Author Topic: another Christian reads the Quran  (Read 444 times)

rafsta

  • Guest
another Christian reads the Quran
« on: May 10, 2005, 09:10:23 AM »
Unlike the Bible, the Quran is not a collection of books or stories, but a collation of utterances supposed to have come from Allah through Mohammed. Consequently it is very repetitive - so much so that it can start to feel hypnotic after reading a lot at once.

The Quran begins by saying that we can all live together in peace, and sounds like universalism (all religions are one type thinking). However it very soon becomes apparent that this is not so. Islam is a very exclusive religion. Only muslims are accepted.

At the heart of Christianity is Jesus. Or put another way, Jesus is the heart of Christianity. The Quran does not say very much about him. Most of his life is skipped, and what is recorded is very much different to the Bible and reads like some-one wanted to deliberately minimise and downgrade his importance.

The Quran states that just minutes after being born Jesus made an eloquent speech in which he strongly iterates that he is a muslim.
This directly contradicts the biblical accounts, in which the birth of Jesus is heralded by others as the fulfilment of prophecy and he does not make any speeches.

The death of Jesus is not recorded in the Quran - it is not believed that he died. While this can appear to be an attempt to make him appear very holy, it is really about removing the central message of the gospel. It also fits with Mohammed's agenda of using arms and force. A prophet who was slain by the opposition was not a role model he wanted to put in front of people. He was looking for recruits who were willing to fight to achieve or defend his objectives.

There are a number of changes to biblical stories in the Quran. It reads like a type of plagiarism, in which characters and story outlines have been taken from elsewhere and then amended to suit the motives and designs of the author. An example of this is changing the story of Isaac and Ishmael. In the Quran it is Ishmael who becomes the chosen one, and thus those descended from him are the chosen people. The Jews are referred to as "the people of the book", and it is purported that they did not obey Allah - therefore they are not chosen and if they do not convert to Islam will suffer a dire eternal fate.

This leads to another interesting point. For while there are those who may find descriptions of hell in the Bible difficult, the descriptions of those who are "thrown face first" into the fire in the Quran are far worse. Christians and Jews are especially singled out in connection with this.

The story of Joseph is very altered. In the Quran he is not thrown into jail after being falsely accused of attempted rape as the Bible relates. The Quran has him immediately vindicated and all the women of the court apologise to him. Again Mohammed did not want a story in which a man appears denigrated or without victory at any time. The parallel theme of women being innately untrustworthy and irresponsible runs throughout the book. Women are both idolised as pillars of virtue on the one hand, and viewed as troublemakers who must not be trusted on the other. Thus the Quran states that a husband should beat his wife for "trouble-making". The Quran does not contain the women of faith found in the Bible. There are no Ruths, Esthers, Deborahs, or Marys of Magdala in Islam.

It is known that Mohammed married a much older widow, and that he had twelve wives. It is not difficult to see how his own predispositions are added into the Quran, so that a man may have more than one wife - the Qu'ran specifies he may have up to four wives. Or as a colleague said to me, "so it was O.K. for men to be lustful then".

My biggest question in reading the Quran was whether or not it supported jihad in the way we have seen it expressed through terrorism. I had heard leaders of nations, including the US, saying it does not. In fact, it does. There are passages which advance self-defence. There are also passages that advance offensive measures against anyone opposing Islam, which Mohammed was spreading through force and manipulation. Muslims are told to fight opponents of Islam "wherever they are". The demands on his followers were extreme. The Quran allows for two options in conflict - victory or death. Surrender is unacceptable, and is a sin against Allah. In other words, a man must fight on even if the mission is suicidal. A martyr will go to paradise. It isn't hard to see how this has been developed by terrorists in the modern day context.

http://allthings2all.blogspot.com/2004/09/why-i-read-quran.html
 

rafsta

  • Guest
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2005, 09:12:27 AM »
Infinite, how can you worship a false God ? how can you study a book that a man created to help him wage war and helped him create dedicated soldiers ?
 

rafsta

  • Guest
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2005, 09:35:33 AM »
more importantly, how can you support a book which condones violence ?

follow your own beliefs, not some book written by some dude.
 

