Author Topic: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!  (Read 994 times)

Don Jacob

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2002, 01:59:20 PM »
plain and simple the music speaks for it'self



modern music depends on on space age and super technological advancements  which aid modern day musicians AAAAAAAAAALOOOOOOT


the fact that Big B, Bach, 'zart, VB, ect were only working with basic instruments and analouge and primative technology and is STILL better than modern music speaks for it'self


think about it why do big time music experts , and geniuses from mensa agree with me, and only rap fans who are very limited in their musical tastes agree with you?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »


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Ant

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2002, 07:27:47 AM »
i think it was summed up best when someone said "tell dre (or any big time procuder) what infinite said and they will laugh at you"

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2002, 07:39:40 AM »
Yeah that was me lol


Oh and Jake - I agree with what you're saying - but you  (and a lot of others) I've seen write on this board have such a stereotypical view of European monarchs

"anyone who wasn't great WHO PERFORMED or ENTERTAINED  the king in anyway was sent to a dungeon, executed, or banished, i am not wrong "

Yes you are actually

But apart from that I agree 100% with everything else you said
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Maestro Minded

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2002, 07:41:22 AM »
Quote

the fact that Big B, Bach, 'zart, VB, ect were only working with basic instruments and analouge and primative technology and is STILL better than modern music speaks for it'self


strings, brass, flutes. .. do you call that basic instruments??? hats shows how uneducated you really are ... all the akai samples dre and other producers are using are trying to simulate those "simple instruments" .... how cheap do you think it is to buy 8 violins, 8 cello's, 8 violas, 2 contrabasses, 4 flutes, 4 diffrent kind of trumpets, 8 diffrent kinds of grand pianos, 20 diffrent kind of drum-sets, 10 diffrent kinds of guitars, 15 diffrent kind of basses... etc etc etc??? thats the reason hiphopers the uses mpc's insted of live instruments all the time ... nobody is willing to spend half million for instruments .. they prefere spending 10'000 bucks for an mpc 3000 + 30-50 akai sample discs  ... dont say that those instruments are primitive, it only shows your stupidity... a sampler is primitive... compared to live instruments)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2002, 11:17:11 AM »
You know; I retired.  But I couldn't keep my nose out of this one.  This is the most blatently stupid post I've ever read in my entire life.  You're so hellbent on proving that everything's a conspiracy from Mr. Whitey you've forgotten You're Mr. Whitey yourself, infinite.

First off, Dr. Dre grew up on Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, etc. etc. etc.  He knows all this crap.  Dr. Dre composes songs, true.  Most of his melodies are 4 seconds long, and his beats almost ALWAYS loop after 2 bars.  He does 2-4 bar compositions, then just plugs them together, over and over.  

If you knew anything about music, ANYTHING at all, you wouldn't have ever even spoken their names in the same sentence.  Dr. Dre's talent isn't his musical ability.  It's his ability to give the people what they want.  Lemme tell you a story.

Beethoven, everyone knows, had long gone deaf by the time he finished his career.  What they don't know is how he got his start.  As a child, his mother died early, and his father was an alcoholic.  Beethoven had his father retired, and supported his two brothers on his own musical compositions.  He wasn't famous at the time, at all... but still made money from music.  Of course, you'd like to believe that poor people didn't make money off music, but Beethoven himself started that way.  He was supported by the king, however, who knew his father.  Beethoven through his younger years largely survived off of teaching piano of all things.  Ask Dr. Dre if he ever had to pimp his piano skills to make money.  At the age of 30, he had already started going deaf, and retreated to his home in Vienna to cope with it.  He wrote  a series of letters to his brothers, and finally, after 2 years of almost complete deafness, told them he was going to "seize fate by the throat," ... he emerged basically as the greatest of all time, and he was completely deaf.  He composed by cutting the legs off of his piano, and laying on the floor, feeling the vibrations the piano made.  His "moonlight sonata" was inspired by his "Immortal Beloved" an unnamed woman he fell madly in love with, but never married.. it's probably the saddest song I've ever heard in my life.  His "Pathetique" is another one of the greatest songs ever written, he could totally create a mood with ONLY music, no words.  Dr. Dre has never in his best day created a story in my head with only music; DJ Quik did it 1nce with Rogers Groove.  

