Why Do Hip-Hop Artists Like To Limit Themselves?

[SGV]

Snoop is a different issue, and in fact is more proof of hiphop artists limiting themselves than being an example of them not. Hes gone and worked with the Neptunes who are what is considered "hot" at the moment, its hardly a major artistic breakthrough. If Snoop did an album with ex-members of Parliament, Funkdelic, and some new funk guys playing new stuff live over it, and really funked out, that would show that he wasn't limiting himself artistically, and would almost be him going full circle back to the roots of his first album, without just revisiting it.

Snoop was downed for working virtual nobodies on the 213 albm... So it's a lose / lose like I said. No matter what he does, people always have a problem.

[Shallow]

You said not stupid then you brought up examples of smart by stating Mensa. It was a more than clear implication. Much clearer than your sarcasm, which almost never translates well in writing.

I feel I made it very clear from the first post and you were the only one to confuse it. I feel it's stupid to not accept artistic growth from artists and I also feel it's stupid for artists to resist artistic growth. I do not mean this in an econimical way. I mean that rappers tend to think it has to be done a certain way and refuse to accept many things.

Yeah, I already stated earlier that your post was a bit ambiguous until you cleared it up... and that I understood what you meant after you clarified it. This is the third time I'm telling you this, but then again... you are the self-proclaimed "most stubborn" poster. 

I just wanted to make sure we were all clear with everything and that no one else confused what I meant. And you did imply "smart".

[J @ M @ L]

Yeah, I said Chino XL was smart because of MENSA. His high IQ made me consider him smart in that sense, and if you disagree, then be it. 

[Crown]

Shallow you have NO idea what is going on in America with young Black people, but you are always on this site like you are some kind of hip hop doctor with the solution for the culture.  Hip Hop music is being streamlined to the youth, in the form of commercial rap which deals with a limited subject matter that caters to peoples baser instincts. THIS IS THE WAY OF AMERICA, GET PAID, GET BITCHES, FLOSS, SHOOT A MOTHERFUCKA IF HE GET IN YOUR WAY. Its called CAPITALISM. Thank the Major record labels for this formula. Dont blame the rappers because in the 80s and 90s there was alot more subject matter in hip hop.
 ONE MORE THING DONT EVER DIS LA CUZ I BEEN TO T.O. AND NEW YORK AND WE(LA) GET WAY MORE RESPECT IN HIP HOP THAN YALL.  

[Shallow]

Shallow you have NO idea what is going on in America with young Black people, but you are always on this site like you are some kind of hip hop doctor with the solution for the culture.  Hip Hop music is being streamlined to the youth, in the form of commercial rap which deals with a limited subject matter that caters to peoples baser instincts. THIS IS THE WAY OF AMERICA, GET PAID, GET BITCHES, FLOSS, SHOOT A MOTHERFUCKA IF HE GET IN YOUR WAY. Its called CAPITALISM. Thank the Major record labels for this formula. Dont blame the rappers because in the 80s and 90s there was alot more subject matter in hip hop.
 ONE MORE THING DONT EVER DIS LA CUZ I BEEN TO T.O. AND NEW YORK AND WE(LA) GET WAY MORE RESPECT IN HIP HOP THAN YALL.  

How do you know what I know about Black American Youth? The Black Youth in Toronto aren't much different than the ones in New York. I've seen both. I've also seen it in Detroit and Chicago. and I never dissed LA, I was just elling Jamal we get hip hop here too.

Canada is capitolist too, and America has been capitolist for a long time, so why is hip hop the only music to over glorify all things negative. Even Metal which was pegged as Satanic really wasn't for the most the most part.



Jamal; I never said Chino wasn't smart.

[Crown]

I got relatives in Canada. My grandfather is Jamaican. West Indians is different than niggas in the states, but if you aint BLACK then you aint qualified to speak on it. Toronto niggas DO NOT LIKE NIGGAS IN AMERICA, dont front, REMEMBER, I GOT RELATIVES UP THERE. Canada is MAD LIBERAL compared to AMERICA. BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA GOT HEATH CARE, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA GOT OSAP TO GO TO COLLEGE, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA GOT MORE EFECTIVE LAWS AGAINST RACISM, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA DONT HAVE EASY ACCESS TO AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA DONT HAVE A INNER CITY RACE WAR WITH MEXICANS, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA DONT HAVE A GANG CULTURE THAT EXIST IN THE STREETS SINCE THE 1940S.
 Dont get me wrong I love my brothers and sisters in Canada Black & White, but shit is so FUCKED UP over here that Niggas rap about what they know and see.
It shouldnt have to be like that, but thats how FUCKED UP SHIT IS.
I live in Detroit now, but I was raised on the WS of POMONA, CALIFORNIA, SO SAVE THAT WEST COAST HATING SHIT CUZ WE GOT UNDERGROUND RAPPERS THAT WILL EAT ANY TORONTO RAPPERS FOOD. 

