Islam in America

[J @ M @ L]

JML lost another debate.

You gotta have a minimum IQ of 75 to come in this thread....mods...erase this chumps post

CWalker, learn how to read. You don't park in handicap parking spots when you see the signs, do you?

Anyways CWalker, your Polish pussy is still bloody from losing two arguments in a row to me, but keep your Communist ass away from me. I don't want the government thinking I'm affiliated with a new-age Stalin-Hitler crossbred faggot.

[Real American]

The day you can prove that western culture is not superior is the day you win that debate, moron.

[J @ M @ L]

The day you can prove that western culture is not superior is the day you win that debate, moron.

The argument was based on what you considered Western Civilization, and what you felt made it superior.... based on those two arguments at hand, you lost. Sorry Polski.

The only reason I called you out on it was because you were implying that WHITE people are superior to non-Whites, as is evident from you only considering "Europe, the U.S., Canada, and Australia" as Western Civilization.... I admitted the word had many definitions and asked you on what implications you were only associating the term with those places listed.... you failed to include Japan for a reason, they're not white. You are a racist faggot. Once again, the Communists fall victim to the Afghans. 

[Shallow]

Actually I didn't take your posts out of context, since I quoted them directly, and/or addressed everything within your posts. I even addressed your clarifications, so don't bring that.
"We were just arguing different things and misconceiving what the other meant."
All I can say is: Speak for yourself.

Once again, have a good day. Save yourself the trouble... you've been done... and since you admitted how stubborn you are, there really is no point for me to reply to you since you reach for straws due to your stubbornness.

But you are ignoring my clarifications. When I said it's hard to convert Christians and it's easy to grow when the country is Christian as I meant and stated that I was talking about devout Christians and forceful conversion.

When I say we are arguing different things I meant I was under the impression you were speaking from the point of view that Islam is better and that's why it didn't need forceful conversion, which I was wrong to assume, and you thought I was associating every bad thing Muslim conquerers did with Muhammad and him being a part of it, which you were wrong to asume.

No I didn't ignore any of your classifications. I addressed every argument you made, I addressed your clarifications, and I addressed the part where you made your corrections.
You said it's hard to convert Christians with FORCE... I said I agree, which would back my argument.
You said it's easy to grow when the country is Christian... my response was:
"I know the growth rate works in percentages, and you're missing the whole point, even though I've stated it time and time again. The point I was making by saying that more people are converting from Christianity to Islam each year in America/Europe is that: Don't you think the same could've been true back then in lands where the majority of the population was Christian?"

Ok, so you admit that you had wrong assumptions, I can accept that... but no I did not at any point believe that you were associating every bad thing Muslim conquerors did with Mohammed... I even used your quote at the beginning where you made the reference to the Roman Empire... and I specifically said "keep this in mind throughout the argument".

Then why did you keep bringing up later conquests of Muslims that had nothing to do with Muhammad and ask me if I thought he was apart of them? You went back and forth and you can't deny that. You brought up later conquests like Spain and India then criticized me for talking about them when it had nothing to do with Muhammad.


"The point I was making by saying that more people are converting from Christianity to Islam each year in America/Europe is that: Don't you think the same could've been true back then in lands where the majority of the population was Christian?"

No I don't because Christian society is far more open these days. I'm willing to bet that the converts these days are mostly non practicing and/or protestants. Back then the church had a much stronger rule and it was accepted by society to convert, which is what it's like now in Islamic society. Catholism is far more controlling of a Christian religion now and I'll bet there are way less catholics converting than protestants. I feel that if Islamic societies deemed it acceptable to convert then there would be just as many Muslims converting as there are Christians converting (per capita). If you disagree, I'd like to hear why?

[J @ M @ L]

Actually I didn't take your posts out of context, since I quoted them directly, and/or addressed everything within your posts. I even addressed your clarifications, so don't bring that.
"We were just arguing different things and misconceiving what the other meant."
All I can say is: Speak for yourself.

Once again, have a good day. Save yourself the trouble... you've been done... and since you admitted how stubborn you are, there really is no point for me to reply to you since you reach for straws due to your stubbornness.

But you are ignoring my clarifications. When I said it's hard to convert Christians and it's easy to grow when the country is Christian as I meant and stated that I was talking about devout Christians and forceful conversion.

When I say we are arguing different things I meant I was under the impression you were speaking from the point of view that Islam is better and that's why it didn't need forceful conversion, which I was wrong to assume, and you thought I was associating every bad thing Muslim conquerers did with Muhammad and him being a part of it, which you were wrong to asume.

No I didn't ignore any of your classifications. I addressed every argument you made, I addressed your clarifications, and I addressed the part where you made your corrections.
You said it's hard to convert Christians with FORCE... I said I agree, which would back my argument.
You said it's easy to grow when the country is Christian... my response was:
"I know the growth rate works in percentages, and you're missing the whole point, even though I've stated it time and time again. The point I was making by saying that more people are converting from Christianity to Islam each year in America/Europe is that: Don't you think the same could've been true back then in lands where the majority of the population was Christian?"