At 53 beethoven created his greatest masterpiece, his 9th Choral Symphony.  He added in words to finish it off, and had a choir march on stage to sing it.. even though he was deaf, he insisted on conducting the first presentation of it, to the COMMON PEOPLE, who were always invited and anxious to attend Beethoven's public concerts.  The organizers hid a second conducter behind Beethoven, and the orchestra was instructed to follow his lead, and not beethoven's.  After the end of the symphony, he was greeted with thunderous applause, and a standing ovation, Beethoven couldn't even hear the thundering crowd behind him, and was turned around by the first chair violinist, when he saw the crowd's reaction to his masterpiece he broke into tears on stage.  You never hear about beethoven's contemporaries because he DOMINATED the scene of that day with his musical ability, next to mozart, he's without a doubt the greatest composer ever, and not because a king said so, because the common people, who attended his concerts said so.  His melodies are so ingenious, 200 years later they haven't been forgotten.  Beethoven worked at his genius, he strived for perfection, and his rough drafts are covered in markings where he changed this sound, tweaked this, tweaked that.  He's considered revolutionary, and totally changed the music scene.  When Beethoven died, Lightning flashed, thunder rolled, he rose out of bed, Said "Friends, Applaud.  The Comedy is Over"... Clenched his fist towards the sky, and fell back into he bed dead.  That's a perfect testament to what his music was, Passionate, inspired, genius, furious.  

Mozart was a totally different story.  Where beethoven worked at his, Mozart was a phenom.   He came slightly before Beethoven, and Beethoven actually performed FOR Mozart as a child.  Mozart was writing minuets at 5, you and me have't written one yet.  He was writing full symphonies at 9; he was performing piano concerts at 6.  His compositions were totally finished in his head before he wrote them down, he could perform complete concertos with no sheet music.  It wasn't enough for him to be a piano virtuoso; he decided to learn Violin, and soon was a master at it, too.  He was working on a symphony when he died, and roughly sketched it out, it was a funeral song.  It's unfinished, but still thought of as one of the great requiem's written, LOL.  Dude was gangsta.

As you can see, both people got famous, touring, and performing for the people.  So your theory is wrong, and your negativity, and agenda against THE MAN just got another hole shot in it.  

You say the regular people were listening to other music, what are you talking about? What, you think they were bumpin' the real grimy-grimy in their Walkmans?  You think their homie Ignacious was waiting on his record deal?  THe people that WERE great, rose to the top! The way you got famous was public concerts, then, if you were good, the King would sign you to write music.  That's the reward, it's the same way it worked for Dr. Dre and DJ Quik.  There were no records, no radio stations, no music videos; all their was were public performances, and sheet music.  Beethoven, and Mozart, both got their starts, from their fathers touring them around, pimping their performances for cash.  They were 'from the streets' as you would say, and for you to insult them just shows that you know nothing about music outside of hiphop.  Hiphop is genius, but it's a different breed of genius.  A totally, totally different breed of genius.  I'm sure there were people that are unheard of around then, but beethoven and mozart are the wrong people to pick on.  That's just 2 out of dozens and dozens of crazy talented classical composers.  Each has a story, and most of them were poor at first, and rose out of their own destitute to become famous, just like today, it works the same way.  They didn't get famous because the king said so, they got famous because they were talented, and the people (who attended the performances) liked them.  

Peace~
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Maestro Minded

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2002, 11:33:20 AM »
^^

u havent said anythnig ther i can decline exept maby cutting the pianos... ive read that might be a rumor.. anyway... i belive that even though Mozart maby was a genious, we cant call him that since we dont know the skillz of the other composers during his era... ALOTTA composers had really greatly skillz, but only a few managed to play for the royalities (aint many roalities avaiable..) .. what made a composer a chance for the "deal" ?

