Greatest MC of All Time?

[W-Side]

As most of the verses you posted show, ras kass has small parts with a good rhyme scheme in his verses but the majority is structured without a concept, seeming almost clumsy, just take the first lines of the fist verse you posted


So can you recoginze shit is real
When I shove this ampex 4-9-9 up your rectum
I'm ready to bust every bitch niggas cherry
See these floods in January got me lookin' in the mirror
Screamin' Bloody Mary
Unnecessary representin', equal set trippin'
Divided by my tennis hoe pimpin'
Got all ya'll niggas dippin', like Lipton Tea Bags, son
His stilo Jeet Kune Do the way of the intercepting fist
Intercepting every sublimial dis
Geographic, prejudice against increments of incredulos legislature
Pschologically, I masturbate with the hands of fate
So bust nuts on Mother Nature coming on your landscape

he puts his rhymes kinda random, as if he doesn't write the shit to be flowing it later, but just as a random text that has rhymes in it. The end of the fourth line for example doesn't rhyme at all, the rhyming part is january but that hardly supports the flow. Same with line 8 and 11 (and 1,2), that kinda shit kills the flow and when the rest has this very simple structure

I'm pressing California license plate
For niggas in all 50 fucking states

with the short pause he often makes after each of these lines it makes the whole shit sound like an enumeration of lines instead of a nice flow. It often seems like he doesn't know what the point of multis is n how to use em.

Only thing you proved with the post is what we never denied, the fact that ras kass uses an impressive vocabulary (impressive to those who are impressed by it) and can express himself well. If anybody in this thread denied that Ras Kass has wordplay or lyrical skill go ahead n quote it.

He lacks when it comes to

1. writing lyrics in a way that they facilitate a good, clean flow

2. sounding convicing / credible as far as messages he propagates go.
He is a good battle rapper but the political parts are usually not convincing. And I'm don't mean that as in "he's racist and racism is bad so he's not convincing", a racist can put his views a way that they sound sorta convincing too, if he has that ability, Ras kass doesn't have it. He didn't even manage to make white people look bad in their historical 'conflict' with blacks which shouldn't be that hard considering it is the truth that whites fucked up here. Nature Of The Threat was started with a contradiction that killed the rest of the track and practically justified white people's racism against blacks as fair retaliation. That kinda shit's way too heavy to happen to one of the greatest ever.

these 2 aspects are way too major to be overlooked when it comes to the question wether somebody is "EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever"

[I TO DA GEEZY]

These are the top Mc's of all time overall imo: Biggie,Kool G Rap,Pac,Rakim,Raekwon,GZA,Nas,Jay-z,J-live,Talib Kweli, Common,Chino XL,Big Pun.

[makaveli11]

ok, so you just did what we could have done with the help of ohhla: you posted up lyrics. You did not point out what is supposed to be so exciting about them


As I stomp on the planet, I create earthquakes of humiliating exorbitance
wreaking havoc, my status is that of a saint sacrificed and born again
god help me, the epitome of church has a disease that´s contagious
whitey defined religion, but the clerical depiction of Jesus is fallacious
so I get into your skin like schistosomiasis, with a pen I´m outrageous
they built up a system of deceipt and sold us crack just to tame us
so I treat my metaphors like sour milk, spit em out from my esophagus
proclaiming sincerity with devotion, overdosing on the rawest stuff
and law is a euphemism for blatantly racially pejorative actions
that´s why I scream fuck police and all my nigguz is packin
....etc

now, since I´m just Kill the dubcc poster and Ras is Razzy the lyrical saint, I would like you to explain how my ^cheap keystyle imitation^ of your idol is shit (and I´m not saying I just wrote something genius) but something like this lyric below is "easily some of the best lyricism in hiphop":

I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'

Hold on I am missing something...'cheap keystyle imitation'. So what does that mean you wrote that verse?. If I am wrong then I missed you on that, but if you wrote it then it is pretty good fuckin verse which I certainly did not expect you to bust out of nowhere.

If I am right on that u wrote that verse then that means I detect sarcasm. In other words you just said you wrote a better verse than one of rassy kassy's average verse; therefore he cannot be EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. Well guess what... that doesn't mean shit. Alot of great lyricists have had some average verses and rassy is no exception.


