Eminem is the most over-rated producer in hip-hop right now

[white Boy]

eminem sells because, hes controversial, skilled, white, and has poppy singles.

[Shallow]

Don`t make a fool of yourself, you don`t got to have musical theory to know good music. The most important thing about music is melody. Without a good melody you don`t even have a fucking song! Allmost all Eminem melody`s sound the same. The same boring, messy, cheesy, depressed shit over and over again. That`s the main reason why he sucks. I could get into many other things like the drum programing, producing and executing the track, but it`s no point anyway becouse I honestly think people are deaf to his music, and in love with his image.
By the way Jake, I`m studying music-production at a multimedia school, so by your rules I can talk as much shit as I want about his production   

But 95 out of 100 times no rap producer composes the melody, they just sample and loop it or have it replayed by studio musicians after they find an old melody from another record.

Take "Nigga Wit A gun" by Dre, and "Pass The Mic" by the Beasties. They both have the exact same melody. Chronic came out a couple months before Check Your Head. It was a case of two different rap acts using the same sample at about the same time. I could steal melodies from 70s funk, but that doesn't make me a good producer.

[soopa-man]

he got some hot shyt sometimes but its like he is not as talented to produce a Pac album...50 Cent that would be more like it...when he works with other artist its usually an empty track Nas "the cross", Redman "I C Dead People" empty beats dope loops but it sounds like they were never mixed..its like MTV, XXL, VIBE, write him off as a dope producer and no one goes against the grain and says its wack when it is sometimes, look at "Encore" everyone knows its wack as fuck but evryone owns a copy, and lies about having it, peeps get gassed up with controversy not music....

[white Boy]

^ i dont own a copy, and im ebaresed to say its on my ipod tho.. i downloaded it..

[smartass]

i find it funny....no wait commical how people here say eminem is a horrible producer yet LOOOOOVE daz and battlecat. i ain't saying eminem is dr. dre or nothing but he's not even a fifth as bad as y'all make him out to be....some of y'all need to take up an instrument or a music class

dont compare eminem to daz ever again, you fucking clown.

dogg food and retaliation revenge and get back>eminems shitty repetitive same snare and bass beats

shit, rockwilder has the same repetitive style and even his production is better than eminem.

watch out this guy knows REAL music....rockwilder and daz dillinger,lol

dude c'mon i ain't saying em is the best but he's certainly ALOT better musically than some of y'all heros

lose yourself>daz/rockwilders' whole career

the ramblings of a defeated homosexual. this thread is about production, you blind dickrider.

^ a wise man once said "if you have to make personal attacks on someone during a disagreement or argument....you lost the argument"

i don't even really like eminem all that much BUT i'll definately give him my props.............when you learn to analyze music you learn to seperate personal bias from the observed quality, learn some musical theory then come back and talk shit about eminem's production style. Until then you're just as foolish as some one saying the beatles suck.

you already lost, kid. you tried to make the thread about something completely different(true sign of a dickrider), now that you think i "slipped up", you are going to try and bring it back to production. lol @ analyze music, i dont have to analyze shit when he uses the same snare and dark bass in 99% of his tracks, not to mention the fact that he cant layer for shit. another idiot speaking on something they know nothing about...if you never used an mpc in your life, dont even speak on this topic, for real. the only good track he ever did was the thing for 2pac and biggie, and you know why he did that? he found a good vocal sample to use, and he raised the pitch, yet he still used the same tired bass. wow, great producer!!!! hes gnarly duuuuuuuuude

[Larrabee]

I believe that Em's got some talent as a producer, I've enjoyed a few of his beats, but I definitely agree that whatever style he's been trying to develop is getting way too repetitive. Every now and then, he produces some hot material, but it's not like he keeps getting better and better. For him, it's pretty much 'hit or miss'.

[Shallow]

i find it funny....no wait commical how people here say eminem is a horrible producer yet LOOOOOVE daz and battlecat. i ain't saying eminem is dr. dre or nothing but he's not even a fifth as bad as y'all make him out to be....some of y'all need to take up an instrument or a music class

dont compare eminem to daz ever again, you fucking clown.

dogg food and retaliation revenge and get back>eminems shitty repetitive same snare and bass beats

shit, rockwilder has the same repetitive style and even his production is better than eminem.

watch out this guy knows REAL music....rockwilder and daz dillinger,lol

dude c'mon i ain't saying em is the best but he's certainly ALOT better musically than some of y'all heros

lose yourself>daz/rockwilders' whole career

the ramblings of a defeated homosexual. this thread is about production, you blind dickrider.

^ a wise man once said "if you have to make personal attacks on someone during a disagreement or argument....you lost the argument"

i don't even really like eminem all that much BUT i'll definately give him my props.............when you learn to analyze music you learn to seperate personal bias from the observed quality, learn some musical theory then come back and talk shit about eminem's production style. Until then you're just as foolish as some one saying the beatles suck.

you already lost, kid. you tried to make the thread about something completely different(true sign of a dickrider), now that you think i "slipped up", you are going to try and bring it back to production. lol @ analyze music, i dont have to analyze shit when he uses the same snare and dark bass in 99% of his tracks, not to mention the fact that he cant layer for shit. another idiot speaking on something they know nothing about...if you never used an mpc in your life, dont even speak on this topic, for real. the only good track he ever did was the thing for 2pac and biggie, and you know why he did that? he found a good vocal sample to use, and he raised the pitch, yet he still used the same tired bass. wow, great producer!!!! hes gnarly duuuuuuuuude

You didn't like Renegade? I personally think all hip hop producers are worth less, Eminem included, but Renegade is just as good as Running. If the Music industry is American Basket Ball, then hip hop producers are towl boys on community college teams. Any dickhead gopher in any studio in the country, big or small, could do what hip hop producers do.