ZILLA THA GOODFELLA

  • Muthafuckin' Don!
  • *****
  • Posts: 6917
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Karma: -97
  • www.servnu151.com + www.turfdout.com
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2005, 10:04:24 AM »
haha I already knew every word of that article, I just don't like arguing about this shit no more, you'll never see the end of it with Muslims.

REGGAE MEETS THE WEST BAY MIXTAPE IN STORES NOW !!

TRENCH TOWN HUSTLAZ - YOUNG N HUNGRY
COMING IN 2008.
FEATURING: SAN QUINN, THE JACKA (MOB FIGAZ), DUBEE, TELLY MAC (THA GAMBLAZ) MR. KEE, 10SION, LIL RIC, PROHOEZAK, ARSEN & MORE.

www.myspace.com/trenchtownhustlaz

YAYYYYYYYYYYYYY AREAAAAAAAAAAA.. WEST OF THE WATER! COME SEE US!!
 

J Bananas

  • Guest
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2005, 12:03:11 PM »
Quote
follow your own beliefs, not some book written by some dude.
thats a pretty bold statement coming from a Christian, maybe even too bold.
 

rafsta

  • Guest
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2005, 01:12:18 PM »
Quote
follow your own beliefs, not some book written by some dude.
thats a pretty bold statement coming from a Christian, maybe even too bold.

i am not a practising christian. i was raised in a highly Catholic family, i was forced to go to church every Sunday until i hit 17.

i am a believer in God, i am a believer in Jesus, i respect the bible. But you dont see me quoting every second paragraph on a hip-hop forum. i follow my own rules, and i dont swear by the bible, i agree with alot of it, but even without it i would be the same person. thats the difference between me an Abdul.
 

ToOoOoN!!!

Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2005, 03:08:34 PM »
zZzZz
 

TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96'

  • Shot Caller
  • Muthafuckin' Don!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13819
  • Thanked: 450 times
  • Karma: -1625
  • Permanent Resident Flat Erth 1996 Pre-Sept. 13th
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2005, 04:23:05 PM »

This leads to another interesting point. For while there are those who may find descriptions of hell in the Bible difficult, the descriptions of those who are "thrown face first" into the fire in the Quran are far worse. Christians and Jews are especially singled out in connection with this.


The Noble Qu'ran instructs Muslims that closest to them are the Christians!  The Qu'ran encourages Muslims to establish peaceful relationships with non-Muslims who do not act in aggression to Muslims.  In the cases where Allah is condemning Christians or Jews he is condemning specifically the Christians and Jews who fight and commit transgressions against the Muslims.  In Islam, Christianity and Judaism are legitimate religions, and Allah will not let their deeds go unaccounted. 

Qu'ran: 3:19, 85) This is God's final message to humanity. All of God's prophets have come to this world, and all the scriptures have been delivered. The time has come to purify and consolidate all the messages delivered by God's prophets into one message, and to proclaim that henceforth, there is only one religion acceptable to God - "Submission"

(5:69, 2:62)  Surely, those who believe who are Jewish, the Christians and the converts,
(1) believes in God
(2) and believes in the hereafter
(3) leads a righteous life
will recieve their recompense and reward and they have nothing to fear.

Ofcourse, there is no denying, Islam does allow Muslims permission to make Jihad under certain conditions....

"You shall prepare for them all the power you can muster, and all the equipment you can mobilize, that you may frighten the enemies of GOD, your enemies, as well as others who are not known to you; GOD knows them. Whatever you spend in the cause of GOD will be repaid to you generously, without the least injustice.If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." (8:60-61)

Self-defense involves oppression, aggression and tyranny; Islam tolerates the use of war in these cases.