They wanna know how many rhymes have I ripped in rep., but
Researchers never found all the pieces yet
Scientists try to solve the context
Philosophers are wondering what's next
Pieces are took to last who observe them
They couldn't absorb them, they didn't deserve them
My ideas are only for the audience's ears
For my opponents, it might take years
Pencils and pens, are swords
Letters put together form a key to chords
I'm also a sculpture, born with structure
Because of my culture, I'm a rip and destruct the
Difficult styles that'll be for the technology
Complete sights and new heights after I get deep
You don't have to speak just seek
And peep the technique

The verse above is an average rakim verse. I probably put the verse u posted aboved this one, but I guess according to you because of that Rakim cannot be considered to be EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. That's was a fuckin weak attack.

[makaveli11]

As most of the verses you posted show, ras kass has small parts with a good rhyme scheme in his verses but the majority is structured without a concept, seeming almost clumsy, just take the first lines of the fist verse you posted


So can you recoginze shit is real
When I shove this ampex 4-9-9 up your rectum
I'm ready to bust every bitch niggas cherry
See these floods in January got me lookin' in the mirror
Screamin' Bloody Mary
Unnecessary representin', equal set trippin'
Divided by my tennis hoe pimpin'
Got all ya'll niggas dippin', like Lipton Tea Bags, son
His stilo Jeet Kune Do the way of the intercepting fist
Intercepting every sublimial dis
Geographic, prejudice against increments of incredulos legislature
Pschologically, I masturbate with the hands of fate
So bust nuts on Mother Nature coming on your landscape

he puts his rhymes kinda random, as if he doesn't write the shit to be flowing it later, but just as a random text that has rhymes in it. The end of the fourth line for example doesn't rhyme at all, the rhyming part is january but that hardly supports the flow. Same with line 8 and 11 (and 1,2), that kinda shit kills the flow and when the rest has this very simple structure

I'm pressing California license plate
For niggas in all 50 fucking states

with the short pause he often makes after each of these lines it makes the whole shit sound like an enumeration of lines instead of a nice flow. It often seems like he doesn't know what the point of multis is n how to use em.

Only thing you proved with the post is what we never denied, the fact that ras kass uses an impressive vocabulary (impressive to those who are impressed by it) and can express himself well. If anybody in this thread denied that Ras Kass has wordplay or lyrical skill go ahead n quote it.

He lacks when it comes to

1. writing lyrics in a way that they facilitate a good, clean flow

2. sounding convicing / credible as far as messages he propagates go.
He is a good battle rapper but the political parts are usually not convincing. And I'm don't mean that as in "he's racist and racism is bad so he's not convincing", a racist can put his views a way that they sound sorta convincing too, if he has that ability, Ras kass doesn't have it. He didn't even manage to make white people look bad in their historical 'conflict' with blacks which shouldn't be that hard considering it is the truth that whites fucked up here. Nature Of The Threat was started with a contradiction that killed the rest of the track and practically justified white people's racism against blacks as fair retaliation. That kinda shit's way too heavy to happen to one of the greatest ever.

these 2 aspects are way too major to be overlooked when it comes to the question wether somebody is "EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever"

O.K. I see where you are going with this one. I never denied this and the purpose of this verse were to show his impressive lyrical skills NOT vocabulary. I don't know why you and kill keep stating it that way. His wordplay, rhymes, and the material he covers all at the same time are impressive. Second as far as making his messages convincing and making his flow comes correctly; you are 100%. Ras kass admitted this once in an interview and I never denied it, but I am talking ras kass striclty as a lyricist-lyrical skills. Not ras kass as an emcee where you take in flow, delivery, breath control, and the whole exectuion of his lyrics. That's emceeing which you were talking about, but I talking of lyrical skills on the mic; ras as a lyricist not an mc. I dont know if u will understand what i am saying. Perhaps the confusion lays in OUR definition of a lyricist and mc.