[white Boy]

^ Ok.. so proove it.. make a beat..

[Shallow]

^ Ok.. so proove it.. make a beat..

I don't work in a professional studio. If I had the equipment even I could sample some old tunes and make beats.

[Elevz]

he got some hot shyt sometimes but its like he is not as talented to produce a Pac album...50 Cent that would be more like it...when he works with other artist its usually an empty track Nas "the cross", Redman "I C Dead People" empty beats dope loops but it sounds like they were never mixed..its like MTV, XXL, VIBE, write him off as a dope producer and no one goes against the grain and says its wack when it is sometimes, look at "Encore" everyone knows its wack as fuck but evryone owns a copy, and lies about having it, peeps get gassed up with controversy not music....

^ i dont own a copy, and im ebaresed to say its on my ipod tho.. i downloaded it..

Me neither, it's not even come to my mind to buy it, but I also have it on my mp3player (just because i loaded all mp3 folders on my computer to it, and that includes encore). No, I never listened to the album on my mp3player apart from the Like Toy Soldiers track (all of a sudden, like a big bang, I was feeling the song for a minute... it was just the moment and feeling, it made sense). I haven't even fully listened to the album once without skipping tracks. I haven't touched the mp3 folder more than twice. No need for lies, it's the whole truth. Wack album.

Nas - The Cross is ok tho.

[white Boy]

^ i listened to the album several times.. msot of the times, i was at my friends house, it was avtually like a 15 hour party, and for 8 hours the cd was on loop.. i gave it all the chances i could to see if it would grow on me, but it was just simply wack

[On The Edge of Insanity]

This whole argument has got stupid, because for some reason Eminem's apparant "musical" talent is being brought into play, when we were supposed to be discussing his production skills. Producers in other genres don't create the melodies for songs themselves either most of the time. Like when Rick Rubin did that Chilli Peppers album, he just sat and listened to them jam, as then took the best bits, and told them to play this and that together, then switch up to that bit, etc, his main job is to arrange what they play so that it sounds dope. What, therefore is the difference between what he does on a rock record, and what some hiphop producer does. The only difference is that he would take bits from live played music, and a hiphop producer takes the bits they like from old records, and they both then turn these into full tracks. Therefore, Em's supposed "musical" ability shouldn't even be a discussion point in this topic, the only thing we should be discussing is the fact that the large majority of his productions are wack.

[Shallow]

This whole argument has got stupid, because for some reason Eminem's apparant "musical" talent is being brought into play, when we were supposed to be discussing his production skills. Producers in other genres don't create the melodies for songs themselves either most of the time. Like when Rick Rubin did that Chilli Peppers album, he just sat and listened to them jam, as then took the best bits, and told them to play this and that together, then switch up to that bit, etc, his main job is to arrange what they play so that it sounds dope. What, therefore is the difference between what he does on a rock record, and what some hiphop producer does. The only difference is that he would take bits from live played music, and a hiphop producer takes the bits they like from old records, and they both then turn these into full tracks. Therefore, Em's supposed "musical" ability shouldn't even be a discussion point in this topic, the only thing we should be discussing is the fact that the large majority of his productions are wack.

No argument here, except that the rock producer like Rubin's job is to make the most out of the track by getting the most out of the artist(s). He may have to add a little thing here and there, but for the most part it's more to do with guiding how it's played and recorded. Hip hop producers are credited for their "composing" skills. You can hear the  difference between Rubin produced, and not Rubin produced by listening to the demos and comparing them to the final product. With Hip Hop it's not so easy to do that. I always felt Dre was great at getting the most out of rappers because very often a rapper comes a cross better with him than with out him, but on the musical side I give Dre and all the others no credit. You're right that musical talent has no business in judging production skills but people here judge the producers on the composition because they think the producer had something to do with creating it. If Puffy sampled Leon Haywood's I Wanna Do Something Freaky to You instead of Dre, people here would have just found out the sample and called him a hack like always, but when Dre does it people praise him, some to the extent of calling him Beethoven. That is just plain wrong. The producer is just supposed to take the record away from it's raw roots and make it listenable. When I downplay hip hop producers I don't mean to say any jack ass could do what they do, I mean to say that if any of the big name producers in history like Quincy Jones, Phil Spector, or Mutt Lange, would concentrate on Hip Hop and work with the current rap artists they'd do a much better job, in my opinion. I want to see Rubin get back into hip hop now that he's matured in the rock scene and produce a whole album, so my theory can be put to the test.

[BigBDrugStores]

^ Ok.. so proove it.. make a beat..

I don't work in a professional studio. If I had the equipment even I could sample some old tunes and make beats.

oh he pussied out

[broken_sword]

i usually don't really dig em's productions, but spend some time & love me are dope as hell in my opinion.