Is backpacker hip hop destroying the music?

[Shallow]

I remember some of the arguments suggesting that Eminem was going to ruin rap and that he would be like Elvis, taking rap from black folks. That hasn't happened obviously and the arguments that were made at the time were obviously way off the mark.

Also, one thing to point out to all the folks that are paranoid about white people taking over hip hop. What happened with Blues, Jazz and Rock and Roll is that we gave that shit away. Whites did not take rock and roll from us, we stopped checking for it, plain and simple. Same thing with jazz and blues. I don't see us just giving this shit away, it's too entrenched at this point. I don't see it happening.

Elvis didn't ruin or steal anything.

quote of the year.

Maybe not, but a lot if not all of Chuck Berry's and Little Richard's success is owed to the fact Elvis became popular.

Runner up for quote of the year.

Sorry pal, the undisputed champion of quote of the year was a when you said fans have no place participating, with regards to basketball. Meaning if you are a fan of basketball you shouldn't play.

P.S. Little Richard himself said if it wasn't for Elvis's success, white people wouldn't have gotten into his records.

And SGV, who are we talking about here? Mainstream acts like Cypress Hill, Xzibit, and Tribe who have gone platinum, or underground guys that you claim don't sell records. If Infinite is booked on the same show as Em and it sells out MSG, should we say that he is changing the music scene, or should the credit go to Eminem. Show me a concert with out big names that sold out in a big venue.

I wil stick to rock and roll. Hip Hop is rock and roll.

[Turf Hitta]

I remember some of the arguments suggesting that Eminem was going to ruin rap and that he would be like Elvis, taking rap from black folks. That hasn't happened obviously and the arguments that were made at the time were obviously way off the mark.

Also, one thing to point out to all the folks that are paranoid about white people taking over hip hop. What happened with Blues, Jazz and Rock and Roll is that we gave that shit away. Whites did not take rock and roll from us, we stopped checking for it, plain and simple. Same thing with jazz and blues. I don't see us just giving this shit away, it's too entrenched at this point. I don't see it happening.

Elvis didn't ruin or steal anything.

quote of the year.

Maybe not, but a lot if not all of Chuck Berry's and Little Richard's success is owed to the fact Elvis became popular.

Runner up for quote of the year.

Sorry pal, the undisputed champion of quote of the year was a when you said fans have no place participating, with regards to basketball. Meaning if you are a fan of basketball you shouldn't play.

P.S. Little Richard himself said if it wasn't for Elvis's success, white people wouldn't have gotten into his records.

You gotta put words in my mouth to make a case for yourself? Thats not what I said. Where did I ever say basketball fans should not play basketball? What kind of fuckin sense would that make? Only play basketball if you dont like it?

[SGV]

And SGV, who are we talking about here? Mainstream acts like Cypress Hill, Xzibit, and Tribe who have gone platinum, or underground guys that you claim don't sell records. If Infinite is booked on the same show as Em and it sells out MSG, should we say that he is changing the music scene, or should the credit go to Eminem. Show me a concert with out big names that sold out in a big venue.

I wil stick to rock and roll. Hip Hop is rock and roll.

Uh... More than 3/4 of the crowd there were BackPackers, that's what Guerilla Union caters to. Same can be said for the Wu Tang Reunion they did, Sage Francis, E&A, Chali 2na, Dilated, Redman were openers. The Wake Up Show Concert with Rza, Self Science and all them, another BackPack show. You fail to realize that...

There's more Underground shows here than there is anything else. Immortal Technique sells out the El Rey. Jedi Mind sell out all their shows here. BackPack/Undergound has a HUGE following, you just don't know about it because you're not exposed to it.

[On The Edge of Insanity]

Rastaman: Common went that route on Electric Circus and continued onto BE. Mos Def hit the mainstream level with "Oh No."

How was Electric Circus mainstream? It was a really creative album, different from the norm, a bit "out there". In no way was it a mainstream album. The first single you could prehaps argue was mainstream, but it was the type of track Common has always had on his albums.

Rawkus wanted a hit, which was what "Oh No" was. Mos didn't comprimise himself for that song, and all of his own material can't be described as mainstream.

However, this would argument is stupid, because what you appear to be throwing into the "backpack" rap category is anybody without mainstream success, i,e, Dilated, Jaylib, etc, which means your pretty much throwing in 70% of hiphop into this one category. I don't see why we need categories anyway, all of these artists are showing their intrepretation of hiphop, their background will have influenced what this is, and to me thats cool. Hiphop isn't just a New York or US thing now, its worldwide, so its clear to see that different people are going to see hiphop in a different way, so to say that one faction of hiphop is ruining the rest is to me just ignorant.

[SGV]

How was Electric Circus mainstream? It was a really creative album, different from the norm, a bit "out there". In no way was it a mainstream album. The first single you could prehaps argue was mainstream, but it was the type of track Common has always had on his albums.

Rawkus wanted a hit, which was what "Oh No" was. Mos didn't comprimise himself for that song, and all of his own material can't be described as mainstream.

However, this would argument is stupid, because what you appear to be throwing into the "backpack" rap category is anybody without mainstream success, i,e, Dilated, Jaylib, etc, which means your pretty much throwing in 70% of hiphop into this one category. I don't see why we need categories anyway, all of these artists are showing their intrepretation of hiphop, their background will have influenced what this is, and to me thats cool. Hiphop isn't just a New York or US thing now, its worldwide, so its clear to see that different people are going to see hiphop in a different way, so to say that one faction of hiphop is ruining the rest is to me just ignorant.

Bringing in the hottest producers of the moment was a ploy for Mainstream acceptance (he then found that with Be & Kanye.)

"Oh No" was FAR from your typical Mos Def track... It was not his element. It was made for Commercial success.

What you don't realize is that Dilated, Jaylib (Whom I never named) are all BackPackers. You think Dilated has a huge Mainstream following? If you do, you're wrong. Go to a Dilated show, it's the same people who seen at the Murs concert. Jaylib share the same fans as Handsome Boy Modeling School, etc. They're BackPackers kid...

[Low Key]

lets all smoke cigarettes and talk about Slugs new mohawk

I'd rather smoke cigarettes and talk about how one of my friends socked him.

[7even]

lets all smoke cigarettes and talk about Slugs new mohawk

I'd rather smoke cigarettes and talk about how one of my friends socked him.

he signed my "I live life like the captain of a sinkin ship"-shirt

[ecrazy]

And SGV, who are we talking about here? Mainstream acts like Cypress Hill, Xzibit, and Tribe who have gone platinum, or underground guys that you claim don't sell records. If Infinite is booked on the same show as Em and it sells out MSG, should we say that he is changing the music scene, or should the credit go to Eminem. Show me a concert with out big names that sold out in a big venue.

I wil stick to rock and roll. Hip Hop is rock and roll.

Uh... More than 3/4 of the crowd there were BackPackers, that's what Guerilla Union caters to. Same can be said for the Wu Tang Reunion they did, Sage Francis, E&A, Chali 2na, Dilated, Redman were openers. The Wake Up Show Concert with Rza, Self Science and all them, another BackPack show. You fail to realize that...

There's more Underground shows here than there is anything else. Immortal Technique sells out the El Rey. Jedi Mind sell out all their shows here. BackPack/Undergound has a HUGE following, you just don't know about it because you're not exposed to it.

Ive gone to every Major Rock The Bells Event, It is A Backpackers Heaven, I swear everyone is on some "ONLY UNDERGROUND HIP HOP" mode and they do slang a whole grip of cds after the concert

Project Blowed is on some other shit though, everyone burns their stuff because they want to be bigger than everyone else there, like if the more people have their ep burned, then they are hot shit or something like that, its weird...but if the blowed gets packed every week like the times ive gone (ive only gone twice, its been a long time though)....then i dont see how shallow's argument has a chance

[Low Key]

lets all smoke cigarettes and talk about Slugs new mohawk

I'd rather smoke cigarettes and talk about how one of my friends socked him.

he signed my "I live life like the captain of a sinkin ship"-shirt

I was thinking about going to one of his shows in Minneapolis. From what I hear, Atmosphere rocks the crowd.

[white Boy]

lets all smoke cigarettes and talk about Slugs new mohawk

I'd rather smoke cigarettes and talk about how one of my friends socked him.

he signed my "I live life like the captain of a sinkin ship"-shirt

he depriciated the value of the shirt by 10 $ cause now theres writing on it.

[SGV]

Ive gone to every Major Rock The Bells Event, It is A Backpackers Heaven, I swear everyone is on some "ONLY UNDERGROUND HIP HOP" mode and they do slang a whole grip of cds after the concert

Project Blowed is on some other shit though, everyone burns their stuff because they want to be bigger than everyone else there, like if the more people have their ep burned, then they are hot shit or something like that, its weird...but if the blowed gets packed every week like the times ive gone (ive only gone twice, its been a long time though)....then i dont see how shallow's argument has a chance

Word. Shallow ain't around the environment. He don't really know.

[On The Edge of Insanity]

How was Electric Circus mainstream? It was a really creative album, different from the norm, a bit "out there". In no way was it a mainstream album. The first single you could prehaps argue was mainstream, but it was the type of track Common has always had on his albums.

Rawkus wanted a hit, which was what "Oh No" was. Mos didn't comprimise himself for that song, and all of his own material can't be described as mainstream.

However, this would argument is stupid, because what you appear to be throwing into the "backpack" rap category is anybody without mainstream success, i,e, Dilated, Jaylib, etc, which means your pretty much throwing in 70% of hiphop into this one category. I don't see why we need categories anyway, all of these artists are showing their intrepretation of hiphop, their background will have influenced what this is, and to me thats cool. Hiphop isn't just a New York or US thing now, its worldwide, so its clear to see that different people are going to see hiphop in a different way, so to say that one faction of hiphop is ruining the rest is to me just ignorant.

Bringing in the hottest producers of the moment was a ploy for Mainstream acceptance (he then found that with Be & Kanye.)

"Oh No" was FAR from your typical Mos Def track... It was not his element. It was made for Commercial success.

What you don't realize is that Dilated, Jaylib (Whom I never named) are all BackPackers. You think Dilated has a huge Mainstream following? If you do, you're wrong. Go to a Dilated show, it's the same people who seen at the Murs concert. Jaylib share the same fans as Handsome Boy Modeling School, etc. They're BackPackers kid...

Neptunes only did two tracks on Electric Circus if that's who you're referring to. The Kanye thing was bound to happen after Kanye got Com on his album, and then Dilla was sick so couldn't do as much of Be as he was originally supposed to.

I didn't say Dilated had a huge mainstream following or anything, I just think its stupid labelling anything that isn't commercially successful "backpack", its like labelling all successful hiphop "club". Surely the sound of the music, rather than the people that follow it should dicate how its labelled, if you're that intent on creating labels?

[Shallow]

And SGV, who are we talking about here? Mainstream acts like Cypress Hill, Xzibit, and Tribe who have gone platinum, or underground guys that you claim don't sell records. If Infinite is booked on the same show as Em and it sells out MSG, should we say that he is changing the music scene, or should the credit go to Eminem. Show me a concert with out big names that sold out in a big venue.

I wil stick to rock and roll. Hip Hop is rock and roll.

Uh... More than 3/4 of the crowd there were BackPackers, that's what Guerilla Union caters to. Same can be said for the Wu Tang Reunion they did, Sage Francis, E&A, Chali 2na, Dilated, Redman were openers. The Wake Up Show Concert with Rza, Self Science and all them, another BackPack show. You fail to realize that...

There's more Underground shows here than there is anything else. Immortal Technique sells out the El Rey. Jedi Mind sell out all their shows here. BackPack/Undergound has a HUGE following, you just don't know about it because you're not exposed to it.