[makaveli11]

And to show you what I understand by "explaining", here´s a post I made about 7 months ago, wasting a lot of my precious time on "Nature of the Threat"...if you want to back up your claim, that´s how you could if you brought in good points

ok Infinite, you´re a hard impossible case of ignorance, yet something still makes me react. Congrats on that. Like Seer said, the Isis papers have been debunked. You´re easy to impress by somebody just saying some shit he defines as ´kicking knowledge´

December 25th, the birth of Saturn
A homosexual god, now check the historical pattern
December 25, now thought the birth of Christ
Was Saturnalia, when men got drunk,
fucked each other then beat their wife
Fact is, it was still practiced, til they called it Christmas
So put a gerbil on your Christmas list

Men practising homosexuality on Saturnalia is a wild assumption. It is true that December 25th is not the definite day of birth of Jesus Christ, however, the reason it was chosen for christmas day was partly because it coincided with the holiday of the profane festival and partly because some evidence did exist that Christ was actually born on that day. However, suggesting there is a connection between the two and then bringing in homosexuality is highly inadequate

The Hellenistic Era, Alexander the Great
Conquers all the way to India leavin four successor states
By the Fifth century B.C., R.O.M.E.
succeeds to be the conqueror of Egypt and Greece
But had the threat of the Black Phoenicians in Sicily
The Punic Wars began 264 B.C.
The Black general Hannibal and Carthaginian Peace
In 146 B.C. Carthage fell after a six-month siege
Rome sold every citizen to slavery
The first genocide of history

On a side note, this is ridiculously amateurish songwriting. As for the content, slavery had existed and flourished very long before the Roman culture rose; it was prevalent in Africa when Southern Europeans still sat around in caves. Nubia knew slavery and so did Egypt where slaves were kept for all purposes and also sacrificed. The only thing he could claim is that the Romans took something a step further that had already been known for centuries

And more bisexuality in sight; Julius Caesar was known as
"every woman's husband and every man's wife" (BEOTCH!)

More bisexuality? He first mentioned homosexuality, that´s not the same. Razzy, get your facts right. Anyways, it is known that in ancient africa there were certain tribes who did not condone homosexuality. Some even accepted adultery and/or incest and/or rape. This was before the birth of Cesar, I can tell you that

Spartacus Revolt, a slave rebellion that lost
Where 6,000 slaves was nailed on a cross
Cross?  Aw, shit!  Jesus Christ! Time for some-act-right
Christians get your facts right
Cause Christ was not his name
That's Greek for "One who is anointed"
Yoshua Ben Yosef was his name, do Christians know this?
So who do you praise, do you know his name?
Or do you do this in vain?
Accepting the religion they gave slaves to behave
Peep the description of historian Josephus
"Short, dark, with an underdeveloped beard was Jesus"

actually, "Jesus" does come from "Yeshua" and the way it was spelt. It is not just a name that was made up to cover His real identity. It is widely acknowledged that Jesus/Yeshua was middle eastern in appearance, what´s his point there? That some creatianists don´t?

He had the Romans fearing revolution
The solution was to take him to court and falsely accuse him
After being murdered by Pilate how can it be
these same white Romans established Christianity

Dumb question. Pilate died in the first half of the first century and it was in 313 that christians were given freedom of belief and in 391 that Romans established the religion. So, how could the same whites who enslaved blacks let them become lawyers, doctors and even politicians?

Constantine would later see the cross in a dream
in his vision, it read "En Hawk Signo Wonka":
"In this sign we conquer" - Manifest Destiny
In 325 he convened the Nicean Creed
And separated god into three
Decided Jesus was born on December 25th
and raised then on the third day is a myth
Plus to deceive us
Commissioned Michelangelo to paint white pictures of Jesus
He used his aunt, uncle, and nephew
Subconsciously that affects you
It makes you put white people closer to God

This suggests that one person decided when Jesus was born, which is not true. Also, how does that correspond with the link Razzy sees to the evil fag tradition of Saturnia? Was that a coincidence then? So why does he mention it?

(Yo, 'The Man' got game like a motherfucker!)
True indeed, fuck it, Jihad

Should I comment on Razzy letting someone say he got game like a mothafucka for giving us a synopsis of the Isis Papers without really writing a song and him confirming that guy he payed off to say that himself and subsequently announcing Jihad? I guess not

In the eight century Muslims conquered
Spain, Portugal and France and controlled it for 700 years
They never mention this in history class
cause o'fays are threatened when you get the real lesson
Moors from Baghdad, Turkey threatened European Christians
Meaning, the white way of life; hence the Crusades for Christ
On November 25th, 1491
Santiago defeats the last Muslim stronghold, Grenada
King Ferdinand gave thanks to God for victory
And the Pope of Rome and declared this date to forever be
A day of "Thanksgiving" for all European Christians