1. High Quality Skillz
2. Contacts
3. Effort By The Parents...

thats means not only the best succeed to the hills... the may have been alot better composers than mozart... maby 60% of the composers had equal skillz as mozart.. if they did, we cant call mozart a genoius, cuz the majority had same skillz... jermaine dupre is on the top of the game, but not many people considers him as a top-notch rapper ...

all im sayingis that with 2days history knowledge, we cant determine if mozart acually was a genious or not... to be a good composer you gotta start at an early age... a huge majority of the probably around 400 composers known since day one did start their career when they were younger than 4-5 years ... and they all have very greatly skillz... but to call them all for genious, we gotta know witch skillz the other, unknown composers had, witch we currently dont know ...

again, like Einstein said: "Everything Is Realative"

if you find "bad", you also find "good"
if you find "wackness", you also find "skillz"
..
..

since we dont know where to place the unknown composers, we also dont know where to place mozart...
 

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2002, 01:24:29 PM »
First I wanna say great post Trauma, that really refreshed my memory about Mozart and Bethoven. As far as Dr. Dre goes, I think that he is the best producer of all time and he is a genious in his own right, but it is not fair to compare him to someone like Bethoven, because he is living in a different time and the type of music that he makes is not even close to as complicated as what the classical geniuses did.

What you all should do however is look at some of the composers of today. I mostly listen to Rap, but I also listen to composers like Uematsu and Mitsuda. I don't really follow other composers of today, but these two are amazing composers and they compose music for games.

Check out some of Uematsu's work here on Final Fantasy 6 http://www.gamingforce.com/audio/mp3/af/ff6gf.php

Also check out Mitsuda's work on Xenogears http://www.gamingforce.com/audio/mp3/sz/xenogears.php

Now these two great Japanese composers may not have the genius of Mozart, since they have the entire history of music to work from, but they make some amazing music and I promise that if you have any appreciation for good music you will not be dissapointed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Ant

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2002, 02:37:13 PM »
are u really that stupid... I BO you sound like a moron quit it...


its not that hard to recognize that someone who could compose before they reached double digits was a genious..

fuckin for real seeing how people on here go out of their way to tear shit down is disgusting... look you're saying mozart isn't a genious because we dont know that much about the "other" composers.  well look jackass are you sayin that there were lots of composers running aroudn back then composing music at age 8? and in beethovens case with no hearing?  look man i played piano before and its not that easy to learn, i started when i was like 6 too and didnt get to far, there are still tons and tons of composers to this day too that you don't know about, do you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARENT AS GOOD AS MOZART.  so thats bullshit, just becauase you dont know about the 1000's of other classical composers that have existed in society doesnt mean they dont exist... the reason we know about a small few is because those small few were the BEST... just like most poeple dont know the name of EVERY single rap producer they only know the names of the best, DJ primeir, DRE

now look moron re read trauma's post he summed it up best... when i haven't listened to classical music in a long time but did frequently when i was younger, mostly bach, beethoven, mozart, tachiovsky (spelled wrong im sure) among others but like i said its been awhile... either way u sound like a retard...
go read a biography of mozart, and compare it to the life story of dr dre, or dj quik... its a whole lot more amazing garanteed... and to this DAY millions of people still enough the music of classical composers... 300 years from now who is gonna be bumping NWA? lol come on give me a break i luv hip hop but u all are jackasses... u should get banned and required to read a book on these people because u get let back on the site for ur repeated ingnorance.



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Maestro Minded

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2002, 03:07:43 PM »
Quote
are u really that stupid... I BO you sound like a moron quit it...


its not that hard to recognize that someone who could compose before they reached double digits was a genious..

fuckin for real seeing how people on here go out of their way to tear shit down is disgusting... look you're saying mozart isn't a genious because we dont know that much about the "other" composers.  well look jackass are you sayin that there were lots of composers running aroudn back then composing music at age 8? and in beethovens case with no hearing?  look man i played piano before and its not that easy to learn, i started when i was like 6 too and didnt get to far, there are still tons and tons of composers to this day too that you don't know about, do you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARENT AS GOOD AS MOZART.  so thats bullshit, just becauase you dont know about the 1000's of other classical composers that have existed in society doesnt mean they dont exist... the reason we know about a small few is because those small few were the BEST... just like most poeple dont know the name of EVERY single rap producer they only know the names of the best, DJ primeir, DRE

now look moron re read trauma's post he summed it up best... when i haven't listened to classical music in a long time but did frequently when i was younger, mostly bach, beethoven, mozart, tachiovsky (spelled wrong im sure) among others but like i said its been awhile... either way u sound like a retard...
go read a biography of mozart, and compare it to the life story of dr dre, or dj quik... its a whole lot more amazing garanteed... and to this DAY millions of people still enough the music of classical composers... 300 years from now who is gonna be bumping NWA? lol come on give me a break i luv hip hop but u all are jackasses... u should get banned and required to read a book on these people because u get let back on the site for ur repeated ingnorance.


