Author Topic: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!  (Read 1607 times)

infinite59

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2002, 09:21:44 AM »
Quote
dre is not on the same level as mozart... lets explain it like this


DRE samples all of his music... despite the fact that he doesnt use samples anymore he still in essence does the same

his most classic beats are not even changed up, nothing but a G thang, gz and hustaz, next episode was completely jacked, etc

the albums he makes now that are supposedly sample free, dont contain any previously heard samples but now he has a bunch of musicians jam, and make melodies which he loops and samples... he still samples just not in the same way he prviously did


mozart bach whoever on the otherhand sat down with a pen and wrote music onto paper completely on their own.  they composed melodies in their head and wrote it on paper, and extremely complex melodies at that... im not a classical fanatic a lot of it is amazing...

they not only wrote the music but they thought out every small detail, it wasn't just a composition for a piano they wrote for whole orchestras, mozart created plays that sold out repeatedly.... dre helped make the wash which grossed jack shit

i love dre, and listen to hip hop way more

further more we only know of 40 major classical composers becuz that shit happened 100s of years ago...

do you think people are going to remember every single rap producer in another 300 years peeps arent gonna know who daz dillinger, alchemist, swiss beats, dj glove, mike dean, whoever hte fuck else is out is... they are gonna remember like 15 names at most that might last the test of time

u think it was any diff back then?  there was definitely other music but every single artist doesnt stand the test of time, only those that can do something special no one else can.... thats why those guys got remember forever

dre might get remember for a long time, but i doubt people will still be bumpin him 300 years from now


Hip-hop was spawned from sampling.  Two turntables and a microphone.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Jay ay Beee

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2002, 09:32:09 AM »
Quote


Hip-hop was spawned from sampling.  Two turntables and a microphone.



You just proved his point





Ask Dre if he thinks Mozart, Beethoven et al are wack and he'd just laugh at you
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Tito

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2002, 12:21:12 PM »
Quote


this is a music-related topic and should stay in main section


I DON'T THINK SO CUZ IF I PUT HERE A TOPIC ABOUT PAVAROTTI OR MADONNA SOMEBODY HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Maestro Minded

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2002, 12:28:05 PM »
Quote


I DON'T THINK SO CUZ IF I PUT HERE A TOPIC ABOUT PAVAROTTI OR MADONNA SOMEBODY HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY!


this topic handels wether mozart had more skills than todays hiphop producer, therfore, it is connected to hiphop and should stay in the main section
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Don Jacob

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2002, 01:54:39 PM »
Quote


Jake, I can't argue with you unless you point out facts, so I stripped your reply of all the waste, and kept the substance, so I can respond.  You saying that the reason for limited choices back in the baroque and classical periods was because you were killed if you sucked... LMFAO!!!!!! No, actually, there was alot of folk music being sung, like "Ohh Brother Where Art Thou" type shit, and other music was made, but the resources and instruments were scarce, other than the piano, and you couldn't record anything onto a tape, and you couldn't make money off your music unless you were one of the 7 or so elite composers of the day.




1. bluegrass, wasn't even around back then
2. wether theres 7 or 700, those artists STILL made better music back in the day, go look at the musical notes to a beetoven song that can last up to 20 pages long, and still be listenable and intriging damn near half a millenium later , and the new wu tang joint that got played out in 3 months and who's musical notes and melodies wouldn't even be as long as this single post by me
3. anyone who wasn't great WHO PERFORMED or ENTERTAINED  the king in anyway was sent to a dungeon, executed, or banished, i am not wrong
4. people freely made music back in the day but they were more times than not old church hymms which were composed by other GREAT composers who STILL are better than the contemporary artists of today



it's sooooo obvious your in basic Music Appreciation, becuase you clearly arn't getting all the facts



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »


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Don Jacob

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2002, 01:59:20 PM »
plain and simple the music speaks for it'self



modern music depends on on space age and super technological advancements  which aid modern day musicians AAAAAAAAAALOOOOOOT


the fact that Big B, Bach, 'zart, VB, ect were only working with basic instruments and analouge and primative technology and is STILL better than modern music speaks for it'self


think about it why do big time music experts , and geniuses from mensa agree with me, and only rap fans who are very limited in their musical tastes agree with you?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »


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Ant

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2002, 07:27:47 AM »
i think it was summed up best when someone said "tell dre (or any big time procuder) what infinite said and they will laugh at you"

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2002, 07:39:40 AM »
Yeah that was me lol


Oh and Jake - I agree with what you're saying - but you  (and a lot of others) I've seen write on this board have such a stereotypical view of European monarchs