Ok, so you admit that you had wrong assumptions, I can accept that... but no I did not at any point believe that you were associating every bad thing Muslim conquerors did with Mohammed... I even used your quote at the beginning where you made the reference to the Roman Empire... and I specifically said "keep this in mind throughout the argument".

Then why did you keep bringing up later conquests of Muslims that had nothing to do with Muhammad and ask me if I thought he was apart of them? You went back and forth and you can't deny that. You brought up later conquests like Spain and India then criticized me for talking about them when it had nothing to do with Muhammad.


"The point I was making by saying that more people are converting from Christianity to Islam each year in America/Europe is that: Don't you think the same could've been true back then in lands where the majority of the population was Christian?"

No I don't because Christian society is far more open these days. I'm willing to bet that the converts these days are mostly non practicing and/or protestants. Back then the church had a much stronger rule and it was accepted by society to convert, which is what it's like now in Islamic society. Catholism is far more controlling of a Christian religion now and I'll bet there are way less catholics converting than protestants. I feel that if Islamic societies deemed it acceptable to convert then there would be just as many Muslims converting as there are Christians converting (per capita). If you disagree, I'd like to hear why?

Wow you really are the must subborn person... anyways, I'll address everything once again... as I always do, and we'll see what else you try to pull out next...

Did I bring up later conquests first or did you first mention your ancestors in Greece/Cyprus? Thank you.

I'm not even going to say that you're contradicting yourself this time (which you are), but I'll just show you one line and tell you that the sentence in itself is contradicting...

"Back then the church had a much stronger rule and it was accepted by society to convert, which is what it's like now in Islamic society....
I feel that if Islamic societies deemed it acceptable to convert...."

Please for the sake of semi-intelligent human beings, don't tell me that isn't contradicting. Seriously, do you even fucking read what you type? You keep coming with these retarded statements and when I tell you that you contradict yourself, you say "No I don't, you do". Seriously, I feel like I keep refrying beans here.

As for your last statement, that is a hypothetical statement not based upon any facts. I don't agree or disagree, and quite frankly, you seem to care more than I do.

If you really care about that, and want to know, don't ask me, but rather go and do some research to find how many Muslims are converting to Christianity in countries where there is no so-called "Islamic" government (America, Europe, etc). I don't have the information at hand.

[Shallow]

I brought up Greece before you specified the quote you used was about early Muslims. Then I dropped Greece, but you came back with Spain, India, etc.


I'm not just talking about Islamix Governement but society, meaning the family. A white kid who's family doesn't really go to church comes home and sys I want to be a Muslim he gets a "oh, that's odd, whatever". A Muslim kid does the same he gets a lot more than that. Now a Hispanic kid coming home to a Catholic family would have a much harder time getting approval. What are the numbers of latinos converting to Islam?

It's simple logic. If a the discipline in the house restricts something severely growing up there is a less of a chance of the kid doing it later (of course you get the odd rebel).

So you explain it to me. Why don't Muslims convert to Christianity too often? I think because the religion is cemented in them more so than Christians.

[J @ M @ L]

I don't know what it has to do with the argument, but I think you answered your own question there at the end.

edit: Again this has nothing to do with the argument, but you asked for some information, so I tried to see what I could find... took a couple minutes, you can do it yourself next time 

"Ronaldo Cruz, executive director of the Secretariat for Hispanic Affairs of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, puts the number of departures from the church very roughly at 100,000 a year."

So that's 100,000 a year leaving the Catholic church.

As for Latino Muslims in the U.S., the estimates range from 40,000 - 60,000.

[cska-moscow]

JML lost another debate.

Lol, you just don't get it do you. But anyway no one really takes you're opinion seriously, so just keep blabbing out bullshit.

[cska-moscow]

Salaam,

I have been reading this debate and there have been some good point's said by both poster's but I would just like to clarify some points:

1) The number of Latino's converting to Islam in the US has been increasing at a massive rate.

2) In the day's of the Prophet, the sword was only used to protect him and his follower's as the Quraysh tried to wipe them out but with Allah (swt) the Muslim's prevailed. Howver after the Prophet the word of Islam had to be spread and it did, but that did not mean that every country captured by Muslim's was to "cleansed" and everyone forcely became Muslim, this was and is not the case. Yes people converted but some did not but they were left to practice their religion. If what you say was the case then the 14 million Christian's in the Middle East would not exist.

<< Quote: Shallow : The Martyrs of Cordoba show what can happen to Christians, as 48, mostly priests, were decapitated for "blaspheming". Most even deliberately did it in order to sacrifice themselves for the sake of the faith. Another reason I prefer Christianity. The most extreme Christians (not warriors who pretend to be cheistian but true Christians), sacrifice their lives for the faith but not for a war. They don't suicide bomb or try and kill anyone, but rather get themselves killed to show the power of their belief. >>

Firstly, I would like you to provide a source for you're claim and secondly you have once agin assumed that suicide bombing is permitted in Islam, which is not. The people that enact such crimes are as far away from Islam as possible.