This part gives props to the Muslims for conquering large parts of Europe and depicts them as heroic fighters against the evil white way of life. In fact, Muslims conquering Europe is as just or injust as Europeans conquering whatever...it was territorial expansion, period. Sounds like Razzy accuses Europeans of having defended themselves
______________________________________________________________

Ok, again, this song is just full of shit, really. I am very well aware of all the deplorable and despicable acts committed by whites and europeans in world history, as well as I am strongly in favor of people receiving unbiased information on that, religion as a whole and Jesus/Yeshua in particular, but this is not only biased, it is absolutely stupid. The song itself, since this started out as a comparison to the Beatles, ain´t shit either; musically it´s lame, the lyrics contain a few forced rhymes "embedded" in a soliloquy that is borderline to prose and presented mind-blowingly off-beat.

The Isis papers having been "debunked as inaccurate" is actually almost a euphemism. From all I know about them, they are full of wild assumptions the author bases all her writing on, apodictically claiming they´re true without backing them up. Eg she claims that guns, the cross and swastikas are male black genitalia. Interestingly, the Swastika is an ancient Indian symbol. Then she sees a connection between melanin and intelligence and is actually oblivious of the fact that white people have melanin too (very hard to find out, since every white is exactly as white as every other white) and so on. From all I know there are no respected black scientists who respect the Isis papers

To sum up, I´m not THAT impressed. I think "I am the walrus, co-coo-co-choo" is better lyricism

u asked me to show what r so exciting abou his lyrics? I cant do that. I know when I first read some of those very verses including many people, I was excited by those lyrics and went to check out his albums. Unlike you I won't waste my precious time trying to convince you what are so exciting about his lyrics. As far as I am concern the number of hip hop fans who don't like ras kass or don't think he is one of the greatest lyricists ever are a minority based on my experiences with other hip hop fans across other hip hop forums and with the hip hop fams I talk to in real life. Right there is enough proof for me that I am not a ras kass fan( and "fan" is the euphemistic way of putting it).

[W-Side]

O.K. I see where you are going with this one. I never denied this and the purpose of this verse were to show his impressive lyrical skills NOT vocabulary. I don't know why you and kill keep stating it that way. His wordplay, rhymes, and the material he covers all at the same time are impressive. Second as far as making his messages convincing and making his flow comes correctly; you are 100%. Ras kass admitted this once in an interview and I never denied it, but I am talking ras kass striclty as a lyricist-lyrical skills. Not ras kass as an emcee where you take in flow, delivery, breath control, and the whole exectuion of his lyrics. That's emceeing which you were talking about, but I talking of lyrical skills on the mic; ras as a lyricist not an mc. I dont know if u will understand what i am saying. Perhaps the confusion lays in OUR definition of a lyricist and mc.

making the message sound convicing is an aspect of lyrical skill, not flow, so you just admitted his lyrical weakness.

As for the flow, there's 2 aspects to the flow, one being like your style, the way you flow it, the other being how you write your verses (rhyme scheme ect.) which is a part of lyricism aswell since were talkin about song lyricists here. Alot of Ras' verses couldn't possibly be spit decently, regardless of who spits them. So the problem lies in the writing part already, not only his lack of emceeing skills (the spitting part).

we're not talkin shakespeare here, great lyrical skill means, in this case, that the person writes great lyrics to songs. Ras Kass cannot be skillfull at writing rap lyrics when he doesn't know how to place his ryhmes. You can't say just cause you don't hear the problem before he raps the lyrics, it ain't existant before he raps them. If a dude writes lyrics like KRS but spits them like Bizarre, then you can talk about one of the greatest lyricists ever who just lacks the rest of emcee skills. But every decent emcee could perfectly spit KRS' lyrics if he was their ghostwriter, that doesn't go for Ras Kass.