[Shallow]

I got relatives in Canada. My grandfather is Jamaican. West Indians is different than niggas in the states, but if you aint BLACK then you aint qualified to speak on it. Toronto niggas DO NOT LIKE NIGGAS IN AMERICA, dont front, REMEMBER, I GOT RELATIVES UP THERE. Canada is MAD LIBERAL compared to AMERICA. BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA GOT HEATH CARE, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA GOT OSAP TO GO TO COLLEGE, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA GOT MORE EFECTIVE LAWS AGAINST RACISM, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA DONT HAVE EASY ACCESS TO AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA DONT HAVE A INNER CITY RACE WAR WITH MEXICANS, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA DONT HAVE A GANG CULTURE THAT EXIST IN THE STREETS SINCE THE 1940S.
 Dont get me wrong I love my brothers and sisters in Canada Black & White, but shit is so FUCKED UP over here that Niggas rap about what they know and see.
It shouldnt have to be like that, but thats how FUCKED UP SHIT IS.
I live in Detroit now, but I was raised on the WS of POMONA, CALIFORNIA, SO SAVE THAT WEST COAST HATING SHIT CUZ WE GOT UNDERGROUND RAPPERS THAT WILL EAT ANY TORONTO RAPPERS FOOD. 

I don't know any black that hates Americans. Toronto may not be as bad as the USA but parts of Jamaica, Grenada, and Trinidad cane be and a lot of these kids come straight from there. Like I said I've been to hoods on both sides of the border and I agree they have it easier up here but the mentality isn't much different. Anyway that isn't the point, and I don't buy that "if you ain't black garbage". I have eyes and ears and I can see and hear. No one makes a fuss when blacks talk about whites and says blacks can't understand.

Let's talk about Rock and Roll and The Blues. When these were the music of choice blacks had it way worse in America than they do now, yet the music didn't focus on the negatives of society in a glorifying way like it does now. You said it; Gangs were running since the 40s. Where was the gangster music then?

And for the last time I wasn't dissing LA's rap scene, I was just taking a shot back at Jamal for dissing Canada. But you can't say that LA has the rap scene New York has and that's all I was saying. I never said Toronto had a better scene. I just said it had a scene.

[SGV]

Shallow: Black Gangs have been prominent in the last 30 some years. Even then, it wasn't until the 80's that it reached it's peak and began influencing the black-culture. That's why you hear it in Black music today.

[Shallow]

Shallow: Black Gangs have been prominent in the last 30 some years. Even then, it wasn't until the 80's that it reached it's peak and began influencing the black-culture. That's why you hear it in Black music today.

Bumpy Johnson came out out of a very gang oriented Harlem back in the 20s. The difference was that back then music focused on music and not thug lyrics or becoming celebrities. The reason it's so prominant now is because some rich white and jewish guys realizeg images to suburban kids and popularized that style across the country. This lead young blacks to believe they could become rich this way and that negative style grew. If NWA never sold 2 million records and Dre and Snoop didn't almost double that thwn I'm certain the negative style never would have spread the way it did and become what it has become. It will end once the fad dies out then hip hop can start progessing again.

[ABN]

i think the labels and fans are the ones holding hip hop back the most. if an artist wanna go left field and talk about something "real" that doesn´t involve selling drugs,killing people or other negative things the labels will very rarely get behind it and give it that push that they give 50 Cent,Jay-Z,DMX,Game,G-Unit etc etc. and on the other hand if the average hip hop consumer would refuse to buy that so called "real" shit and go out and support the indie artists then the major labels had to switch their game up. but of course the labels won´t start promoting a positive image and social music if the fans won´t demand it instead of the regular bullshit that are fed to us everyday via Viacom and other payola networks. and of course some blame is on the artists and a lot of them don´t have any artistic integrity so they´ll do whatever for the dollar but very often artists gets signed with the promise that they will be allowed to say whatever they wanna say but once those papers are signed it´s a completely different story and they´ll come up with a gimmick to market you and force you to make certain music and if you don´t follow suit you´ll get dropped. so obviously you´re gonna go with program coz very few people will get a second chance in the music business just ask any former Aftermath artists(Joe Beast,Brooklyn,Hittman etc). and unfortunately i myself sometimes support this bullshit music but i also support music that deals with real issues and if most rap fans would support both sides it would balance itself out but at the moment it doesn´t. *goes off to bump Paid In Full* and damn i noticed i typed something that´s hella long that didn´t really say anything.

[Sikotic™]

Bubba Sparxxx made an amazing album, IMO, with Deliverance... Where is he now?

Damn, I thought I was the only one that thought Deliverance was great.

