American Motherfuckers

[Woodrow]

That's completely out of line. You can't do that to someone's holy scriptures. I'll treat a Quran like a Bible and vice versa.

I agree with you, but unfortunately, it’s not like that in the real world...

Remember when Palestinian terrorists took over the Church of the Nativity? They used Bibles as toilet paper, and left behind booby traps at one of the holiest sites in Christianity.

Here's an account of Muslims "respecting" Josephs Tomb:
http://www.shechem.org/kyos/d3.jpg

Remember when the Taliban destroyed those giant Buddah's in Afghanistan?

Where were the riots when these things occured?

[Ant]

Turns out Newsweek got it all wrong...

It's a shame that shoddy reporting caused this much desturction.

Yeah agreed.  It's a shame when lies and falsehoods cause large amounts of destruction.  Unfortunately republicans only feel that way when they find lies that disagree with their worldview.  WMD and ties to terrorism are convenient lies that bother you little, but find a factual error that doesn't support your worldview and hear the GOP chorus sing of the need to regulate the media.

You forget or ignore that the news media helped spread the lies and inaccuracies put forth by the Bush Administration on Iraq.  These lies have consquences that we are still dealing with to this day.  The last few weeks were some of the most violent weeks Iraq has experienced. Becuz of the lies you supported the US lost $300 billion, 1,600 lives, a few thousands limbs, and in the process weakened its economy, weakened its military, embarassed itself in the eyes of the world, and further enraged the muslim population. 

Yet there is no outrage from the right, instead we only find arrogant support of an incompetent administration by bigotted individuals that can't tell the difference between picking sides in politics and choosing their favorite baseball team.

Basing an extremely inflammatory news item on a single source without any corroborating evidence, affirming witnesses, or any stated caveats regarding the possible unreliability of such a piece, strikes me as a bit sketchy. And now their single source suggests that he might have been wrong?

Yeah. That’s JUST like the Iraq war! Good analogy!

1. Newsweek had corraborating evidence.  A Human Rights Watch Report cited American mistreatment of the Qu'ran in October 2004.

http://hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/gitmo1004/gitmo1004.pdf

It was impossible to pray because initially we did not know the direction to pray, but also given that we couldn't move and the harassment from the guards, it was simply not feasible. The behaviour of the guards towards our religious practices as well as the Koran was also, in my view, designed to cause us as much distress as possible. They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet and generally disrespect it. It is clear to me that the conditions in our cells and our general treatment were designed by the officers in charge of the interrogation process to "soften us up"'.
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:cBAdCUQ2aOsJ:www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/docs/Gitmo-compositestatementFINAL23july04.pdf+attorneys+Guantanamo+Koran+pages+ripped&hl=en&client=safari

In fact, Newsweek wasn't even the first to break this story.  The Philadelphia Inquirer broke this story in January 2005. 


"Some detainees complained of religious humiliation, saying guards had defaced their copies of the Koran and, in one case, had thrown it in a toilet, said Kristine Huskey [an attorney in Washington, D.C.], who interviewed clients late last month."

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/nation/10685611.htm

I understand that it is embarassing to hear Bush talk all day about spreading freedom only to find out that he is spreading hatred of the American population, but in the real world this story was only the straw that broke the camel's back.  People got upset over it because the animosity towards the US had been building for months. 

2. The analogy has to do with the republican attitude towards misinformation.  Which is basically, scream at the top of your lungs if something questionable discredits your party, remain silent while we rush to war on questionable intelligence, and shift the blame all day as that intelligence breaks down completely and embarasses our entire country.  If you care so much about lies causing death and destruction why do you continue to support the misinformation peddled by Bush and Co? 
 
If you believe in values like responsibility and accountability why don't you extend them those you support as well as those you oppose.  Like I said you treat politics like its a sporting event except you don't even expect both sides to play by the same rules. 

[Woodrow]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/17/newsweek.quran/index.html

Newsweek retracts Quran story

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Newsweek magazine issued a retraction Monday of a May 9 report on the alleged desecration of the Quran at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The report, which said American interrogators put copies of the Quran on toilets or in one case, flushed one down a toilet, was blamed for anti-American riots in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the Muslim world last week.

"Based on what we know now, we are retracting our original story that an internal military investigation had uncovered Quran abuse at Guantanamo Bay," Newsweek Editor Mark Whitaker said in a statement issued Monday afternoon.