[W-Side]

As far as I am concern the number of hip hop fans who don't like ras kass or don't think he is one of the greatest lyricists ever are a minority based on my experiences with other hip hop fans across other hip hop forums and with the hip hop fams I talk to in real life. Right there is enough proof for me that I am not a ras kass fan( and "fan" is the euphemistic way of putting it).

the number of people who agree with one's opinion can never be proof of anything. Millions of fools by nelly's albums, does it make him a great emcee ? no, cause these people don't understand hiphop and lyricism as much as we do, right ? compared to them we are a minority. Unfortunately the smarter people are almost always a minority. What tells you us hiphop fans who don't consider Ras Kass great are not yet another smarter minority, just like you are in comparison to people who consider nelly dope ? You can only prove it by explaining why.. numbers don't mean shit

On a side note, what people on the internet say might not be representative of what the majorty of the hiphop comunity thinks, ras kass doesn't exactly sell loads does he, at least I heard his sales are rather weak, even for his low 'fame status' (dunno how true it is though cause I don't follow these numbers).

[Macaframa]

Warren G

[Kill]

ok, so you just did what we could have done with the help of ohhla: you posted up lyrics. You did not point out what is supposed to be so exciting about them


As I stomp on the planet, I create earthquakes of humiliating exorbitance
wreaking havoc, my status is that of a saint sacrificed and born again
god help me, the epitome of church has a disease that´s contagious
whitey defined religion, but the clerical depiction of Jesus is fallacious
so I get into your skin like schistosomiasis, with a pen I´m outrageous
they built up a system of deceipt and sold us crack just to tame us
so I treat my metaphors like sour milk, spit em out from my esophagus
proclaiming sincerity with devotion, overdosing on the rawest stuff
and law is a euphemism for blatantly racially pejorative actions
that´s why I scream fuck police and all my nigguz is packin
....etc

now, since I´m just Kill the dubcc poster and Ras is Razzy the lyrical saint, I would like you to explain how my ^cheap keystyle imitation^ of your idol is shit (and I´m not saying I just wrote something genius) but something like this lyric below is "easily some of the best lyricism in hiphop":

I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'

Hold on I am missing something...'cheap keystyle imitation'. So what does that mean you wrote that verse?. If I am wrong then I missed you on that, but if you wrote it then it is pretty good fuckin verse which I certainly did not expect you to bust out of nowhere.

If I am right on that u wrote that verse then that means I detect sarcasm. In other words you just said you wrote a better verse than one of rassy kassy's average verse; therefore he cannot be EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. Well guess what... that doesn't mean shit. Alot of great lyricists have had some average verses and rassy is no exception.

ok, I´ve had 7 or 8 beers right now, so I´m not in the mood/lack the capabilities to argue. But yes, I did bust that verse out of nowhere and thanks for the compliments

You kind of jumped to conclusions too quickly though...what I did is, I imitated Razzy´s style and wrote (or tried to write, whatever) something similar to the stuff he writes. It wasn´t mere sarcasm, I wrote it to back up my point that I´m not THAT impressed by Razzy and I wondered if you could compare my verse to the Ras Kass one and show me what makes Ras Kass so great (compared to Kill the dubcc poster). Of course I expressed myself sarcastically, but don´t get me wrong: I´m neither "hating" on Ras nor am I saying that "I just wrote a better verse"...I just adapted his style to show why I think it´s not all that genius. What I find strange though is that you talked about an "average" verse when I took one of those you posted up in order to show how great Razzy is

but what got the discussion started was me saying "fuck no" to Ras being the GOAT MC - not me saying "Ras has no lyrical skills whatsoever and is the definition of wackness". I never said anything like that, I just think he´s mad overrated by many of his fans and lacks a lot to come close to the GOAT´s - flow, good albums, delivery, to say some of it. Plus he has said some pretty fucking dumb shit, which is why I posted what I said about "Nature of the Threat". And you, you still haven´t done the opposite even though you´ve been discussing for a while

[makaveli11]

O.K. I see where you are going with this one. I never denied this and the purpose of this verse were to show his impressive lyrical skills NOT vocabulary. I don't know why you and kill keep stating it that way. His wordplay, rhymes, and the material he covers all at the same time are impressive. Second as far as making his messages convincing and making his flow comes correctly; you are 100%. Ras kass admitted this once in an interview and I never denied it, but I am talking ras kass striclty as a lyricist-lyrical skills. Not ras kass as an emcee where you take in flow, delivery, breath control, and the whole exectuion of his lyrics. That's emceeing which you were talking about, but I talking of lyrical skills on the mic; ras as a lyricist not an mc. I dont know if u will understand what i am saying. Perhaps the confusion lays in OUR definition of a lyricist and mc.

making the message sound convicing is an aspect of lyrical skill, not flow, so you just admitted his lyrical weakness.