"anyone who wasn't great WHO PERFORMED or ENTERTAINED  the king in anyway was sent to a dungeon, executed, or banished, i am not wrong "

Yes you are actually

But apart from that I agree 100% with everything else you said
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Maestro Minded

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2002, 07:41:22 AM »
Quote

the fact that Big B, Bach, 'zart, VB, ect were only working with basic instruments and analouge and primative technology and is STILL better than modern music speaks for it'self


strings, brass, flutes. .. do you call that basic instruments??? hats shows how uneducated you really are ... all the akai samples dre and other producers are using are trying to simulate those "simple instruments" .... how cheap do you think it is to buy 8 violins, 8 cello's, 8 violas, 2 contrabasses, 4 flutes, 4 diffrent kind of trumpets, 8 diffrent kinds of grand pianos, 20 diffrent kind of drum-sets, 10 diffrent kinds of guitars, 15 diffrent kind of basses... etc etc etc??? thats the reason hiphopers the uses mpc's insted of live instruments all the time ... nobody is willing to spend half million for instruments .. they prefere spending 10'000 bucks for an mpc 3000 + 30-50 akai sample discs  ... dont say that those instruments are primitive, it only shows your stupidity... a sampler is primitive... compared to live instruments)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Trauma-san

Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2002, 11:17:11 AM »
You know; I retired.  But I couldn't keep my nose out of this one.  This is the most blatently stupid post I've ever read in my entire life.  You're so hellbent on proving that everything's a conspiracy from Mr. Whitey you've forgotten You're Mr. Whitey yourself, infinite.

First off, Dr. Dre grew up on Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, etc. etc. etc.  He knows all this crap.  Dr. Dre composes songs, true.  Most of his melodies are 4 seconds long, and his beats almost ALWAYS loop after 2 bars.  He does 2-4 bar compositions, then just plugs them together, over and over.  

If you knew anything about music, ANYTHING at all, you wouldn't have ever even spoken their names in the same sentence.  Dr. Dre's talent isn't his musical ability.  It's his ability to give the people what they want.  Lemme tell you a story.

Beethoven, everyone knows, had long gone deaf by the time he finished his career.  What they don't know is how he got his start.  As a child, his mother died early, and his father was an alcoholic.  Beethoven had his father retired, and supported his two brothers on his own musical compositions.  He wasn't famous at the time, at all... but still made money from music.  Of course, you'd like to believe that poor people didn't make money off music, but Beethoven himself started that way.  He was supported by the king, however, who knew his father.  Beethoven through his younger years largely survived off of teaching piano of all things.  Ask Dr. Dre if he ever had to pimp his piano skills to make money.  At the age of 30, he had already started going deaf, and retreated to his home in Vienna to cope with it.  He wrote  a series of letters to his brothers, and finally, after 2 years of almost complete deafness, told them he was going to "seize fate by the throat," ... he emerged basically as the greatest of all time, and he was completely deaf.  He composed by cutting the legs off of his piano, and laying on the floor, feeling the vibrations the piano made.  His "moonlight sonata" was inspired by his "Immortal Beloved" an unnamed woman he fell madly in love with, but never married.. it's probably the saddest song I've ever heard in my life.  His "Pathetique" is another one of the greatest songs ever written, he could totally create a mood with ONLY music, no words.  Dr. Dre has never in his best day created a story in my head with only music; DJ Quik did it 1nce with Rogers Groove.  

At 53 beethoven created his greatest masterpiece, his 9th Choral Symphony.  He added in words to finish it off, and had a choir march on stage to sing it.. even though he was deaf, he insisted on conducting the first presentation of it, to the COMMON PEOPLE, who were always invited and anxious to attend Beethoven's public concerts.  The organizers hid a second conducter behind Beethoven, and the orchestra was instructed to follow his lead, and not beethoven's.  After the end of the symphony, he was greeted with thunderous applause, and a standing ovation, Beethoven couldn't even hear the thundering crowd behind him, and was turned around by the first chair violinist, when he saw the crowd's reaction to his masterpiece he broke into tears on stage.  You never hear about beethoven's contemporaries because he DOMINATED the scene of that day with his musical ability, next to mozart, he's without a doubt the greatest composer ever, and not because a king said so, because the common people, who attended his concerts said so.  His melodies are so ingenious, 200 years later they haven't been forgotten.  Beethoven worked at his genius, he strived for perfection, and his rough drafts are covered in markings where he changed this sound, tweaked this, tweaked that.  He's considered revolutionary, and totally changed the music scene.  When Beethoven died, Lightning flashed, thunder rolled, he rose out of bed, Said "Friends, Applaud.  The Comedy is Over"... Clenched his fist towards the sky, and fell back into he bed dead.  That's a perfect testament to what his music was, Passionate, inspired, genius, furious.  