Newsweek published the item in its May 9 issue. In the May 23 issue, it reported that its senior government source had backed away from his initial story, and Whitaker wrote that "we regret" that any part of the story was wrong. (Full story)

But the magazine did not completely disavow the story until Monday's statement from Whitaker. That followed remarks earlier in the day from Bush administration officials who called for a full retraction.

Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, and other officials applauded the retraction, but suggested Newsweek must go further.

"I think we should know what it is that caused this and how it happened," McCain said. "But I think we should all be aware, particularly the news media, of how volatile the situation is in some parts of the Middle East."

"I'm sure the story was exploited by religious extremists in the Middle East," McCain said. "But that doesn't change the fact that we have to have reliable and absolutely accurate stories, particularly on such a volatile issue."

McCain said the article had damaged U.S. efforts in the region but added that "there's been a lot of things that caused long-term, significant damage, including [the abuse of detainees by Americans at] Abu Ghraib [prison in Iraq] and the stories and pictures surrounding that terrible situation.

"But we have a war of ideals and ideas, and that is to sell democracy and freedom and tolerance to the world and the stories like these set us back," McCain said.

In an interview on the PBS "Newshour" Monday night, Whitaker said the problem stemmed from "one detail."

"There were other elements in this story that people are not concerned about," he told PBS. "This is the one detail everyone is concerned about, and we are prepared to retract that."

Senior White House officials applauded Newsweek's decision to retract the story but said the magazine will have to do more to repair the damage done.

"It's a good first step," said White House press secretary Scott McClellan.

McClellan said the magazine now has a responsibility to spread the word to the Muslim world that U.S. interrogators "treat the Quran with great care and respect."

Another official said it will take a sustained effort by Newsweek to "mitigate the fallout," also calling on the magazine to take steps to spread the word about its retraction to Muslims worldwide.

CNN confirmed at least four deaths last week stemming from riots in Jalalabad, Afghanistan. Newsweek reported rioting in Afghanistan and "throughout much of the Muslim world" last week had "cost at least 15 lives."

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the flap was a reminder that people "need to be very careful about what they say."

"People are dead, and that's unfortunate," Rumsfeld told reporters. "People need to be very careful about what they say just as people need to be careful about what they do."

Editor: 'Many elements' in riots
Whitaker disputed the notion the Newsweek report was the sole cause of the rioting that rocked eastern Afghanistan last week.

He said "many elements" contributed and noted that Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said last week the U.S. commander in Afghanistan put more emphasis on local politics than anti-American sentiment stirred by the magazine report.

"On the other hand, clearly, our report played a role, and for that we feel terrible," Whitaker said.

He said everyone at Newsweek "behaved professionally" in producing the report, and that the magazine went to the "extraordinary length" of showing the story to a Pentagon official for a response before publication.

"That official challenged other aspects of the story, but not the Quran detail," Whitaker said. He said no U.S. officials complained about the accuracy of the report for 11 days, until after the Afghan riots broke out.

The Pentagon said last week it was unable to corroborate any case in which interrogators at the U.S. Naval Station in Guantanamo Bay defiled the Muslim holy book.

"We can't find anything to substantiate the allegations that appeared in Newsweek," Myers told reporters Monday afternoon.

After a review of more than 25,000 documents, Myers said, investigators found only one incident recorded in the prison logs involving a Quran.

In that case, Myers said, a prisoner used pages from a Quran in an attempt to block a toilet as a protest. Even that incident was unconfirmed, he said.

"People have said, 'My goodness, why does it take so long for someone to come back with and have the actual facts?' " Rumsfeld said. "Well, it takes a long time to be truthful."

The original Newsweek article cited "sources" as saying that interrogators, "in an attempt to rattle suspects, flushed a Quran down a toilet."

But Newsweek said only a single source was used and that after the original article was published, the government source said he wasn't sure what he'd read about the desecration.

Whitaker told PBS the source was known to be credible and "in a position to know the things he was telling us."

Newsweek's article was not the first time allegations of Quran desecration at Guantanamo have surfaced, but others have come directly from detainees.

Diplomatic efforts
U.S. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher chided the magazine before Monday's retraction, saying "one would expect more than the kind of correction we've seen so far."