"Permission  (to fight) is granted to those who are being persecuted, since injustice has befallen them, and GOD is certainly able to support them. They were evicted from their homes unjustly, for no reason other than saying, "Our Lord is GOD." If it were not for GOD's supporting of some people against others, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and masjids - where the name of GOD is commemorated frequently - would have been destroyed. Absolutely, GOD supports those who support Him. GOD is Powerful, Almighty."(22:39-40).

 

The story of Joseph is very altered. In the Quran he is not thrown into jail after being falsely accused of attempted rape as the Bible relates. The Quran has him immediately vindicated and all the women of the court apologise to him. Again Mohammed did not want a story in which a man appears denigrated or without victory at any time. The parallel theme of women being innately untrustworthy and irresponsible runs throughout the book. Women are both idolised as pillars of virtue on the one hand, and viewed as troublemakers who must not be trusted on the other.

Joseph (Yusuf) does go to prison!  All the Prophets faced numerous trials!

12:33
Yusuf said: "O My Lord! The prison is more to my liking than that to which they invite me".
12:35
Then it occurred to the men
After they had seen the Signs,
(That it was best)
To imprison him for a time
12:36
Now with him there came into the prison two young men."


 the Qu'ran specifies he may have up to four wives. Or as a colleague said to me, "so it was O.K. for men to be lustful then".


You know what's funny is that Christian preacher Jerry Fallwell made the same argument in a debate with Ahmed Deedat.  Then a month later he was arrested in a hotel room with about a dozen hookers!  Islam is logical and practical and the life of a Muslim is one that can be lived without hypocrisy.  A few Muslims do marry more than one woman, and it is accepted by their wives, and this is done in the open, not in secret.  Yet a FEW MILLION CHRISTIANS COMMIT ADULTRY AND FORNICATION!  BUT ALLAH IS WATCHFUL!



My First Officially Schedule Rap Battle on Stage as an undercard to the undercard match



(btw, Earth 🌎 is not a spinning water ball)
 

King Tech Quadafi

  • His Royal Highness
  • Muthafuckin' Don!
  • *****
  • Posts: 7297
  • Karma: -221
  • i think you betta recognize...
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2005, 08:57:14 PM »
This Captain character is a retard......
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

rafsta

  • Guest
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2005, 01:28:38 AM »
This Captain character is a retard......

thanks buddy i try...
 

rafsta

  • Guest
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2005, 01:35:18 AM »

This leads to another interesting point. For while there are those who may find descriptions of hell in the Bible difficult, the descriptions of those who are "thrown face first" into the fire in the Quran are far worse. Christians and Jews are especially singled out in connection with this.


The Noble Qu'ran instructs Muslims that closest to them are the Christians!  The Qu'ran encourages Muslims to establish peaceful relationships with non-Muslims who do not act in aggression to Muslims.  In the cases where Allah is condemning Christians or Jews he is condemning specifically the Christians and Jews who fight and commit transgressions against the Muslims.  In Islam, Christianity and Judaism are legitimate religions, and Allah will not let their deeds go unaccounted. 

Qu'ran: 3:19, 85) This is God's final message to humanity. All of God's prophets have come to this world, and all the scriptures have been delivered. The time has come to purify and consolidate all the messages delivered by God's prophets into one message, and to proclaim that henceforth, there is only one religion acceptable to God - "Submission"

(5:69, 2:62)  Surely, those who believe who are Jewish, the Christians and the converts,
(1) believes in God
(2) and believes in the hereafter
(3) leads a righteous life
will recieve their recompense and reward and they have nothing to fear.

Ofcourse, there is no denying, Islam does allow Muslims permission to make Jihad under certain conditions....