As for the flow, there's 2 aspects to the flow, one being like your style, the way you flow it, the other being how you write your verses (rhyme scheme ect.) which is a part of lyricism aswell since were talkin about song lyricists here. Alot of Ras' verses couldn't possibly be spit decently, regardless of who spits them. So the problem lies in the writing part already, not only his lack of emceeing skills (the spitting part).

we're not talkin shakespeare here, great lyrical skill means, in this case, that the person writes great lyrics to songs. Ras Kass cannot be skillfull at writing rap lyrics when he doesn't know how to place his ryhmes. You can't say just cause you don't hear the problem before he raps the lyrics, it ain't existant before he raps them. If a dude writes lyrics like KRS but spits them like Bizarre, then you can talk about one of the greatest lyricists ever who just lacks the rest of emcee skills. But every decent emcee could perfectly spit KRS' lyrics if he was their ghostwriter, that doesn't go for Ras Kass.

Once again I see where you are coming from and even though I admitted ras kass lyrical weakness with displaying messages convincingly like pac or nas(reason why he put them over himself or at least for pac from what I remember); but I disagree with you on ras kass's flow of his rhymes. I believe any decent lyricist can spit ras's lyrics. I dont believe the problem lies in his writings skills, rather I believe it lies in his difficulities to express himself properly hence the emceeing part meaning flow, delivery, breath control, emotion, etc. Ras is a great song lyricist who has proven this before with songs like 'the evil men do', 'interview with a vampire', 't.v guide', and 'jack frost'.

[makaveli11]

ok, so you just did what we could have done with the help of ohhla: you posted up lyrics. You did not point out what is supposed to be so exciting about them


As I stomp on the planet, I create earthquakes of humiliating exorbitance
wreaking havoc, my status is that of a saint sacrificed and born again
god help me, the epitome of church has a disease that´s contagious
whitey defined religion, but the clerical depiction of Jesus is fallacious
so I get into your skin like schistosomiasis, with a pen I´m outrageous
they built up a system of deceipt and sold us crack just to tame us
so I treat my metaphors like sour milk, spit em out from my esophagus
proclaiming sincerity with devotion, overdosing on the rawest stuff
and law is a euphemism for blatantly racially pejorative actions
that´s why I scream fuck police and all my nigguz is packin
....etc

now, since I´m just Kill the dubcc poster and Ras is Razzy the lyrical saint, I would like you to explain how my ^cheap keystyle imitation^ of your idol is shit (and I´m not saying I just wrote something genius) but something like this lyric below is "easily some of the best lyricism in hiphop":

I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'

Hold on I am missing something...'cheap keystyle imitation'. So what does that mean you wrote that verse?. If I am wrong then I missed you on that, but if you wrote it then it is pretty good fuckin verse which I certainly did not expect you to bust out of nowhere.

If I am right on that u wrote that verse then that means I detect sarcasm. In other words you just said you wrote a better verse than one of rassy kassy's average verse; therefore he cannot be EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. Well guess what... that doesn't mean shit. Alot of great lyricists have had some average verses and rassy is no exception.

ok, I´ve had 7 or 8 beers right now, so I´m not in the mood/lack the capabilities to argue. But yes, I did bust that verse out of nowhere and thanks for the compliments

You kind of jumped to conclusions too quickly though...what I did is, I imitated Razzy´s style and wrote (or tried to write, whatever) something similar to the stuff he writes. It wasn´t mere sarcasm, I wrote it to back up my point that I´m not THAT impressed by Razzy and I wondered if you could compare my verse to the Ras Kass one and show me what makes Ras Kass so great (compared to Kill the dubcc poster). Of course I expressed myself sarcastically, but don´t get me wrong: I´m neither "hating" on Ras nor am I saying that "I just wrote a better verse"...I just adapted his style to show why I think it´s not all that genius. What I find strange though is that you talked about an "average" verse when I took one of those you posted up in order to show how great Razzy is

but what got the discussion started was me saying "fuck no" to Ras being the GOAT MC - not me saying "Ras has no lyrical skills whatsoever and is the definition of wackness". I never said anything like that, I just think he´s mad overrated by many of his fans and lacks a lot to come close to the GOAT´s - flow, good albums, delivery, to say some of it. Plus he has said some pretty fucking dumb shit, which is why I posted what I said about "Nature of the Threat". And you, you still haven´t done the opposite even though you´ve been discussing for a while

