Italy disputes U.S. shooting account

[acbaylove]

* READ INSIDE FOR MORE INFOS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED *

I dont have an article for it yet, but it's totally fucked up!

Italian SISME (our 007's) rescued our journalist, Giuliana Sgrena, from Iraqi terrorists this afternood. She was there from 1 month, they kidnapped her. They were in a car, driving to Baghdad. But Americans shoted on the car. A member of our SISME got killed, 2 other members were injured, and Giuliana Sgrena got injured too, they shot her on her shoulders (maybe they hit a lung).

Totally fucked up. I have no words to describe it.

[acbaylove]

U.S. troops wound freed Italian, kill bodyguard

Friday, March 4, 2005 Posted: 4:29 PM EST (2129 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena, freed after one month of captivity, was wounded and one of her bodyguards was killed when U.S. troops shot at her car near a Baghdad checkpoint Friday night, multinational officials said.

According to a multinational forces statement, the car approached the checkpoint at high speed about 9 p.m. (1 p.m. ET)

U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."

The statement said the other wounded person was a man who was treated at the scene but refused to go to the hospital.

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi told reporters that Sgrena, 56, was in a car with three Italian security officers. (Full story)

Nicola Calipari was shielding Sgrena when he was killed, Berlusconi said.

Sgrena told Italian officials that she has a splinter in her left shoulder and will have minor surgery, Berlusconi said.

Berlusconi said he called U.S. Ambassador to Italy Mel Sembler to his office for an explanation of the shooting.

Sgrena, a reporter for Il Manifesto, was kidnapped outside a Baghdad mosque February 4.

Earlier Friday, attackers killed an Iraqi police chief, multinational forces officials said.

Col. Ghaib Hadab Zarib, the al-Budair police chief, was found dead near his home, about 45 kilometers (28 miles) east of Diwaniya, authorities said.

The gunmen shot him using an assault rifle and fled in a car, officials said.

One woman apparently was wounded in the attack.

On Thursday, gunmen tried to assassinate another police chief.

Col. Mou'ness Saeed, chief of al-Mouqdad police station in Kirkuk, was standing outside his car in southern Kirkuk with his guards late Thursday when gunmen opened fire from a vehicle driving by, Kirkuk police Chief Maj. Gen. Torhan Abdul Rahman said. The incident was the third assassination attempt on Saeed.

One of Saeed's guards was killed and a second critically wounded, but Saeed was unharmed.

Also Thursday, bombers struck two Iraqi security targets, killing five police officers near the Interior Ministry in Baghdad and another person in front of a police headquarters in Baquba, authorities said.

Insurgents ignited two explosive-laden vehicles near the Interior Ministry within minutes of each other, police said, after guards had stopped the vehicles. Another seven people were wounded.

In the Baquba incident, a suicide bomber detonated his car outside a headquarters for Iraqi emergency police, killing one person and wounding a dozen others, police and hospital sources said.

The attack appeared to target a convoy of Mudhafar Shahab Jiburi, chief of the police agency in Diyala province, police spokesman Sattar al-Karkhi said.

In response to recent insurgent attacks, interim Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi extended a state of emergency throughout the country for 30 days, his office said Thursday.

In a separate incident in Baghdad, an Iraqi army patrol fired on a vehicle as it approached a traffic control point. The vehicle and a vehicle behind it both exploded.

The incident is under investigation, said a spokesman for the U.S. Army 3rd Infantry Division, who offered no other details.

www.cnn.com

[Rampant]

Dont take this the wrong way, but its sort of the italians fault.

Everyday americans who control the checkpoints are afraid for their lives that a car might have a bomb in it. The US military (according to the article) gave ample warning to this car (carrying the freed hostage) to stop at the checkpoint.

So when a car is speeding up to a checkpoint, and not obeying your warnings.....what are you supposed to do? Stand aside and hope this car is safe and not carrying a bomb?

[acbaylove]

Dont take this the wrong way, but its sort of the italians fault.

Everyday americans who control the checkpoints are afraid for their lives that a car might have a bomb in it. The US military (according to the article) gave ample warning to this car (carrying the freed hostage) to stop at the checkpoint.

So when a car is speeding up to a checkpoint, and not obeying your warnings.....what are you supposed to do? Stand aside and hope this car is safe and not carrying a bomb?

Man i understand what you mean, but it's just a mistake. There's no justification. They were running from terrorists to the Bagdad Airport to save Giuliana Sgrena, and Americans shot 400 times against their cars!!! 400 times, man!

P.S. Italian version differs from the ones on that article anyway.
P.P.S. Bush apologized already. But Berlusconi is litterally furious.

[Rampant]

U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."

First of all the article never mentions (400 rounds) being fired at the car. Second it never mentions that after the car was stopped they continued to fire on it.

but if that is the case that they continued to fire on the car after it was stopped, then that is messed up.