Mozart was a totally different story.  Where beethoven worked at his, Mozart was a phenom.   He came slightly before Beethoven, and Beethoven actually performed FOR Mozart as a child.  Mozart was writing minuets at 5, you and me have't written one yet.  He was writing full symphonies at 9; he was performing piano concerts at 6.  His compositions were totally finished in his head before he wrote them down, he could perform complete concertos with no sheet music.  It wasn't enough for him to be a piano virtuoso; he decided to learn Violin, and soon was a master at it, too.  He was working on a symphony when he died, and roughly sketched it out, it was a funeral song.  It's unfinished, but still thought of as one of the great requiem's written, LOL.  Dude was gangsta.

As you can see, both people got famous, touring, and performing for the people.  So your theory is wrong, and your negativity, and agenda against THE MAN just got another hole shot in it.  

You say the regular people were listening to other music, what are you talking about? What, you think they were bumpin' the real grimy-grimy in their Walkmans?  You think their homie Ignacious was waiting on his record deal?  THe people that WERE great, rose to the top! The way you got famous was public concerts, then, if you were good, the King would sign you to write music.  That's the reward, it's the same way it worked for Dr. Dre and DJ Quik.  There were no records, no radio stations, no music videos; all their was were public performances, and sheet music.  Beethoven, and Mozart, both got their starts, from their fathers touring them around, pimping their performances for cash.  They were 'from the streets' as you would say, and for you to insult them just shows that you know nothing about music outside of hiphop.  Hiphop is genius, but it's a different breed of genius.  A totally, totally different breed of genius.  I'm sure there were people that are unheard of around then, but beethoven and mozart are the wrong people to pick on.  That's just 2 out of dozens and dozens of crazy talented classical composers.  Each has a story, and most of them were poor at first, and rose out of their own destitute to become famous, just like today, it works the same way.  They didn't get famous because the king said so, they got famous because they were talented, and the people (who attended the performances) liked them.  

Peace~
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Maestro Minded

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2002, 11:33:20 AM »
^^

u havent said anythnig ther i can decline exept maby cutting the pianos... ive read that might be a rumor.. anyway... i belive that even though Mozart maby was a genious, we cant call him that since we dont know the skillz of the other composers during his era... ALOTTA composers had really greatly skillz, but only a few managed to play for the royalities (aint many roalities avaiable..) .. what made a composer a chance for the "deal" ?

1. High Quality Skillz
2. Contacts
3. Effort By The Parents...

thats means not only the best succeed to the hills... the may have been alot better composers than mozart... maby 60% of the composers had equal skillz as mozart.. if they did, we cant call mozart a genoius, cuz the majority had same skillz... jermaine dupre is on the top of the game, but not many people considers him as a top-notch rapper ...

all im sayingis that with 2days history knowledge, we cant determine if mozart acually was a genious or not... to be a good composer you gotta start at an early age... a huge majority of the probably around 400 composers known since day one did start their career when they were younger than 4-5 years ... and they all have very greatly skillz... but to call them all for genious, we gotta know witch skillz the other, unknown composers had, witch we currently dont know ...

again, like Einstein said: "Everything Is Realative"

if you find "bad", you also find "good"
if you find "wackness", you also find "skillz"
..
..

since we dont know where to place the unknown composers, we also dont know where to place mozart...
 

Liger187

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2002, 01:24:29 PM »
First I wanna say great post Trauma, that really refreshed my memory about Mozart and Bethoven. As far as Dr. Dre goes, I think that he is the best producer of all time and he is a genious in his own right, but it is not fair to compare him to someone like Bethoven, because he is living in a different time and the type of music that he makes is not even close to as complicated as what the classical geniuses did.

What you all should do however is look at some of the composers of today. I mostly listen to Rap, but I also listen to composers like Uematsu and Mitsuda. I don't really follow other composers of today, but these two are amazing composers and they compose music for games.