As far the verse u posted I didn't notice that you were imitating ras kass's style. So right there I dont agree with your generalization of ras kass's lyrics. Second I said that rassy kassy verse was average because after reading it a couple times especially the beginning I thought it was kind of subpar for his standard. Third I didn't really spend time to find some of HIS best verses ever since I felt it wasn't necessary so hence that average verse pop up. As far as my compliments to that verse u wrote that was mainly for the use of vocabulary from a dubcc poster out of nowhere that impressed. While ras has a huge vocabulary that was not what impressed me; it was his skills as lyricist combining deep subject matter and battle raps together a way I never seen before.

You keep saying I still have not proved my case; I do not know what you are trying to prove or get at with this statement. I can easily say the same thing for you since to me you havent proved to me why ras kass is not one of the greatest lyricist ever. To me all I read from you is that he's trying to be impressive with a huge vocabularly and generalizing his lyrics has a combination of senseless multi's and religion which I see has a HUGE and unfair ras kass stereotype. It reminds me of a stereotype of pac I heard once where this one person said all he raps about is henessy and thugs. I view that ras kass stereotype in the same exact light of the example I presented of pac.

[Crown]

tupac,rakim,RAS KASS(I loved Nature of the threat),and Nas

[W-Side]

Once again I see where you are coming from and even though I admitted ras kass lyrical weakness with displaying messages convincingly like pac or nas(reason why he put them over himself or at least for pac from what I remember);

In that case you'll have to limit your claim of him being one of the greatest lyricist ever to one of the greatest battle lyricists ever. Somebody who struggles to get his message through cannot be one of the greatest overall lyricists ever.

but I disagree with you on ras kass's flow of his rhymes. I believe any decent lyricist can spit ras's lyrics. I dont believe the problem lies in his writings skills, rather I believe it lies in his difficulities to express himself properly hence the emceeing part meaning flow, delivery, breath control, emotion, etc.

So can you recoginze shit is real
When I shove this ampex 4-9-9 up your rectum
I'm ready to bust every bitch niggas cherry
See these floods in January got me lookin' in the mirror
Screamin' Bloody Mary
Unnecessary representin', equal set trippin'
Divided by my tennis hoe pimpin'
Got all ya'll niggas dippin', like Lipton Tea Bags, son
His stilo Jeet Kune Do the way of the intercepting fist
Intercepting every sublimial dis
Geographic, prejudice against increments of incredulos legislature
Pschologically, I masturbate with the hands of fate
So bust nuts on Mother Nature coming on your landscape

are you an emcee ? (amateur or not)

try and flow that shit properly, it won't happen. of course you can put it on beat but whoever listens to it will tell you that somethings missing when you ask for constructive criticism or he'll tell you you were stressing the wrong words in a few parts, thinkin the lines / rhymes are structured different to what it seems like when you spit em (which is not the case).

[Elevz]

I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'

It's plain to see, you can't change me
Kill will be the GOAT for life

 

You just outshined Ras Kass... Props on that verse man, it's hot 

[Kill]

ok, so you just did what we could have done with the help of ohhla: you posted up lyrics. You did not point out what is supposed to be so exciting about them


As I stomp on the planet, I create earthquakes of humiliating exorbitance
wreaking havoc, my status is that of a saint sacrificed and born again
god help me, the epitome of church has a disease that´s contagious
whitey defined religion, but the clerical depiction of Jesus is fallacious
so I get into your skin like schistosomiasis, with a pen I´m outrageous
they built up a system of deceipt and sold us crack just to tame us
so I treat my metaphors like sour milk, spit em out from my esophagus
proclaiming sincerity with devotion, overdosing on the rawest stuff
and law is a euphemism for blatantly racially pejorative actions
that´s why I scream fuck police and all my nigguz is packin
....etc

now, since I´m just Kill the dubcc poster and Ras is Razzy the lyrical saint, I would like you to explain how my ^cheap keystyle imitation^ of your idol is shit (and I´m not saying I just wrote something genius) but something like this lyric below is "easily some of the best lyricism in hiphop":

I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'

Hold on I am missing something...'cheap keystyle imitation'. So what does that mean you wrote that verse?. If I am wrong then I missed you on that, but if you wrote it then it is pretty good fuckin verse which I certainly did not expect you to bust out of nowhere.