[SGV]

Bumpy Johnson came out out of a very gang oriented Harlem back in the 20s. The difference was that back then music focused on music and not thug lyrics or becoming celebrities. The reason it's so prominant now is because some rich white and jewish guys realizeg images to suburban kids and popularized that style across the country. This lead young blacks to believe they could become rich this way and that negative style grew. If NWA never sold 2 million records and Dre and Snoop didn't almost double that thwn I'm certain the negative style never would have spread the way it did and become what it has become. It will end once the fad dies out then hip hop can start progessing again.

Gang's in the 20's were MUCH different as Gang's in the 80's. Not even comparable. Like I said, 80's was the peak of Black gangs. That is why you see it as such an influence in their music today. It will not die down as long as people are in the streets gang banging. Everyone talked about street shit from Melle Mel in the "Message" on down. It's a staple of Hip Hop. It started in the streets, will die in the streets.

[Shallow]

Bumpy Johnson came out out of a very gang oriented Harlem back in the 20s. The difference was that back then music focused on music and not thug lyrics or becoming celebrities. The reason it's so prominant now is because some rich white and jewish guys realizeg images to suburban kids and popularized that style across the country. This lead young blacks to believe they could become rich this way and that negative style grew. If NWA never sold 2 million records and Dre and Snoop didn't almost double that thwn I'm certain the negative style never would have spread the way it did and become what it has become. It will end once the fad dies out then hip hop can start progessing again.

Gang's in the 20's were MUCH different as Gang's in the 80's. Not even comparable. Like I said, 80's was the peak of Black gangs. That is why you see it as such an influence in their music today. It will not die down as long as people are in the streets gang banging. Everyone talked about street shit from Melle Mel in the "Message" on down. It's a staple of Hip Hop. It started in the streets, will die in the streets.

Of course it won't exclude the streets. Marvin Gaye talked about the streets too. So did Bruce Springsteen. What I mean is that the glorification and bragging about the negative will die out when the commercial aspect is gone. The Message was a great song but it was nothing like the shit that comes out of 50s mouth. gangsta Rap will die out in the mainstream like all popular music does and rap will come back to the underground at which point it will change.

P.S. I never knew you were around in the 30s. Gangland warfare was probably worse back then. Most of the black gangs worked as enforcers for mobsters and that was some crazy shit. The bottom line is it was proven in an article I read about rap and video games corrupting youth that per capita there is no more gang related activity now then there was in 1960, 1930, or 1900. I'm not talking exclusivley about blacks.

[SGV]

Of course it won't exclude the streets. Marvin Gaye talked about the streets too. So did Bruce Springsteen. What I mean is that the glorification and bragging about the negative will die out when the commercial aspect is gone. The Message was a great song but it was nothing like the shit that comes out of 50s mouth. gangsta Rap will die out in the mainstream like all popular music does and rap will come back to the underground at which point it will change.

P.S. I never knew you were around in the 30s. Gangland warfare was probably worse back then. Most of the black gangs worked as enforcers for mobsters and that was some crazy shit. The bottom line is it was proven in an article I read about rap and video games corrupting youth that per capita there is no more gang related activity now then there was in 1960, 1930, or 1900. I'm not talking exclusivley about blacks.

Listen to Just Ice or Schooly D. It's been in Hip Hop since it started. Glorification of Street life is NEVER leaving. Sorry.

And, Shallow, we're talking Blacks. What I-Talian or Russian's did isn't really of much interest here.

[Shallow]

Of course it won't exclude the streets. Marvin Gaye talked about the streets too. So did Bruce Springsteen. What I mean is that the glorification and bragging about the negative will die out when the commercial aspect is gone. The Message was a great song but it was nothing like the shit that comes out of 50s mouth. gangsta Rap will die out in the mainstream like all popular music does and rap will come back to the underground at which point it will change.

P.S. I never knew you were around in the 30s. Gangland warfare was probably worse back then. Most of the black gangs worked as enforcers for mobsters and that was some crazy shit. The bottom line is it was proven in an article I read about rap and video games corrupting youth that per capita there is no more gang related activity now then there was in 1960, 1930, or 1900. I'm not talking exclusivley about blacks.

Listen to Just Ice or Schooly D. It's been in Hip Hop since it started. Glorification of Street life is NEVER leaving. Sorry.

And, Shallow, we're talking Blacks. What I-Talian or Russian's did isn't really of much interest here.

I'm talking about the secene in general, not a couple rappers. Hip Hop in general had very little to do with Gangsta Rap until NWA and later Dre alone hit it big commercially. There were a lot more Run DMCs than Ice Ts in 1987 and before.


Harlem was notorious for it's black gangs in the 20s and 30s. They had a lot to do with lottery gambling, prostitution and drugs. But the music was Jazz and it was never about thug life or the life of crimne on a stupid way. Artists were artists and thugs were thugs. Real gangsters turn to art to get away from the reality of the street while the fake wanabe thugs make thug art to seem more credible. Lately it had shifted slightly, but it will shift back once there is no money to be made with it.