Author Topic: Italy disputes U.S. shooting account  (Read 397 times)

acbaylove

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Italy disputes U.S. shooting account
« on: March 04, 2005, 04:15:23 PM »
* READ INSIDE FOR MORE INFOS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED *

I dont have an article for it yet, but it's totally fucked up!

Italian SISME (our 007's) rescued our journalist, Giuliana Sgrena, from Iraqi terrorists this afternood. She was there from 1 month, they kidnapped her. They were in a car, driving to Baghdad. But Americans shoted on the car. A member of our SISME got killed, 2 other members were injured, and Giuliana Sgrena got injured too, they shot her on her shoulders (maybe they hit a lung).

Totally fucked up. I have no words to describe it.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 09:58:16 AM by Antonio »
 

acbaylove

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2005, 04:16:12 PM »
U.S. troops wound freed Italian, kill bodyguard

Friday, March 4, 2005 Posted: 4:29 PM EST (2129 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena, freed after one month of captivity, was wounded and one of her bodyguards was killed when U.S. troops shot at her car near a Baghdad checkpoint Friday night, multinational officials said.

According to a multinational forces statement, the car approached the checkpoint at high speed about 9 p.m. (1 p.m. ET)

U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."

The statement said the other wounded person was a man who was treated at the scene but refused to go to the hospital.

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi told reporters that Sgrena, 56, was in a car with three Italian security officers. (Full story)

Nicola Calipari was shielding Sgrena when he was killed, Berlusconi said.

Sgrena told Italian officials that she has a splinter in her left shoulder and will have minor surgery, Berlusconi said.

Berlusconi said he called U.S. Ambassador to Italy Mel Sembler to his office for an explanation of the shooting.

Sgrena, a reporter for Il Manifesto, was kidnapped outside a Baghdad mosque February 4.

Earlier Friday, attackers killed an Iraqi police chief, multinational forces officials said.

Col. Ghaib Hadab Zarib, the al-Budair police chief, was found dead near his home, about 45 kilometers (28 miles) east of Diwaniya, authorities said.

The gunmen shot him using an assault rifle and fled in a car, officials said.

One woman apparently was wounded in the attack.

On Thursday, gunmen tried to assassinate another police chief.

Col. Mou'ness Saeed, chief of al-Mouqdad police station in Kirkuk, was standing outside his car in southern Kirkuk with his guards late Thursday when gunmen opened fire from a vehicle driving by, Kirkuk police Chief Maj. Gen. Torhan Abdul Rahman said. The incident was the third assassination attempt on Saeed.

One of Saeed's guards was killed and a second critically wounded, but Saeed was unharmed.

Also Thursday, bombers struck two Iraqi security targets, killing five police officers near the Interior Ministry in Baghdad and another person in front of a police headquarters in Baquba, authorities said.

Insurgents ignited two explosive-laden vehicles near the Interior Ministry within minutes of each other, police said, after guards had stopped the vehicles. Another seven people were wounded.

In the Baquba incident, a suicide bomber detonated his car outside a headquarters for Iraqi emergency police, killing one person and wounding a dozen others, police and hospital sources said.

The attack appeared to target a convoy of Mudhafar Shahab Jiburi, chief of the police agency in Diyala province, police spokesman Sattar al-Karkhi said.

In response to recent insurgent attacks, interim Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi extended a state of emergency throughout the country for 30 days, his office said Thursday.

In a separate incident in Baghdad, an Iraqi army patrol fired on a vehicle as it approached a traffic control point. The vehicle and a vehicle behind it both exploded.

The incident is under investigation, said a spokesman for the U.S. Army 3rd Infantry Division, who offered no other details.

www.cnn.com
 

Rampant

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2005, 04:51:51 PM »
Dont take this the wrong way, but its sort of the italians fault.

Everyday americans who control the checkpoints are afraid for their lives that a car might have a bomb in it. The US military (according to the article) gave ample warning to this car (carrying the freed hostage) to stop at the checkpoint.

So when a car is speeding up to a checkpoint, and not obeying your warnings.....what are you supposed to do? Stand aside and hope this car is safe and not carrying a bomb?
 

acbaylove

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2005, 05:04:10 PM »
Dont take this the wrong way, but its sort of the italians fault.