U.S. diplomats overseas were working the phones to try to spread the word about Newsweek's latest story, he said.

"We'll deal with it the same way we have been dealing with it -- by being transparent, up front and open about our policies and what our soldiers do," Boucher said.

State Department officials said it would be hard to undo the damage because of the already existing sense of anger and mistrust of the United States.

"People will believe the worst, even if it is wrong," one official said.

Afghan government spokesman Jawed Ludin said his government expresses "in the strongest terms our disapproval of Newsweek's approach to reporting which allowed them to run this story without proper examination beforehand."

Reviewing tactics
The U.S. military said Monday it must reach out to angry Afghans to ease tensions.

"We want to redouble our efforts to communicate with the Afghan people," said Army Col. Gary Cheek in Kabul. "We want to ensure there is trust and confidence in the U.S."

Cheek promised to re-evaluate U.S. military tactics being used in Afghanistan that have drawn criticism from Afghan officials, including President Hamid Karzai.

U.S. troops have been criticized for breaking into homes unannounced and for taking people into custody, sometimes on faulty intelligence.

Cheek also said the United States wants to engage Afghan religious leaders "to make sure they understand our true values."

CNN's Dana Bash, Ed Henry and Barbara Starr and journalist Nick Meo contributed to this report.

[Ant]

Again let me explain something more simply since you have a hard time putting 2 and 2 together.  You said specifically this story had "no corraborating evidence." That is the only point I ever argued against.  What you think the Newsweek retraction has to do with you being completely off base to suggest this story has no corraborating evidence is beyond me.  If you read my post above and my posts in other threads which I'm sure you've seen (altho I'm not sure if you actually read them since you apparently have a hard time reading anything that conflicts with your bigotted worldview) you would realize you were wrong. 

If you can't look reality in the face and admit you made an error don't even both responding.

[Woodrow]

Again let me explain something more simply since you have a hard time putting 2 and 2 together.  You said specifically this story had "no corraborating evidence." That is the only point I ever argued against.  What you think the Newsweek retraction has to do with you being completely off base to suggest this story has no corraborating evidence is beyond me.  If you read my post above and my posts in other threads which I'm sure you've seen (altho I'm not sure if you actually read them since you apparently have a hard time reading anything that conflicts with your bigotted worldview) you would realize you were wrong. 

If you can't look reality in the face and admit you made an error don't even both responding.

How does the word of terrorists back up anything thats been said?

There is no corroborating evidence. Look at the Sources you've posted.

In your haste to paint all conservatives as bigots, you take the word of TERRORISTS over that of the magazine that printed the reaction.

Here's what it comes down to:

Newsweek printed a retraction.

You can't deal with it and you post up quotes from terrorists to back up your flimsy assertion so you can feel better about your actions.

[ToOoOoN!!!]

i piss on the bible and i wipe my ass with the quran

[Fuck Your Existence]

i piss on the bible and i wipe my ass with the quran

want a gold star?

[Ant]

What a convenient world you live in when you can label everyone terrorists from afar.  You said the story had no corraborating evidence and blamed the Afghan riots entirely on Newsweek.  All I'm pointing out is that:

a) the story had corraborating evidence and in fact it wasn't even the first time the story was printed. Not only that, but Newsweek cleared the story with the Pentagon before going to print with it.

b) Its ridiculous to blame these riots entirely on Newsweek when the US goverment says they riots were initially occuring for reasons other than the Newsweek story, and knowing that this isn't even a new story. 

c) Its hypocritical to hold a news organization to a higher standard than the world's largest government.  Go ahead and criticize newsweek I don't care.  They are certainly deserving of criticism, but if you want to have standards and values you base your decision on apply them across the board. 

Time and time again you tried to pretend I'm arguing about the veracity of this story when that has never been the case. I don't read newsweek.  I don't care about newsweek as an organization.  And even more ironically the guy who wrote this story is the same guy who wrote a book blasting the hell out of Bill Clinton over Monica - so you can stop trying to pretend like this is the liberal media trying to attack Bush.

[Woodrow]

I've got no idea what you're arguing half the time. It changes from hour to hour after you get your talking points from your liberal blogs.

First you tried to compare the War in Iraq to a Newsweek printing a false story. You got shut down.