1. do not call me moron, idiot, faggot or anything similar again

2. i never said dre's level is similar to mozart, infinite said that, take a good look at the post that ive writte before blaming me for something

3. most of the composers started at younger age, like i early stated:
Haydn: 8 years
Schubert: 4 years
Bach 6-7 years
Vivaldi <8 years
Beethoven .(dont remember.. but very young)

4. Apparently you dont understand what i mean with "everything is relative" ... cuz if you did, you wouldnt argue against me.... why dont you go to your local library and pick a book.

5.
Quote
look you're saying mozart isn't a genious because we dont know that much about the "other" composers

^^ dont be frontin.. i never said that... u need to check them stats .. i said that we couldnt claim thats he was a genious becuz of the fact that we dont know on witch level the other composers were in.. BUT he probably was a genius... dont filtrate the word you didnt liked to form diffrent sentences...

6. composing was mozarts fulltime job, it was his 24/7 already at the age of 5... you started when you were six?? .. if you kept playing piano, kept pushing forward, 8 hours / day, 7 days /week, im pretty sure your skillz would be really dope....but i might be wrong ::)

7. Screw all that NWA and Dre, and DJ Quik talk.. i didnt even meition them..

-------------------------------------
i dont know who you are, and i dont care.. but i dont want you to have that disrespecting attitude against me, u wanna discuss, im over here, u want beef, then im outta here...



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Maestro Minded

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #59 on: April 26, 2002, 03:10:18 PM »
what yall must understand is that im ot saying that the composers didnt have any skillz or something.. im just saying that yall are quikk to throw that genius status over them...

tell me .. whats the definition of "Genius" ??
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #60 on: April 26, 2002, 04:03:10 PM »
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

INFINITE????????
A TUPAC RELIGION???.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.....U FUCKING IDIOT...HE'S WACK NE WAY...I DONT RATE HIM..BUT LET HIS SOUL REST IN PIECE AND GET OFF HIS NUTZ!!!!

peash!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #61 on: April 26, 2002, 04:28:25 PM »
Quote
Did you know Ludwig van Beethoven was deaf for the last part of his life? He still composed without ANY hearing. That's genius to me! There are 7 piano sonatas that he composed while he was deaf, some of them are thought to be his GREATEST shit...

It was weak that they had to make music for the king, but thats how shit was back then. Artists had to do shit for the king as well... They were compsoing for their own enjoyment, but they did it in the name of the king.

To say they arent shit isnt fair. Just wait till Dj quiks new CD comes out, check out Chopin's groove to see how these guys can play a big part in Rap music today!

-Engelwood


Man... you know what's up!!! I love Mozart.... He is the Hommie... he Compose Music since he was 3 years old... his father was a famious Austrian Musician... Mozart was actually mentally unstabble and was still able to come up with the best preforming Arts preformances.... He was feared his father even his father passed aways.. and one person who was so envious of him a had alot to with his mental state and death even... Drove him nuts.. be dressing as his father when mozart least thought he would see the images... so he thought.. thats what they were... the man who also was the last one to see mozart alive... spent the last hours of mozart live with him... trying to write a musicial.. with the plans of stealing it and in hopes that Mozart would pass away.. from tiredness...
Man if you hear... classicial music.. with your eyes close.. and just listen to all the sounds.. it is amazing how one person can just think of putting all the right sound and insterments... together to make a unique sound....

and who ever said classicial music was for rich people anyways... mozart preformed for the poor people as well... He was well known at his time.. but famious today... i love classicial music.. bach and valvdi are good as well..

so don't hate on classical music man.. it is great stuff..