[acbaylove]

Man honestly how can you pretend the truth being said by Americans in this situation? That's just a quick article written by a journalist who simply reported the first version of Americans about the incident. Think about it: if Bush apologized to Berlusconi and Italians, if U.S. Ambassador is from more than a hour with Berlusconi trying to explain him what happened.. and if Americans opened an investigation to understand what happened.. then it's not an easy situation. And that's the second time. Some months ago friendly-fire incident involving Italians, American soldiers in northern Iraq shot at a car carrying the Italian official heading up U.S. efforts to recover Iraq's looted antiquities. Pietro Cordone, the top Italian diplomat in Iraq, was unhurt, but his Iraqi translator was killed. Fucked up. Anyway that versione (300-400 rifles, execution) was said by Giuliana Sgrena's boyfriend live on tv. He was there.

[Thirteen]

maybe the italians should learn no means no

[Trauma-san]

Yeah, I heard about this earlier! Talking about some trigger-happy motherfuckers.  Crazy. 

[acbaylove]

maybe the italians should learn no means no

Please post some mature shit or shut the fuck up. I'm totally pro-USA, and if you check my previous posts in this section you'll notice it. I'm not here to diss Americans or to speculate about it. But what happened cant be simply reduced to a "no means no". It was night, and it's a fact Americans shoots to everything that moves, in the night. Even animals. They've killed Americans too, before "us". Civils. Everybody that moves. But in this situation, it wasnt just "something". It was the whole Italian convoy with 3 cross country vehicles of Italian Army and 1 car with journalists. They shot at our vehicles! 300-400 rifles. One guy, our boss of secret investigation, got killed. Another one is hit and is risking to die. Another one got shot in the leg. And Giuliana Sgrena is under surgery cause she got hit in her left shoulder. Damn man!! They shot at the whole Italian convoy!!!!!!!!!!! How can you shot at a convoy of 3 cross country vehicles and a car with a big ITALIAN flag on the coffer. They simply shot cause it was dark, and they didnt see shit. But that's not a good reason to kill a "hero" and almost kill other 3 person. Expecially when Americans were co-operating with us in the mission to resque the journalist. No excuse. Somebody gotta pay for it.

[Trauma-san]

It's an accident, man.  A fucked up situation that was destined to go bad.  Now people are dead, senseless violence with no answers.

I heard a good one the other day.

Somebody asks the word "Why?"

and they get "Y is a crooked letter than can never be made straight".

And that's the truth of it, right?  There's no answer! I can't explain to you anythign that will help you at all with this Antonio.  There's a big war going on in the middle east, like there's always been a big war going on somewhere, and some people who were only trying to help (the Italians) got killed, by some other people who thought they were helping (The Americans).  It's such a fucked up situation, it's crooked and it can never be made straight.  There's no answers, when you die you still won't understand what the fuck happened today. 

[acbaylove]

I know, it's sad. Tonight it's like if they killed Spiderman, or Superman. You know, a hero. The guy who died was the one who rescued 2 other italians kidnapped (two women, maybe you remember that) and 3 other italian bodyguards kidnapped, who worked for an Iraqui society. He rescued Giuliana too. And when they shot to them, he was shielding her, and he got killed instead of her. It's hard to accept it's an American 20 years old "poor" guy who killed him like that. It's actually scaring. Shit happens, but this shit is terrible. The whole Nation was celebrating the fact they rescued Giuliana. They announced it on Al Jazzeera and here, on TV. Everybody was celebrating. Then the sad news. Giuliana is in the Hospital now. She's having a surgery to remove a bullet. The "hero" who saved her is dead. Another man is in critical conditions. And it was all over, man! A month of nightmares were over!!!!!!!!!! Till this shit happened! They were 15 mins away from the Airport! Crazy. You all cant understand it, man. It's like if French rescued their woman kidnapped and Americans killed her when she was about to get the airplane to come back to France!

[Trauma-san]

Like I said man, Y Is a crooked letter that can't be made straight. 

[acbaylove]

Yeah, thanx for understanding it, homie. I'm out to sleep. Peace.

[Thirteen]

Rules Of Engagement say that if there is a threat or practice that is dangerous to the safety of others,  you have a number of choices depending on the situation... of the situation lets you warn them person...then you get to warn them first...with warning shots, lights hand signals....

if the threat persiststhen you are allowed the use of deadly force

vehicles in iraq are considered a threat because everyone knows they can be made into bombs... there's even a chart that shows how far the blast radious will reach for each kind of vehicle...

anyways, the shots fired after the vehicle stopped falls under the part that says you do not have to cease fire until you know for sure the threat has been stopped... so just because a vehicle stops means that everything is going to be ok...

so far the article justifies the kind of force used...of course somethings might not be true but for now, it's the italians fault for being careless in a high security area

[Matrix Heart]

Haha she was freed not rescued, what were they running from again ? lol