothing.

AHH: OK.

CP: They say they killed [Tupac] for their own reasons. Biggie was incidental. It wasn’t like Biggie ordered this up. That’s how everybody is reporting it. If you really read the story, a series of kind of coincidences and spontaneous events and, in a sense they went over there to jack Biggie. According to them [Big said], “Lets kill him [Tupac], let’s kill him.” Whether he was serious, we don’t know. They [The Crips] never took him seriously and then on this day, they said, “We’re killin’ him so lets go get some money.” And then they just put it to him.

AHH: They were extorting Biggie?

CP: That’s the point I’m trying to make. In their minds, the didn’t value – the people who did this obviously did think of them [Tupac and Biggie] like everybody else did. They just thought they were punks, according to who I’ve been talking to. And so they said, “Let’s get some money out of it.”

AHH: In terms of hip-hop in general, it’s gotten such a bad rap, people have died over this matter. A lot of parties involved are simply tired of this and plus worried that more people are going to die. I’m personally worried that more people are gonna die. Nobody’s really said this before, that Biggie paid to kill Tupac.

CP: Oh yes they did in the past – that there was a hit out from the East Coast. That was out the first day. In fact, the police heard about it, but no one ever had this detailed information. That was suggested the first day. The Las Vegas police heard about it. They didn’t know who Tupac was when he got shot. I’m a white guy and I love black music. Its my favorite music and black musice got me into this job, kind of. Because nobody in the paper covered it well, so I did a lot of stories in this way. I’ve run a lot of different stories over the years, but I think that it is the foundation of all pop music…

AHH: What is?

CP: Black music. Everybody who’s any good that’s white, copied somebody that’s black, just about-in the pop world. I think hip-hop is getting a little boring right now, I have to say, its very commercial right now. There was a very vital period-the time we’re writing about now extremely vital. With great songs been written, great productions being made, really intense stuff. And that’s why I write about it. And I think it’s great stuff. All of this stuff was a lot of mistakes. People getting hooked up with gangs, and that’s what caused all this. You know, rap music that’s about gangs, is not the same as gangs. And what happens with gangs, is two dead rappers. v AHH: Right…

CP: That’s what happened here. There’s people who believe that Rampart police killed bot of these rappers. If you believe that, that’s fine. I don’t believe that. I think they got messed up with people that was way higher than they ever knew. They were running with people who were dangerous. And those AHH: Do you fear for your own safety?

CP: I don’t know. I just think when you’re gonna die, you’re gonna die.

[=[Euthanasia]=]

That was a good read. I still don't trust his sources though, but I think he's more about exposing this now that what I thought of him before, being just some reporter that doesn't really know much about hip-hop. But that still doesn't give him the right to run this story when there's no real strength behind it, no legit evidence. This also makes me think that because he's white the gang members he interviewed might of punked him by telling him alot of false shit. I dunno.

[M Dogg™]

I think he might have mis heard some stuff in terms of where Biggie was... but I do think his right with the Crips. He knows his facts, and gathered a grip of actual accounted info. It's hard to point it to Biggie, but hey, the Crips might be right. A gang has no reason to lie at all.

[Darksider]

Good interview!!!!

[=[Euthanasia]=]

I think he might have mis heard some stuff in terms of where Biggie was... but I do think his right with the Crips. He knows his facts, and gathered a grip of actual accounted info. It's hard to point it to Biggie, but hey, the Crips might be right. A gang has no reason to lie at all.

I believe the crips had alot to do with it, but I believed that a long time ago. They only real factual material he has is all the stuff about when and where it happened, nothing else he said was based on factual material, just from what the crips claim. And if he paid them for the info and stuff then i'm guessing thats enough reason to lie, i'm pretty sure the recognition they seem to be getting isn't bad for them either  

[That_Cracka_J]

We can sit here and say, "the gangmembers punked him" or "he heard the information false" and got it twisted and shit, but Chuck Philips is a reporter.  This is an award winning reporter and it's his job and business, so he knows what he's doing.  He would not just write up a story with half-truths and allegations.  This is his profession, not a part-time hobby.

[=[Euthanasia]=]

We can sit here and say, "the gangmembers punked him" or "he heard the information false" and got it twisted and shit, but Chuck Philips is a reporter.  This is an award winning reporter and it's his job and business, so he knows what he's doing.  He would not just write up a story with half-truths and allegations.  This is his profession, not a part-time hobby.

Just because he has awards and he's from a credible newspaper doesn't make his allegations factual. I'm not hating on what he's trying to do, but it's still possible that his sources are false. I think Nick Broomfield's film has brought about the most conclusive theories so far.