If I am right on that u wrote that verse then that means I detect sarcasm. In other words you just said you wrote a better verse than one of rassy kassy's average verse; therefore he cannot be EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. Well guess what... that doesn't mean shit. Alot of great lyricists have had some average verses and rassy is no exception.

ok, I´ve had 7 or 8 beers right now, so I´m not in the mood/lack the capabilities to argue. But yes, I did bust that verse out of nowhere and thanks for the compliments

You kind of jumped to conclusions too quickly though...what I did is, I imitated Razzy´s style and wrote (or tried to write, whatever) something similar to the stuff he writes. It wasn´t mere sarcasm, I wrote it to back up my point that I´m not THAT impressed by Razzy and I wondered if you could compare my verse to the Ras Kass one and show me what makes Ras Kass so great (compared to Kill the dubcc poster). Of course I expressed myself sarcastically, but don´t get me wrong: I´m neither "hating" on Ras nor am I saying that "I just wrote a better verse"...I just adapted his style to show why I think it´s not all that genius. What I find strange though is that you talked about an "average" verse when I took one of those you posted up in order to show how great Razzy is

but what got the discussion started was me saying "fuck no" to Ras being the GOAT MC - not me saying "Ras has no lyrical skills whatsoever and is the definition of wackness". I never said anything like that, I just think he´s mad overrated by many of his fans and lacks a lot to come close to the GOAT´s - flow, good albums, delivery, to say some of it. Plus he has said some pretty fucking dumb shit, which is why I posted what I said about "Nature of the Threat". And you, you still haven´t done the opposite even though you´ve been discussing for a while

As far the verse u posted I didn't notice that you were imitating ras kass's style. So right there I dont agree with your generalization of ras kass's lyrics. Second I said that rassy kassy verse was average because after reading it a couple times especially the beginning I thought it was kind of subpar for his standard. Third I didn't really spend time to find some of HIS best verses ever since I felt it wasn't necessary so hence that average verse pop up. As far as my compliments to that verse u wrote that was mainly for the use of vocabulary from a dubcc poster out of nowhere that impressed. While ras has a huge vocabulary that was not what impressed me; it was his skills as lyricist combining deep subject matter and battle raps together a way I never seen before.

You keep saying I still have not proved my case; I do not know what you are trying to prove or get at with this statement. I can easily say the same thing for you since to me you havent proved to me why ras kass is not one of the greatest lyricist ever. To me all I read from you is that he's trying to be impressive with a huge vocabularly and generalizing his lyrics has a combination of senseless multi's and religion which I see has a HUGE and unfair ras kass stereotype. It reminds me of a stereotype of pac I heard once where this one person said all he raps about is henessy and thugs. I view that ras kass stereotype in the same exact light of the example I presented of pac.

you exaggerate everything I suggest. I didn´t put up one hell of an imitation, but yes, I made religious references, used a bunch of big words and insinuated racism...plus I made the rhyme structure itself rather simple and irregular. whatever, it was a keystyle

what you´ve done again now is you took everything I said a step further to make it look like a generalization. I disagree with what you "blame" me for saying, in fact. Ras does have lyrical skills, as for "getting things through thick skulls", I never said Ras doesn´t have lyrical skills. He tends to use big words where not all that necessary and many of his fans tend to be easily impressed by that. Some of his lyricism is quite decent and some is really pretentious. That´s the way I see it. Ras

trying to be impressive with a huge vocabularly and his lyrics having a combination of senseless multi's and religion

is not entirely the way I see it, it´s a few tendencies he has though (except for the multis, he barely even uses multis)...adding his flow, delivery and the rest of what you said in that other post comparing him to Pac and Nas, he is not too close to GOAT status for me. Plus he hasn´t made one great album really. But he does have a certain talent, he has written some good lyrics, of course having such a vocab can be a quality if you don´t use it TOO ostentatiously (which he doesn´t always do) and I bump some of his stuff, which I wouldn´t do if my opinion could be reduced to your concept right there...and I never said anything else, all I said is certain factors keep him quite far away from GOATability