Then you tired to show that even though Newsweek retracted it's story, it was still true because terrorists had complained about the same issue.You got shut down.

Now you're claiming that you never argued the veracity of the story? Right. I guess I should just ignore this post?

1. Newsweek had corraborating evidence. A Human Rights Watch Report cited American mistreatment of the Qu'ran in October 2004.

In fact, Newsweek wasn't even the first to break this story. The Philadelphia Inquirer broke this story in January 2005.

So you never argued the story was incorrect, but you provide "evidence" backing it up?

 

[Ant]

Just to prove beyond a doubt that your an idiot one final time.  Read my first post.  I agreed with you that this storywas based on 'shoddy' evidence.  So why you spent this much time arguing that I've been trying to prove this story true is beyond me.  I've yet to do such a thing, but there is a difference between a story being true and a story being supported by additional evidence.  In practically every dispute there is supporting evidence for each side. You claimed there was no supporting evidence.  You were wrong.

And as far as you not being able to come to terms with the irony and hypocrisy of hear the GOP criticize anyone else for putting out misinformation that causes death and destruction well I'm sorry there is nothing I can apparently do to help you on that one.  Of course if there was some way for this to make sense to you well then it really wouldn't be fair for me to call you a bigot as often as I do.

[Thuglife]

Big fucking deal some fucking stupid books were burnt, they should be thankfull the americans didnt burn them. People these days are too fucking sensitive, fucking europeans

[notorious^q8I]

Muslims are fucking insane. Thousands and thousands of them are having violent protests because they think some American flushed a Koran down the toilet. Big fucking deal. In many of their countries, women aren't allowed to learn how to read or write, aren't allowed to vote, can't go out of the house without a man, etc. In many of their countries, Christians and other religious minorities aren't allowed to practice their religion, try to convert other people, etc. I know that in Saudi Arabia in order to be a citizen you have to be a Muslim, and it is illegal to celebrate Christmas in public. How come there is no outrage over those things? Which is worse.

Just more proof that Muslims are stupid as hell.

lol wtf r u talkin about??
that shit is only in afghanistan........ which is due to warfare fool
more ppl in muslim countries go to universities than in america... so my prediction in 30-40 years yall will be the ignorant mutha fuckaz ppl makin fun of

[Thuglife]

Muslims are fucking insane. Thousands and thousands of them are having violent protests because they think some American flushed a Koran down the toilet. Big fucking deal. In many of their countries, women aren't allowed to learn how to read or write, aren't allowed to vote, can't go out of the house without a man, etc. In many of their countries, Christians and other religious minorities aren't allowed to practice their religion, try to convert other people, etc. I know that in Saudi Arabia in order to be a citizen you have to be a Muslim, and it is illegal to celebrate Christmas in public. How come there is no outrage over those things? Which is worse.

Just more proof that Muslims are stupid as hell.

lol wtf r u talkin about??
that shit is only in afghanistan........ which is due to warfare fool
more ppl in muslim countries go to universities than in america... so my prediction in 30-40 years yall will be the ignorant mutha fuckaz ppl makin fun of

hahahahahhahahaha
ya this is why the middle east looks like it does. Only decent country in that region is Israel, that statistic about universities is just plain wrong, your stupid.

[7even]

Big fucking deal some fucking stupid books were burnt, they should be thankfull the americans didnt burn them. People these days are too fucking sensitive, fucking europeans

Hi there, dumbass! The problem is not that some books were burnt, the problem is that it's a direct disrespect towards the muslim religion, which will ultimately lead to heavy uproars and people will eventually (have already) die. If I was caught burning an american flag, I would never be able to get a green card or citizenship, and that is understandable. However, I just burnt a bit of cloth? There is more to that.

[Thuglife]

Big fucking deal some fucking stupid books were burnt, they should be thankfull the americans didnt burn them. People these days are too fucking sensitive, fucking europeans

Hi there, dumbass! The problem is not that some books were burnt, the problem is that it's a direct disrespect towards the muslim religion, which will ultimately lead to heavy uproars and people will eventually (have already) die. If I was caught burning an american flag, I would never be able to get a green card or citizenship, and that is understandable. However, I just burnt a bit of cloth? There is more to that.

buddy thats a retarded law
If you burn an american flag no one is gonna do shit cuz people in north america dont give a fuck.