<< Quote: Shallow : You're nuts. You brought up Spain, and all the other countries then you say "oh but that wasn't Muhammad", so then why the fuck did you bring it up?

I don't even think you know what your talking about or what you think you're arguing.

I'm not even going to respond to you, other than correcting a few mistakes you made when interpreting what I meant. >>

Is it that you are not going to respond to him or that you can't respond to him ?

<< Quote: Shallow : Yes thrre are lmost 150 million Muslims in India but there are over 800 million Hindus. There are more Muslims in Pakistan than in India, and al those used to be part of India. >>

And what's the relevance to the argument ?

<< Quote: Shallow : I haven't given up you just keep contradicting yourself. Your beating yourself more than I'm beating you. You bring up one point I respond to it and then you call the point irrlevant. >>

I have not really seen him doing this, the fact is you seem to get agitated when you're point's have been refuted and with all of his argument's you seem to "not want to answer".

<< Quote: Shallow : Hazara is stil in the Minority of Mongols and they live in an Islamic country. I'll bet if the Afaghanistan was Chrstian from day one that the they would be Christian too. It's called adapting to your surroundings because sometimes you are forced to. >>

Once again, you seem to think that every non-Muslim that has converted was forced to do so. Let's relate this to another point you made, say if the Afghan's were forced to convert, why did they not revert back to thier previous religion just the Hindu's, as you claim, did. The fact is Islam show's to a person the true way and not through all these misconception's that other religion's have and people like the simply way of life that it has.

Also what seem's odd is that, first you say Islam forced people to convert and that the "martyr's" of Cordoba died for their religion, so why did'nt the rest of the Christian's do this, after all dying for what you believe in is the best way of dying, is'nt it ?

Firstly you say Islam forced people to convert then you say it is hard to convert Christian's, you seem to contradict yourself often.

[J @ M @ L]

LOL... it's done man... but whatever... you and Shallow have fun

[Real American]

So you explain it to me. Why don't Muslims convert to Christianity too often? I think because the religion is cemented in them more so than Christians.

Because most Muslims countries such as Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan make it illegal. Why? Because they are scared of competition from other religions. That is why they make it illegal for Christians to preach and for Muslims to convert.

Muslim nations could really learn alot about freedom and tolerance from Christians.

[J @ M @ L]

So you explain it to me. Why don't Muslims convert to Christianity too often? I think because the religion is cemented in them more so than Christians.

Because most Muslims countries such as Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan make it illegal. Why? Because they are scared of competition from other religions. That is why they make it illegal for Christians to preach and for Muslims to convert.

Muslim nations could really learn alot about freedom and tolerance from Christians.

CWalker, before you try to join the conversation you should make yourself aware of what it's about. He's talking about Islamic society in general, and specifically in Western nations. And don't worry CWalker, Muslim nations have learned a lot about freedom and tolerance from the heroic Americans at Abu Gharib.  LOL fucking retard get the fuck outta this thread and go look at some interracial porn.

[Real American]

CWalker, before you try to join the conversation you should make yourself aware of what it's about. He's talking about Islamic society in general, and specifically in Western nations. And don't worry CWalker, Muslim nations have learned a lot about freedom and tolerance from the heroic Americans at Abu Gharib.  LOL fucking retard get the fuck outta this thread and go look at some interracial porn.

In all seriousness, why do you think Muslims are so intolerant and discriminatory towards religious minorities? Why can't they just give these groups equal rights?

Just follow the Christian example of equality for all religions and secularism and there wouldn't be any problems.

[J @ M @ L]

CWalker, before you try to join the conversation you should make yourself aware of what it's about. He's talking about Islamic society in general, and specifically in Western nations. And don't worry CWalker, Muslim nations have learned a lot about freedom and tolerance from the heroic Americans at Abu Gharib.  LOL fucking retard get the fuck outta this thread and go look at some interracial porn.

In all seriousness, why do you think Muslims are so intolerant and discriminatory towards religious minorities? Why can't they just give these groups equal rights?

Just follow the Christian example of equality for all and secularism and there wouldn't be any problems.

All I can say to that is NO WAY JOSE! I want religious freedom where I reside, but definitely want it kept out of all Muslim nations... even the few places like the UAE where other religions are tolerated. The whole Middle East should be 100% Muslim, but Muslims should be free to practice their religion in the U.S. and Europe. That's how I want it, and it's close to how I have it. I'm happy with life, are you? 

[J @ M @ L]

From now on I'm going to answer your questions in a way that you will understand, and that will appease you so you shut the fuck up because you're honestly one of the dumbest guys posting here. You should stick to the porn section.

Anyways, here is the first example of how your questions will be answered in the future:

The reason we're intolerant is because in our calendar it's the 15th century, so we're basically right about where Christianity was as far as religious toleration. We should be having Inquisitions, and we should be going around finding indigenous populations to exterminate them... you know, to follow that Christian example you're talking about.