Sell out what though. When Bruce Springsteen goes to New York he can sell out Giant Stadium 10 nights in a row, and he has very little influence over the current. That's 500 fucking thousand tickes sold in one weekend to see one guy. No show openers on the bill. Just Bruce, and I'll admit he is not changing the music world right now. How many tickets do single performers sell in the scene your talking about? And how does it change the music world as a whole? Could it make an impact one day? Maybe, but that's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying it has no effect on the music scene as a whole. Meaning no labels are changing their direction because of it. When The Bee Gees hit big, everyone was looking for Disco Pop with a rock feel, so we got Dona Summer, and Michael Jackson. When Springsteen hit big people were looking for midle america rock and we got Mellencamp. When Nirvana hit it big, we got Pearl Jam and Soundgarden. When Back Street Boys hit it big we got N Synch, Briteny, Christina. That is what I consider changing the music world. Not having a cult following in couple parts of the country.

[SGV]

Neptunes only did two tracks on Electric Circus if that's who you're referring to. The Kanye thing was bound to happen after Kanye got Com on his album, and then Dilla was sick so couldn't do as much of Be as he was originally supposed to.

I didn't say Dilated had a huge mainstream following or anything, I just think its stupid labelling anything that isn't commercially successful "backpack", its like labelling all successful hiphop "club". Surely the sound of the music, rather than the people that follow it should dicate how its labelled, if you're that intent on creating labels?

Getting the Neptunes on your album around then was a ploy for Commercial acceptance... Sorry to break it to you. Signing with Kanye and all that was his final try and it worked. Yes, I base the label on the music. Dilated is a BackPack rap group with money... Period.

Sell out what though. When Bruce Springsteen goes to New York he can sell out Giant Stadium 10 nights in a row, and he has very little influence over the current. That's 500 fucking thousand tickes sold in one weekend to see one guy. No show openers on the bill. Just Bruce, and I'll admit he is not changing the music world right now. How many tickets do single performers sell in the scene your talking about? And how does it change the music world as a whole? Could it make an impact one day? Maybe, but that's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying it has no effect on the music scene as a whole. Meaning no labels are changing their direction because of it. When The Bee Gees hit big, everyone was looking for Disco Pop with a rock feel, so we got Dona Summer, and Michael Jackson. When Springsteen hit big people were looking for midle america rock and we got Mellencamp. When Nirvana hit it big, we got Pearl Jam and Soundgarden. When Back Street Boys hit it big we got N Synch, Briteny, Christina. That is what I consider changing the music world. Not having a cult following in couple parts of the country.

The difference between The BeeGee's, Springstreen, Nirvana, BackStreet Boys.. They had the backing, 90% of BackPack rappers don't have enough support financially to make it big. When they do get it, they generally fail because they don't know how to cater to a new audience. But, you still have people like Aceyalone getting his songs played on big movies like "You Got Served." Immortal Technique and people of the sort on the Warped Tour. Hieroglyphics, Sage Francis, E&A, etc. etc. at HUGE shows like Cypress Hill Smokeout, Rock The Bells etc. If there wasn't a huge market for it, they wouldn't even dream of getting those chances. So, here they are, VERY little money in their pocket, no real contacts at the labels and they're doing this. THAT is influence.

[Shallow]

What do they influence is my question?

Nirvana got backed because the buzz was very strong. Much like NWA. Now NWA was influential. It showed in what came after them and what they did. If the rap scene you talk about was as big as you think it is then some one would jump on it in the corporate world. The reality is it probably isn't big at all outside of where you are.

Do you watch pro wrestling? There is a promotion called ROH and they have some of the best matches and wrestlers in the US. They sell out wherever they go, but he venues aren't all that big. Their wrestlers almost never get over in the WWE, because they don't get pushed. Why they don't get pushed is irrelevant. The point is among their fan base they are the greatest thing in the world and thousands of people are into it, but they don't a get a major TV deal because a few thousand isn't enough. One day they could be a force in the wrestling world, but now they aren't.