Everyday americans who control the checkpoints are afraid for their lives that a car might have a bomb in it. The US military (according to the article) gave ample warning to this car (carrying the freed hostage) to stop at the checkpoint.

So when a car is speeding up to a checkpoint, and not obeying your warnings.....what are you supposed to do? Stand aside and hope this car is safe and not carrying a bomb?

Man i understand what you mean, but it's just a mistake. There's no justification. They were running from terrorists to the Bagdad Airport to save Giuliana Sgrena, and Americans shot 400 times against their cars!!! 400 times, man!

P.S. Italian version differs from the ones on that article anyway.
P.P.S. Bush apologized already. But Berlusconi is litterally furious.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2005, 07:38:18 PM by Antonio »
 

Rampant

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2005, 05:18:01 PM »
U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."

First of all the article never mentions (400 rounds) being fired at the car. Second it never mentions that after the car was stopped they continued to fire on it.

but if that is the case that they continued to fire on the car after it was stopped, then that is messed up.
 

acbaylove

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2005, 05:26:28 PM »
Man honestly how can you pretend the truth being said by Americans in this situation? That's just a quick article written by a journalist who simply reported the first version of Americans about the incident. Think about it: if Bush apologized to Berlusconi and Italians, if U.S. Ambassador is from more than a hour with Berlusconi trying to explain him what happened.. and if Americans opened an investigation to understand what happened.. then it's not an easy situation. And that's the second time. Some months ago friendly-fire incident involving Italians, American soldiers in northern Iraq shot at a car carrying the Italian official heading up U.S. efforts to recover Iraq's looted antiquities. Pietro Cordone, the top Italian diplomat in Iraq, was unhurt, but his Iraqi translator was killed. Fucked up. Anyway that versione (300-400 rifles, execution) was said by Giuliana Sgrena's boyfriend live on tv. He was there.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2005, 05:30:44 PM by Antonio »
 

Thirteen

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2005, 07:05:37 PM »
maybe the italians should learn no means no
 

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2005, 07:09:14 PM »
Yeah, I heard about this earlier! Talking about some trigger-happy motherfuckers.  Crazy. 
 

acbaylove

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2005, 07:32:21 PM »
maybe the italians should learn no means no

Please post some mature shit or shut the fuck up. I'm totally pro-USA, and if you check my previous posts in this section you'll notice it. I'm not here to diss Americans or to speculate about it. But what happened cant be simply reduced to a "no means no". It was night, and it's a fact Americans shoots to everything that moves, in the night. Even animals. They've killed Americans too, before "us". Civils. Everybody that moves. But in this situation, it wasnt just "something". It was the whole Italian convoy with 3 cross country vehicles of Italian Army and 1 car with journalists. They shot at our vehicles! 300-400 rifles. One guy, our boss of secret investigation, got killed. Another one is hit and is risking to die. Another one got shot in the leg. And Giuliana Sgrena is under surgery cause she got hit in her left shoulder. Damn man!! They shot at the whole Italian convoy!!!!!!!!!!! How can you shot at a convoy of 3 cross country vehicles and a car with a big ITALIAN flag on the coffer. They simply shot cause it was dark, and they didnt see shit. But that's not a good reason to kill a "hero" and almost kill other 3 person. Expecially when Americans were co-operating with us in the mission to resque the journalist. No excuse. Somebody gotta pay for it.
 

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2005, 07:38:56 PM »
It's an accident, man.  A fucked up situation that was destined to go bad.  Now people are dead, senseless violence with no answers.

I heard a good one the other day.

Somebody asks the word "Why?"

and they get "Y is a crooked letter than can never be made straight".

