Jay Z not liking white people taking over hiphop/

[Turf Hitta]

And fuck elvis. he said all a black man can do for him is shine his shoes. Nevermind creating the artform that provided his lavish life of luxury.

And white kids WERE hearing Little Richard songs, but it just wasnt Little Richard singin em. Remember Pat Boone?

[Shallow]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Show me where Elvis said that. Elvis's chef wasa black lady and even after his death she had nothing but nice things to say about him. And Pat Boone may have sang Tutti Frutti, but Little Richard is still somewhat famous now. Most people wouldn't know Pat Boone from Carl Perkins.



You said that people that buy merchandise don't have the right to participate, and would get laughed at. How does someone get into something if they weren't a fan first? I'll bet 99% of the NBA were fans before they were players.

What makes you the judge of what is official?

Dre still acted like a thug at one point. Puffy likes to play business man and gangsta. Is the music they put out official. Dre dsold records largely because of his image back in the day. he was seen as a ruthless gangster who beat up talk show hosts and shot off guns.

Ludacris was born in a small town in Illinois.


That clown from the Neptunes was a skate boarder.


Explain to me why you have to be from the ghetto to be oficial hip hop.


Oh and by the way. I don't smoke, (or drink). I think it's stupid to pollute your body and mind that much, to the point where you can become dependent on those substances.

[Turf Hitta]

You said that people that buy merchandise don't have the right to participate, and would get laughed at. How does someone get into something if they weren't a fan first?

For the last time, I never said fans shouldnt participate, I said that just because somebody buys some shit (cds) that does not make them a fuckin artist. "Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken."

What makes you the judge of what is official?

what makes you think some why boy (outsider) who dont even come from this shit has the right to question my credibility when its obvious that this shit is not something you have a very firm understanding of? you probably know your rock n roll history pretty well but you have displayed a fundamental lack of understanding of what this shit is about.

Dre still acted like a thug at one point.

So? I think that had more to do with the company he kept than it had to do with him trying to fit some image that a record company made up. Either way, he is still from the streets and makes street music. So what are you really trying to say here?

 

Puffy likes to play business man and gangsta. Is the music they put out official. Dre dsold records largely because of his image back in the day. he was seen as a ruthless gangster who beat up talk show hosts and shot off guns.

Off top , I dont got nothin to say about puff other than I admire his work ethic. And Dre did not sell records because of no image, he sold because he knows how to make records that appeal to large audiences.

Ludacris was born in a small town in Illinois.

Lots of people are born in lots of places, what does that even mean? UGK is from a small town is Texas. Does that mean they aint turf affiliated?

That clown from the Neptunes was a skate boarder.

So?

Explain to me why you have to be from the ghetto to be oficial hip hop.

Do your own homework.

Oh and by the way. I don't smoke, (or drink). I think it's stupid to pollute your body and mind that much, to the point where you can become dependent on those substances.

What does that got to do with anything?  Was that ever a topic? You just felt the need to broadcast your square bearish ways?

[Shallow]

I like how you avoided the Elvis part, then answered most querstions with questions.


Whether you belive me or not, I'm from the streets. I grew up on hip hop. I'm no outsider. I simply grew up and grew out of what was a phase. I see thugs and gangsters as losers who can't make it in life and destroy themselves more than anyone else does. I just don't find rap as appealing as I did before I became a fan of all other kinds of music. I'm not a teenager anymore.

You can through all the racist remarks and prejuduces you want. You still haven't answered the question. Why does it have to be from the ghetto to be considered hip hop? Does it have to be from the Memphis to be considered Rock and Roll. Keith Urban is from Australia and he'sa very sucessful country singer in the US. Aerosmith was rapping on Walk This Way 11 years before Run DMC rapped with the same flow and lyrics. Why is what Steven Tyler did singing while what Run DMC did rapping? Because Run DMC are from the hood?

Was Eminem even really from the streets. He was from a trailer park and now it's become apparant that he lived a far better life then he likes to talk about when he moved in with his aunt and uncle. I guess he isn't official hip hop. Lil' John lived a lavish life way from the ghetto. Is he official?

If you think Dre's chronic would have sold the way it did if his image was that of a nerd who likes to read, or a holy man then you are mistaken. The music was catchy (unoriginal, but catchy), but the lyrics and subject matter had a lot to do with it. Look how much less he sold when he stopped pretending to be a gangster and how much more he sold when he started again. The point is a lot of guys bullshit their lives to look tougher than they are. These are the same kind of guys as the guys on the streets who go along wit the real gangsters sit back and watch while someone else does all the dirty work and then take credit. The real thugs don't mind because all the heat is off them. They almost encourage it. I know a guy who went to jail for being in on a murder that happened at my highschool about 9 years back. He didn't do a goddamn thing and went to jail for purgery and assault, but he still claims the murder and brags about getting off. Meanwhile the guy that really killed the guy never said a word about it and never got charged. He had no problem letting the guy run his mouth. I assume the same thing happens with rappers today. THe real gangsters they steal their stories from don't care because it separates them from the event.

[Turf Hitta]

I like how you avoided the Elvis part, then answered most querstions with questions.

I didnt really care to address the elvis shit because its going farther off the topic than we need to. And I answered one questioon with a question because I dont believe you are in a position to question my credibility.

Whether you belive me or not, I'm from the streets. I grew up on hip hop. I'm no outsider. I simply grew up and grew out of what was a phase.

If it was a phase for you it probably just wasnt real for you from jump.

I see thugs and gangsters as losers who can't make it in life and destroy themselves more than anyone else does.

Thats great but when did somebody ask you how you felt about thugs and gangsters? Just because somebody is in the streets that dont mean they gotta be a thug. Im sayin rap should be the streets, not that it should all be gang/thug shit.

You can through all the racist remarks and prejuduces you want. You still haven't answered the question. Why does it have to be from the ghetto to be considered hip hop?

I answered this question already. As I said before, the heart of the streets is at the heart of rap. Takin the streets out of rap is like takin the country out of country music. Its like a muslim with no Allah. Its ham no burger type shit.

If you think Dre's chronic would have sold the way it did if his image was that of a nerd who likes to read, or a holy man then you are mistaken. The music was catchy (unoriginal, but catchy), but the lyrics and subject matter had a lot to do with it. Look how much less he sold when he stopped pretending to be a gangster and how much more he sold when he started again.

Anything you or I have to say about wether or not he would have sold as much with a different image is just speculation. You're probably right he wouldnt have sold like that at that particular point in time with a nerdy ass image but the world will never know. These days you got squares like pharrell and kanye goin multi platinum, but I dont think that means necesarrily that they wouldnt sell as much with a different image. As far as Dre sellin less when he started Aftermath I think that has a lot more to do with the fact that his music wasnt nearly as appealing musically as his previous shit, plus he deviated from the shit that people wanted to hear at that point in time. i doubt it has as much to do with his image as you would like to believe because he was still gettin major love in cali and probably more love in the east than he ever had before at that point.

 

[Shallow]

1) You didn't address Elvis because you have no factual evidence to base it on. And you are in no positon to question me credibility, if I am not in one to question yours. I asked a question to get an answer. You took it as some sort of insult. It shows your stupidity.

2) I consider childhood a phase that you are supposed to grow out of. Unfortunately some people never do.

3) As far as I'm concerned the "streets" and crime go hand in hand. Every time you hear about street cred you hear about a guy being from a gang or gang related. Why do rappers who are from bad areas diss each other for not being real? Because one considers the other not to be a gangster and calls him on it.

4) There is no ham in a hamburger. You can be from the city and sing country. They don't have a rule about that. If the music is good then that's all that matters. Talent counts more than credibility. It doesn't happen often because city folk rarely ever like country.

5) If you think image isn't a big part of selling records then you are mistaken. It shouldn't be, but it is and it always will be. Dre became famous, not because he stole music from the 70s and made it seem like he composed it, but because he was seen as a gangster. I'm not saying that the music had nothing to do with it. But image played a role.


Why did you avoid the Lil' John question?

[Turf Hitta]

1. I really dont give a fuck about elvis, but I have heard that about him from more than a few sources, plus that shit has nothing to do with what we are talking about, you just dragged that here from the other thread.

2. Childhood? Who the fuck is talking about childhood? You said your love of rap was a phase, not childhood.

3. MC Hammer is from the streets, would you ever in your life consider him a gangster? How bout Nelly? How bout Wyclef? How bout Redman? How bout Cee Lo? How bout Raphael Saadiq?

4. Of course you can be from the city and sing country, but it wouldn't be official because the essence of it would be missing. It would not be authentic. Its like the difference between grape juice and grape kool aid.

5. I never said image has nothing to do with record sales, there you go putting words in my mouth again. I just think it doesnt have as much to do with it as you think it does.

6. Lil Jon is not a rapper.

[Shallow]

1. You brought it up and you can't prove it. Your fake sources are worthless.


2. I meant my streets phase, not my rap phase. I haven't grown out of rap, I just don't listen to it as much anymore.


3. I would consider everyone you named at leat gang related at one time. Hammer has changed not but he gets no love in streets and hasn't since his first album. Nelly, Clef, Cee Lo, and Saadiq aren't even considered rappers don't get the same respect Big, Pac, or Jay get. Red is definately gang related.


4. So now you're a country expert. David Allan Coe wasn't from the country and no one questions his authenticity. Shaniah Twain is from Canada and not from the prairies. She is one of country's biggest stars.


5. I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I said "if" you think.....


6. What would you call him? Just because he produces too doesn't mean he doesn't rap. And he puts on a strong street front.

[Black Uhuru]

Its like the difference between grape juice and grape kool aid.

This sums the shit up perfectly, Turf Hitta earning his strips with this one. Shallow if you can't see why the streets are such an important part of Hip Hop then you don't understand the essence of the culture and really have no place commenting.

[reeyotch]

Music has no colour.

It is heard through the ears, not seen with the eyes.

End of story.

I agree.

[Shallow]

Its like the difference between grape juice and grape kool aid.

This sums the shit up perfectly, Turf Hitta earning his strips with this one. Shallow if you can't see why the streets are such an important part of Hip Hop then you don't understand the essence of the culture and really have no place commenting.

I'm not denying the importance of the street culture in hip hop. Every other genre of music changes with who adopts it. The Blues weren't created in the city but a large Blues style and scene emerged from Chicago. It was alittle different from the southern Blues scene and the Louisiana blues scene, but it was still Blues. The street culture in New York is a lot different from the one in LA, why was it okay for LA to adopt hip hop and have a very different sound, but not okay for Idaho. Why was it okay for the South to adopt it. Ever been to Atlanta? It's hardly New York. What else you have to realize that that New York rappers would call non-New York rap second rate or not official.

Once again, ny opinoon stands the same as Chuck D's when it comes to what rap or hip hop is. It's the the next wave of Rock and Roll. First it was Rhythm and Blues, then Rockabilly, then Bristish Invasion, then Pshychodelic, then Folk rock, then Metal, then Punk (but metal re-emerged), then Grunge (which was basically a new punk), and now Hip Hop. Each of those musics took something from each of the ones before them and did something a little different. If the next wave of Rock and Roll comes from Idaho by white kids who rap while playing instruments or not, then it'll be the next wave of rock and roll. Whether Turf considers it official doesn't mean shit to me. Whether it's called hip hop doesn't matter either. Whatver emerges as the next attitude is the next wave of rock.


P.S. Is Bubba Sparxx official hip hop according to you guys?

[Turf Hitta]

1. You brought it up and you can't prove it. Your fake sources are worthless.


2. I meant my streets phase, not my rap phase. I haven't grown out of rap, I just don't listen to it as much anymore.


3. I would consider everyone you named at leat gang related at one time. Hammer has changed not but he gets no love in streets and hasn't since his first album. Nelly, Clef, Cee Lo, and Saadiq aren't even considered rappers don't get the same respect Big, Pac, or Jay get. Red is definately gang related.


4. So now you're a country expert. David Allan Coe wasn't from the country and no one questions his authenticity. Shaniah Twain is from Canada and not from the prairies. She is one of country's biggest stars.


5. I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I said "if" you think.....


6. What would you call him? Just because he produces too doesn't mean he doesn't rap. And he puts on a strong street front.

1. There is a good possibility that I am wrong about elvis, but either way his music still sucked and i dont give no fuck about elvis so lets drop this shit.

2. So you're "from the streets," but it was just a "street phase." "You can leave the ghetto, but the ghetto wont leave you." LOL @ "streets phase."

3. The question wasnt about rappers. the question was are these people (who are from the streets) gangsters or thugs? And what exactly do you mean by gang related? Just knowing people in a gang, having family members in a gang? In that case you're right, damn near everybody on the turf is "gang related" but that dont mean we are all gangsters or thugs just because we know some.

4.You like to say irrelevant things. Why do you keep missing the point? Of course people who aint fromt he country can sing country and maybe a lot of people will like it, that is not the issue. And according to you, all you gotta do is have the right image to sell records anyway. The point is that it wont be authentic if country music comes from the city.

5. "If you think..." implies that I think that way or that I said that I think that way at some point.

6. Lil Jon is not a rapper OR street to me. He's more like a hype man who also produces.

[Shallow]

1. fine by me. and please say "I don't like his music". You have no authority to say it sucked.

2. It's called growing up. How old are you? 16? The "street" can leave you, like it left Malcom X, Tony Danza, or Bill Cosby. What I mean by that is acting like you are from the street when you reach adulthod is immature and stupid. Committing petty street crimes is immature and stupid. That is what being from the streets means to me and everyone else I know.

3. Gang related means you associate with gansters and socialize them while maybe getting in a little trouble. As opposed to be a full fledged gang member.

4. The point is that Coe is respected in the country community as authentic.


5. I wasn't trying to imply that. In fact I belive it was your own prejudice that you lead you to think that, but I will better explain in the future.


6. So what about Bubba?

[Black Uhuru]

Its like the difference between grape juice and grape kool aid.

This sums the shit up perfectly, Turf Hitta earning his strips with this one. Shallow if you can't see why the streets are such an important part of Hip Hop then you don't understand the essence of the culture and really have no place commenting.

I'm not denying the importance of the street culture in hip hop. Every other genre of music changes with who adopts it. The Blues weren't created in the city but a large Blues style and scene emerged from Chicago. It was alittle different from the southern Blues scene and the Louisiana blues scene, but it was still Blues. The street culture in New York is a lot different from the one in LA, why was it okay for LA to adopt hip hop and have a very different sound, but not okay for Idaho. Why was it okay for the South to adopt it. Ever been to Atlanta? It's hardly New York. What else you have to realize that that New York rappers would call non-New York rap second rate or not official.

Once again, ny opinoon stands the same as Chuck D's when it comes to what rap or hip hop is. It's the the next wave of Rock and Roll. First it was Rhythm and Blues, then Rockabilly, then Bristish Invasion, then Pshychodelic, then Folk rock, then Metal, then Punk (but metal re-emerged), then Grunge (which was basically a new punk), and now Hip Hop. Each of those musics took something from each of the ones before them and did something a little different. If the next wave of Rock and Roll comes from Idaho by white kids who rap while playing instruments or not, then it'll be the next wave of rock and roll. Whether Turf considers it official doesn't mean shit to me. Whether it's called hip hop doesn't matter either. Whatver emerges as the next attitude is the next wave of rock.


P.S. Is Bubba Sparxx official hip hop according to you guys?

If thats the case then it won't be official, it will be a different genre all together just like Punk isn't Metal. The thing with HipHop is the purist mentality and refusal to adapt even within our own community let alone bringing in influence by those considered to be outsiders/spectators.

And to me Bubba Sparxx is a rapper not official HipHop.

P.S. Anything that is shoved down our thoarts enough can be the next wave of rock and roll.

[Turf Hitta]

1. fine by me. and please say "I don't like his music". You have no authority to say it sucked.

2. It's called growing up. How old are you? 16? The "street" can leave you, like it left Malcom X, Tony Danza, or Bill Cosby. What I mean by that is acting like you are from the street when you reach adulthod is immature and stupid. Committing petty street crimes is immature and stupid. That is what being from the streets means to me and everyone else I know.

3. Gang related means you associate with gansters and socialize them while maybe getting in a little trouble. As opposed to be a full fledged gang member.

4. The point is that Coe is respected in the country community as authentic.


5. I wasn't trying to imply that. In fact I belive it was your own prejudice that you lead you to think that, but I will better explain in the future.


6. So what about Bubba?

1. blah blah blah

2. The streets will never leave a person who is really from the streets. You can change your ways but the streets will always be a contributing factor to who you are as a person. The streets never left Malocolm X. His experiences in the street were a major factor when it came to who he was. If it wasnt for the streets he would have never found Islam and would never have bettered himself through education in the way that he did.

3. Being gang related does not make you a gangster. Now on that note, there are millions of individuals who are from the streets who are not involved in gang/thug shit. There is more to life in the streets than just being involved in negative activities. Like Allen Iverson said, theres a lot of squares and dorks in the streets too. The streets can be just as diverse as far as the types of people you will encounter as any other side of town.

4. Whatever you say.

5. What are you talking about? My own prejudices led me to believe what?

6. no, bubba is a decent rapper at best, but he is not official to me.