And Infiniate..... I notice that you are pestamistic.. about alot of things... if it don't take to your likely.. you don't like.. it or.. put it down.. i just thought you were really religious.. and shit.. but then i realized.. that you were just into what you believe.. and say it.. as if we should all believe it... man.. i think you are some what flaky
~1~
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #62 on: April 26, 2002, 07:28:58 PM »
i'm with jake and trauma.peace-Tanjint
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »

 
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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #63 on: April 26, 2002, 09:25:08 PM »
yeah jake is on point
like u said infinite. there were like 7 elite compsoes back then and now like hundreds and hundreds or artists to choose from, the thing is people like Beethoven are superior to ALL of them, more of a genius then all of them, of course give respect to some artist because soem today do have raw talent like no other, BUT its not like Beethoven, its not the truly composed, not sampled, but originally made music, the classic stuff, why do you think they have that music in classes and not hip hop? i love hip hop and always have but gotta give respect to some of the geniuses who set many others on the right foot
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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2002, 12:46:29 AM »
Quote
like u said infinite. there were like 7 elite compsoes back then and now like hundreds and hundreds or artists to choose from, the thing is people like Beethoven are superior to ALL of them, more of a genius then all of them


thats something that we are assuming...we dont know fo sure..

are theese people genius:

Aritsoteles
Newton
Einstein
Columbus
Caesar

somebody plz answer this
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2002, 04:38:11 AM »
Quote

are theese people genius:

Aritsoteles
Newton
Einstein
Columbus
Caesar

somebody plz answer this


Yes, and not because they're compared to anybody.  Because they were originals, one of a kind, and did things nobody else could have done.  Except for maybe Columbus, I wouldn't really call him a genius.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2002, 05:37:31 AM »
Quote


Yes, and not because they're compared to anybody.  Because they were originals, one of a kind, and did things nobody else could have done.  Except for maybe Columbus, I wouldn't really call him a genius.  

columbus was a genious, cuz while everybody else said that the world is flat columbus was one of the only scientists that figured that the world gotta be a globe.... his mind were supperior ... therefore he was a genuis...

the diffrence between a genius and a extremly talented person is that a genius dont have to learn stuff the same way.. he already have it in him ... let him read a math-book once, and he'll understand everything, even the things professors dont get ... mozart started when he was four and worked his way through to get his extremly good skillz ..

have anybody seen "Good Will Hunting" .. that dude was a genius .... he didnt learned what he knew.. he just knew it...

Caesar was no genius, people learned his how to be a dominator, how to act when its war, how to do everything right, same with hannibal, same with other good emperrors...

yall acting like if im saying that Mozart wasnt good or something... but you're missunderstanding me ... i just think that you dont really know the definition of "genius" ... dre is no genius, he's not even near genuis.. not even 5% genius... jemmy hendrix is no genius... maby 10% genuis ... genius is a word thats not being used correctly..

if you give a 16 years old boy / girl a piano for for the first time, you give him 2-3 lessons, and he understand everything and starts play like if he've played for 5 years, he's a genius, cuz he didnt lean that.. he just knew ... open the encyclopedia and look at the word genius ....

what im saying isnt an opinion.. it is the fact... check the encyclopedia....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

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Re: Beethoven, Bach, Mozart- Straight Wack!!!
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2002, 07:51:19 AM »
Hendrix was definately a genius, because nobody can play guitar like that.  Also, he invented things on guitar that I've only heard him and eric clapton do.  He definatey was genius, because he had a god-given talent to play guitar... Hendrix Played left handed, and while in the army, he'd beg bands to let him play guitar at concerts.  They'd tell him "O.k., but you can't restring it, you gotta play my righty"... so, he'd turn the guitar upside down, and play it lefthanded, backwards.... better than they could playing it properly. That's genius to me.  If you've ever heard "Machine Gun" by him, you'd think that's genius, too... Plus, "Voodoo Chile" his most famous song, was a jam he thought up spontaneously because a film crew needed film of him recording, and he'd already finished the album.  

Mozart could play concerts at 5, that's genius, he didn't practice to get like that, he just was.
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