And that's the truth of it, right?  There's no answer! I can't explain to you anythign that will help you at all with this Antonio.  There's a big war going on in the middle east, like there's always been a big war going on somewhere, and some people who were only trying to help (the Italians) got killed, by some other people who thought they were helping (The Americans).  It's such a fucked up situation, it's crooked and it can never be made straight.  There's no answers, when you die you still won't understand what the fuck happened today. 
 

acbaylove

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2005, 07:47:49 PM »
I know, it's sad. Tonight it's like if they killed Spiderman, or Superman. You know, a hero. The guy who died was the one who rescued 2 other italians kidnapped (two women, maybe you remember that) and 3 other italian bodyguards kidnapped, who worked for an Iraqui society. He rescued Giuliana too. And when they shot to them, he was shielding her, and he got killed instead of her. It's hard to accept it's an American 20 years old "poor" guy who killed him like that. It's actually scaring. Shit happens, but this shit is terrible. The whole Nation was celebrating the fact they rescued Giuliana. They announced it on Al Jazzeera and here, on TV. Everybody was celebrating. Then the sad news. Giuliana is in the Hospital now. She's having a surgery to remove a bullet. The "hero" who saved her is dead. Another man is in critical conditions. And it was all over, man! A month of nightmares were over!!!!!!!!!! Till this shit happened! They were 15 mins away from the Airport! Crazy. You all cant understand it, man. It's like if French rescued their woman kidnapped and Americans killed her when she was about to get the airplane to come back to France!
 

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2005, 07:50:12 PM »
Like I said man, Y Is a crooked letter that can't be made straight. 
 

acbaylove

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2005, 07:51:19 PM »
Yeah, thanx for understanding it, homie. I'm out to sleep. Peace.
 

Thirteen

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2005, 09:30:05 PM »
Rules Of Engagement say that if there is a threat or practice that is dangerous to the safety of others,  you have a number of choices depending on the situation... of the situation lets you warn them person...then you get to warn them first...with warning shots, lights hand signals....

if the threat persiststhen you are allowed the use of deadly force

vehicles in iraq are considered a threat because everyone knows they can be made into bombs... there's even a chart that shows how far the blast radious will reach for each kind of vehicle...

anyways, the shots fired after the vehicle stopped falls under the part that says you do not have to cease fire until you know for sure the threat has been stopped... so just because a vehicle stops means that everything is going to be ok...

so far the article justifies the kind of force used...of course somethings might not be true but for now, it's the italians fault for being careless in a high security area
 

Matrix Heart

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2005, 10:04:15 PM »
Haha she was freed not rescued, what were they running from again ? lol  ;D
 

*Jamal*

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2005, 12:03:25 AM »
What do some of the bigots on here say all the time?... Oh yea... "consequence of war", "shit happens", "it's okay, it's well worth it"...
 

acbaylove

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2005, 02:26:04 AM »
Haha she was freed not rescued, what were they running from again ? lol  ;D

Ok, freed. I'm not english. They were running from the terrorists, whatchu think? That area wasnt safe.
 

acbaylove

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2005, 02:34:50 AM »
Rules Of Engagement say that if there is a threat or practice that is dangerous to the safety of others,  you have a number of choices depending on the situation... of the situation lets you warn them person...then you get to warn them first...with warning shots, lights hand signals....

if the threat persiststhen you are allowed the use of deadly force

vehicles in iraq are considered a threat because everyone knows they can be made into bombs... there's even a chart that shows how far the blast radious will reach for each kind of vehicle...

anyways, the shots fired after the vehicle stopped falls under the part that says you do not have to cease fire until you know for sure the threat has been stopped... so just because a vehicle stops means that everything is going to be ok...

so far the article justifies the kind of force used...of course somethings might not be true but for now, it's the italians fault for being careless in a high security area

You know what's strange? That it wasnt a common car, or a camion. It was 3 vehicles of Italian Army. And it all happened in 10 seconds. From the article it looks like it happened in 10 minutes! Naw. It was in 10 seconds. They were running, trying to find the way to go to the Airport. It was dark, somebody shooted at them. They probably said: "Damn, continue! It's a trap", and 10 seconds later it was all done. Now i'm not saying Americans intentionally wanted to kill them. It's a mistake. Shit happens, and everything. But still it's hard to accept it.
 

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2005, 02:40:58 AM »
But still it's hard to accept it.

LOL. 1 dead Italian is hard to accept, but thousands of Iraqis being killed is okay.... 
 

acbaylove

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2005, 04:44:41 AM »
But still it's hard to accept it.

LOL. 1 dead Italian is hard to accept, but thousands of Iraqis being killed is okay....

I never said it, so why are you laughing at it? The death of a man who saved another woman's life is never right. No matter if he is a terrorist, a civil, an italian, a hero, a criminal or an american; black, white or yellow. Italians didnt fight this war, you should have known this. Italians never killed a single Iraqi guy. But we've lost about 30 human lifes in Iraq, trying to help them. Doctors, journalists, Italian Police, Diplomats. And this is just another victim. They freed a journalist (leftwing anti-war, so now you know) who thanked Iraqi for her treatment while she was kidnapped as soon as she returned in Italy, this morning, and the second thing she said was to get out of Iraq cause Iraqi just want to be free from occupying forces. A strong political message against the war and pro-Iraqi. They didnt shot a Marine, man! They didnt shot people who fought the war against Iraqi. It was a Marine who shot them civils. They werent strapped, they were diplomats and members of SISME, like i said (our 007). And it's fucked up no matter from which perspective you see it. I understand you are sad about all the deaths of innocents.. well.. this one was just another innocent killed. There's nothing to laugh.
 

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2005, 04:57:54 AM »
if the americans were cooperating on the rescue mission then they are totally to blame for not communicating to the check point the Italian convoy was due to pass through.

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

acbaylove

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2005, 05:08:34 AM »
if the americans were cooperating on the rescue mission then they are totally to blame for not communicating to the check point the Italian convoy was due to pass through.

We're talking about 007's man, so they'll never admit it anyway. Both sides. Remember one of them got shot in the chest, but he refused to go to the Hospital cause he "doesnt exist" (if you know what i mean..) and we dont even know his name yet. We only know the name of the guy dead, cause he was the boss who directed all those missions, he was a diplomat, not just a 007. We will never know what really happened, cause it's all political now. When 007 are involved, it's always like that.
 

acbaylove

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Re: Shit! Americans shot an Italian hostage in Iraq. 1 dead, 3 injured
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2005, 05:51:58 AM »
SHOCKING NEWS!

Giuliana Sgrena's boyfriend just talked to the media. He said Giuliana is still recovering (she needs another surgery to remove a bullet), but she explained him what happened. She said they were 700 meters away from the Airport -just 15 seconds away with the car-, in a "supposed-to-be-safe" zone. They were talking live on the phone with Italian Ministry of Defence when the shit happened. Americans knew about the mission, and italians too, in fact an Airplane was ready to flight them back to Italy in the Airport. But something went wrong. After a curve, italians saw a big light and americans shooted 400 rifles on them. It wasnt a real check point, since nobody knew there was one over there (they moved it there some minutes before, you know.. sometimes they move their check points, expecially in the night). One man got killed trying to save the journalist, 3 others (including the hostage) got shot and injured. Americans approached their cars, confiscated their phones (they were still on the phone with the Ministry) and waited for more instructions several minutes. They didnt even sent the victims to the Hospital, since they didnt understand they were italians till after some minutes (wtf?). After that, they understood the mistake, and they sent the italians to the Hospital. It was too late for one of them. One of the refused to go to the Hospital, since he was a 007. Now Italian Police has opened an investigation cause Americans confiscated their phones and they didnt sent the victims to the Hospital as soon as possible. Plus italians were all experts who knew Iraq very well, so it's impossible they just didnt stop at a check point (they passed 2-3 other check points before that one). Now that's a really fucked up situation.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2005, 06:05:34 AM by Antonio »
 

Thirteen

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Re: Shocking update on the Italian killed by Americans in Iraq.
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2005, 10:35:30 AM »
cell phones have been used to remote activate bombs in iraq... i'd confiscate them too

one lesser known fact is once in awhile the US military will dial every cell phone in iraq randomly to try to make the bombs explode prematurely
 

acbaylove

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Re: Shocking update on the Italian killed by Americans in Iraq.
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2005, 10:49:43 AM »
cell phones have been used to remote activate bombs in iraq... i'd confiscate them too

Yeah me too, probably. Obviously Americans did it cause they thought someone was attacking them. But it's fucked up what happened. Allies were there, shot and killed, trying to explain the situation. Terrible death. That's all.