"You shall prepare for them all the power you can muster, and all the equipment you can mobilize, that you may frighten the enemies of GOD, your enemies, as well as others who are not known to you; GOD knows them. Whatever you spend in the cause of GOD will be repaid to you generously, without the least injustice.If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." (8:60-61)

Self-defense involves oppression, aggression and tyranny; Islam tolerates the use of war in these cases.
so the religion supports 911...

Quote
"Permission  (to fight) is granted to those who are being persecuted, since injustice has befallen them, and GOD is certainly able to support them. They were evicted from their homes unjustly, for no reason other than saying, "Our Lord is GOD." If it were not for GOD's supporting of some people against others, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and masjids - where the name of GOD is commemorated frequently - would have been destroyed. Absolutely, GOD supports those who support Him. GOD is Powerful, Almighty."(22:39-40).

The story of Joseph is very altered. In the Quran he is not thrown into jail after being falsely accused of attempted rape as the Bible relates. The Quran has him immediately vindicated and all the women of the court apologise to him. Again Mohammed did not want a story in which a man appears denigrated or without victory at any time. The parallel theme of women being innately untrustworthy and irresponsible runs throughout the book. Women are both idolised as pillars of virtue on the one hand, and viewed as troublemakers who must not be trusted on the other.

Joseph (Yusuf) does go to prison!  All the Prophets faced numerous trials!

12:33
Yusuf said: "O My Lord! The prison is more to my liking than that to which they invite me".
12:35
Then it occurred to the men
After they had seen the Signs,
(That it was best)
To imprison him for a time
12:36
Now with him there came into the prison two young men."
Quote

Quote
this doesnt change the point that then the women of the jury then gave him a full apology, to further downplay women...


 the Qu'ran specifies he may have up to four wives. Or as a colleague said to me, "so it was O.K. for men to be lustful then".


You know what's funny is that Christian preacher Jerry Fallwell made the same argument in a debate with Ahmed Deedat.  Then a month later he was arrested in a hotel room with about a dozen hookers!  Islam is logical and practical and the life of a Muslim is one that can be lived without hypocrisy.  A few Muslims do marry more than one woman, and it is accepted by their wives, and this is done in the open, not in secret.  Yet a FEW MILLION CHRISTIANS COMMIT ADULTRY AND FORNICATION!  BUT ALLAH IS WATCHFUL!
Quote

Who gives a shit about Jerry Fallwell ? it was his choice to do it.... the point which you once again missed is that Islam supports adultery, because someone is a christian and commits adultery doesnt mean that the religion supports it, its up to the indivivual not to obey the law of God...

Seeing as i completely just went over your head i'll explain it in laymans terms... Mohammed had more than 4 wives, he was a sinner that was considered a prophet ? and not only that he said its ok to have 4 wives... so adultery is acceptable in islam, it was one of the 10 commandments, "thy shall not covet thy wife"...
« Last Edit: May 11, 2005, 01:41:34 AM by Captain »
 

King Tech Quadafi

  • His Royal Highness
  • Muthafuckin' Don!
  • *****
  • Posts: 7297
  • Karma: -221
  • i think you betta recognize...
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2005, 01:57:35 PM »
This Captain character is a retard......

thanks buddy i try...

no u dont. u actually think you have a point, when in actuality u dont. This is what classifies you as a retard
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

rafsta

  • Guest
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2005, 02:00:44 PM »
This Captain character is a retard......

thanks buddy i try...

no u dont. u actually think you have a point, when in actuality u dont. This is what classifies you as a retard

i'll keep that in mind.
 

Don Jacob

  • Muthafuckin' Don!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13827
  • Karma: -136
  • don status, bitch
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2005, 04:21:06 AM »
the one point i felt was the one about how the quran uses the same stories from the bible/tora then changes them


R.I.P.  To my Queen and Princess 07-05-09
 

rafsta

  • Guest
Re: another Christian reads the Quran
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2005, 11:40:21 AM »
if it then goes to say its impossible to accomodate 4 wives why does it state it in the first place ?

it just allows for mis-interpretation and abuse.