Check out some of Uematsu's work here on Final Fantasy 6 http://www.gamingforce.com/audio/mp3/af/ff6gf.php

Also check out Mitsuda's work on Xenogears http://www.gamingforce.com/audio/mp3/sz/xenogears.php

Now these two great Japanese composers may not have the genius of Mozart, since they have the entire history of music to work from, but they make some amazing music and I promise that if you have any appreciation for good music you will not be dissapointed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Ant

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2002, 02:37:13 PM »
are u really that stupid... I BO you sound like a moron quit it...


its not that hard to recognize that someone who could compose before they reached double digits was a genious..

fuckin for real seeing how people on here go out of their way to tear shit down is disgusting... look you're saying mozart isn't a genious because we dont know that much about the "other" composers.  well look jackass are you sayin that there were lots of composers running aroudn back then composing music at age 8? and in beethovens case with no hearing?  look man i played piano before and its not that easy to learn, i started when i was like 6 too and didnt get to far, there are still tons and tons of composers to this day too that you don't know about, do you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARENT AS GOOD AS MOZART.  so thats bullshit, just becauase you dont know about the 1000's of other classical composers that have existed in society doesnt mean they dont exist... the reason we know about a small few is because those small few were the BEST... just like most poeple dont know the name of EVERY single rap producer they only know the names of the best, DJ primeir, DRE

now look moron re read trauma's post he summed it up best... when i haven't listened to classical music in a long time but did frequently when i was younger, mostly bach, beethoven, mozart, tachiovsky (spelled wrong im sure) among others but like i said its been awhile... either way u sound like a retard...
go read a biography of mozart, and compare it to the life story of dr dre, or dj quik... its a whole lot more amazing garanteed... and to this DAY millions of people still enough the music of classical composers... 300 years from now who is gonna be bumping NWA? lol come on give me a break i luv hip hop but u all are jackasses... u should get banned and required to read a book on these people because u get let back on the site for ur repeated ingnorance.



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Maestro Minded

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2002, 03:07:43 PM »
Quote
are u really that stupid... I BO you sound like a moron quit it...


its not that hard to recognize that someone who could compose before they reached double digits was a genious..

fuckin for real seeing how people on here go out of their way to tear shit down is disgusting... look you're saying mozart isn't a genious because we dont know that much about the "other" composers.  well look jackass are you sayin that there were lots of composers running aroudn back then composing music at age 8? and in beethovens case with no hearing?  look man i played piano before and its not that easy to learn, i started when i was like 6 too and didnt get to far, there are still tons and tons of composers to this day too that you don't know about, do you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARENT AS GOOD AS MOZART.  so thats bullshit, just becauase you dont know about the 1000's of other classical composers that have existed in society doesnt mean they dont exist... the reason we know about a small few is because those small few were the BEST... just like most poeple dont know the name of EVERY single rap producer they only know the names of the best, DJ primeir, DRE

now look moron re read trauma's post he summed it up best... when i haven't listened to classical music in a long time but did frequently when i was younger, mostly bach, beethoven, mozart, tachiovsky (spelled wrong im sure) among others but like i said its been awhile... either way u sound like a retard...
go read a biography of mozart, and compare it to the life story of dr dre, or dj quik... its a whole lot more amazing garanteed... and to this DAY millions of people still enough the music of classical composers... 300 years from now who is gonna be bumping NWA? lol come on give me a break i luv hip hop but u all are jackasses... u should get banned and required to read a book on these people because u get let back on the site for ur repeated ingnorance.


1. do not call me moron, idiot, faggot or anything similar again

2. i never said dre's level is similar to mozart, infinite said that, take a good look at the post that ive writte before blaming me for something

3. most of the composers started at younger age, like i early stated:
Haydn: 8 years
Schubert: 4 years
Bach 6-7 years
Vivaldi <8 years
Beethoven .(dont remember.. but very young)

4. Apparently you dont understand what i mean with "everything is relative" ... cuz if you did, you wouldnt argue against me.... why dont you go to your local library and pick a book.

5.
Quote
look you're saying mozart isn't a genious because we dont know that much about the "other" composers

^^ dont be frontin.. i never said that... u need to check them stats .. i said that we couldnt claim thats he was a genious becuz of the fact that we dont know on witch level the other composers were in.. BUT he probably was a genius... dont filtrate the word you didnt liked to form diffrent sentences...

6. composing was mozarts fulltime job, it was his 24/7 already at the age of 5... you started when you were six?? .. if you kept playing piano, kept pushing forward, 8 hours / day, 7 days /week, im pretty sure your skillz would be really dope....but i might be wrong ::)

7. Screw all that NWA and Dre, and DJ Quik talk.. i didnt even meition them..

-------------------------------------
i dont know who you are, and i dont care.. but i dont want you to have that disrespecting attitude against me, u wanna discuss, im over here, u want beef, then im outta here...



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Maestro Minded

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #59 on: April 26, 2002, 03:10:18 PM »
what yall must understand is that im ot saying that the composers didnt have any skillz or something.. im just saying that yall are quikk to throw that genius status over them...

tell me .. whats the definition of "Genius" ??
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »