Author Topic: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive  (Read 1168 times)

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2005, 05:24:00 PM »
Arafat was a fucktard, I'll give you that... but...

A supporter of the Israeli government has no room to talk about terrorism.... that's like Hitler supporters calling others anti-Semitic.

Israel >>> al-Qaeda

Im not a supporter Im an Israeli citizen...Buses have exploded near my home and Kassam missiles had been launched on my former school and you tell me I shouldn't talk about terrorism? ...You're just going around spreading ungrounded slogans with nothing but speculations and quotes from anti Israeli propoganda articles to back them up...I'm gonna come up with a slogan now:

If you don't support Israel> You support Terrorism.....*and unlike yours this one had been tested*
 
and here is one more(and this one also contains correlation to the first one):

Funding the Palestinian authority=subsidizing terrorism.

One day the world will know the truth but it's gonna be too late, if spetember 11th wasn't a wake up call for you people I doubt anything will help you realize the threat our world is facing, it's not Israel's problem alone- it's global...Look at Al Qaeda,Look at Jihad and Hamas, look at Chechnia, look at Iraq, look at Iran, examine Syria...You people like to apply your double standard way too often for your own good, these are not separate problems, these are elements of the same problem. Certain power structures realized that there is a very efficient way to impose their ways on the world and you people play into their hands with your ignorance.What can I say- GOOD LUCK, hope it works out for ya.

Propaganda? Our double standards? LOL you crack me up

Anyways... your country was founded on terrorism...

yeah Palestinians are blowing shit up, no denying that... but just because you guys are quick to consider that terrorism and your attacks counter-terrorism, doesn't mean it's true... they're not occupying your land, you're occupying theirs

Yeah look at al-Qaeda, Hamas, Iraq, Iran, etc... and look at what they're products of... (U.S., illegal Israeli occupation of Palestine, U.S., U.S.)

Let's just compare a few situations and since you find it difficult to grasp simple concepts, I'll go nice and slow for you...
- Soviets occupy Afghanistan... Soviets are the aggressors. (Mujahideen did the exact same shit as the "insurgents"/"terrorists")
- U.S. occupies Iraq... Iraqis are insurgents.
- Israel occupies Palestine... Palestinians are terrorists.

The people who decide to call a wall 30 times larger than the Berlin Wall a fence, are talking about propaganda... LOLLLL.. seriously it's funny listening to you people




First of all terrorism is not something you can justefy based on a technicality....This is not about the definition of terrorism, I hope we all know how to define terrorism, the arguement is not about what classifies as terrorism or as counter terrorism- the debate is about right and wrong.

Even better... fuck definitions... just look at right and wrong... there is still an ILLEGAL occupation with ILLEGAL settlements in the West Bank, and the Palestinians have every right to drive out the occupation... self-determination. We won't even talk about how the state of Israel itself was established... what's taken is taken, but don't come with that right and wrong crap when you support a government that has over 60 UN resolutions against it...

Unjustefiable Killing( Killing for anything other than instantaneous self protection or assassination of openly and knowingly active war criminals)=wrong

Oh, you mean like bulldozing over peace activists.

Anyone who had encouraged this^^ represents all that is wrong.

Yeah bulldozing people is wrong, I agree... I wonder how you look at this... "she was in the way, it was an accident, etc"... all I can say is you're a fucking tool

Now I might sound a little too incisive for some of you but the reallity is that Israel as a state and as an establishment had never-ever commited this crime,to say there were no accidents I simply can not, to say there wasn't occasional malpractice I also can not-for cases like these inquiries were conducted and people had been punished but one thing for sure: Israel had never formally called for the genocide of The Palestinian people....Now I ask you this- Can the other side say the same?
Incisive? No. Full of shit? Yes.
Israel never committed this crime? LOL. You mean that the Israel government never bombed towns killing innocent women and children...? Collateral damage, right? And here you are talking about right and wrong.
Israel never formally called for the genocide... LOLLL NO SHIT! Are you that fucking retarded? Seriously, I don't even know what the fuck to say to this.... I feel like I'm talking to some retarded fruitcake with the -Stein suffix in his last name who thinks that just because he's living somewhere and has some Zionist broadcast feeding him his info, his word means more when the entire world knows what the fuck is going on.


And that's all there is to it, the occupation claims are no longer valid gentlemen, They lost all credibility as soon as your former most eminent right winger Ariel Sharon decided to pullout of gaza in complete contradiction to his infamous ideologies.
Occupation "claims"? LOLL ignoring the fact that these "claims" are still valid.... why the fuck do you call them "claims" when you know for damn well it's a fact.. ? What about the West Bank? Oh he contradicted his "kill all the Palestinians" ideology... wow you Israelis must be so mad. LOL

You keep spinning around your own tail man!Your statement is a complete tautology!It's as if you said nothing at all! I never said innocent people weren't killed, never denied this, what's the point of stating it again??
What I did say however was that Israel never commited such acts INTENTIONALLY-accidents may have occured and people may have died but sometimes to CATCH THE SNAKE you need to CUT THROUGH THE GRASS- A war is a war and those terrorists know exactly where to hide so even if they do get killed they take the entire building with them. If the Palestinian Authority was to disable these murderers within itself Israel would never have to do it but it seems like the Palestinian government gains something from these accidents and something very valuable at that for those who don't know- that is BETTER PRESS.The Palestinian Leadership knowes very well that Israel can't localize it's foiling operations to the extent innocents won't get hurt . They sacrifice the lives of their citizens intentionally for better P.R to contribute more to the demonization of Israel and to switch the public opinion in the world to their side for faster promotion of their interests and it seems to us like their succeeding.In the meantime missiles are being launched and terrorists are blowing up buses- here you have something malicious.
One more thing kid, what does a Stein suffix have to do anything with the issue?- You're starting to sound like some Nazi...When there's nothing more valid to say you resort to rasial remarks?-I'm disapointed.

Land that was conquered by Israel(after atacks that weren't initiated by Israel) and had been returned throughout the years didn't teach you anything yet?? Israel gave up Sinai once to found peace with Egypt,Israel started Oslo hoping for peace  , Israel withdrew from Lebanon for nothing in return- except for a better hope for peace- Edhud Barak was planing even further reaching steps untill Arafat decided to bail out of the Camp David agreement, Israel withdrew from Gaza>Israel has no territorial ambition whatsoever except for the basic condition of it's existence not being put in question. The so called occupation

Do you do the talking for Israeli leaders, and tell me what you think they believe? How the fuck are you going to tell me that the Israeli government never committed these acts intentionally when the leaders themselves admitted that they did? LOLLL

Israel has no territorial ambition? Again, are you telling me what you perceive... or are we gonna go by what the Israeli leaders themselves have said regarding this?

"So called occupation"...? LOLLL please tell me that you don't actually believe the West Bank is NOT being occupied by Israel?

I think you need to realize that history can't be erased, and that no matter what bullshit spin you try putting on these things... you can "think" what you want... but don't try to pass it off as reality when it's just your opinion... you can't refute facts with your opinions... "they didn't do it on purpose, they have no territorial ambitions, if this then that, if this then that"....

The problem isn't even Sharon or any of these other fucktards... it's the nature of Zionist ideology
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.

LOL @ this fudgepacker
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2005, 02:27:39 AM »
Arafat was a fucktard, I'll give you that... but...

A supporter of the Israeli government has no room to talk about terrorism.... that's like Hitler supporters calling others anti-Semitic.

Israel >>> al-Qaeda

Im not a supporter Im an Israeli citizen...Buses have exploded near my home and Kassam missiles had been launched on my former school and you tell me I shouldn't talk about terrorism? ...You're just going around spreading ungrounded slogans with nothing but speculations and quotes from anti Israeli propoganda articles to back them up...I'm gonna come up with a slogan now:

If you don't support Israel> You support Terrorism.....*and unlike yours this one had been tested*
 
and here is one more(and this one also contains correlation to the first one):

Funding the Palestinian authority=subsidizing terrorism.

One day the world will know the truth but it's gonna be too late, if spetember 11th wasn't a wake up call for you people I doubt anything will help you realize the threat our world is facing, it's not Israel's problem alone- it's global...Look at Al Qaeda,Look at Jihad and Hamas, look at Chechnia, look at Iraq, look at Iran, examine Syria...You people like to apply your double standard way too often for your own good, these are not separate problems, these are elements of the same problem. Certain power structures realized that there is a very efficient way to impose their ways on the world and you people play into their hands with your ignorance.What can I say- GOOD LUCK, hope it works out for ya.

Propaganda? Our double standards? LOL you crack me up

Anyways... your country was founded on terrorism...

yeah Palestinians are blowing shit up, no denying that... but just because you guys are quick to consider that terrorism and your attacks counter-terrorism, doesn't mean it's true... they're not occupying your land, you're occupying theirs

Yeah look at al-Qaeda, Hamas, Iraq, Iran, etc... and look at what they're products of... (U.S., illegal Israeli occupation of Palestine, U.S., U.S.)

Let's just compare a few situations and since you find it difficult to grasp simple concepts, I'll go nice and slow for you...
- Soviets occupy Afghanistan... Soviets are the aggressors. (Mujahideen did the exact same shit as the "insurgents"/"terrorists")
- U.S. occupies Iraq... Iraqis are insurgents.
- Israel occupies Palestine... Palestinians are terrorists.

The people who decide to call a wall 30 times larger than the Berlin Wall a fence, are talking about propaganda... LOLLLL.. seriously it's funny listening to you people




First of all terrorism is not something you can justefy based on a technicality....This is not about the definition of terrorism, I hope we all know how to define terrorism, the arguement is not about what classifies as terrorism or as counter terrorism- the debate is about right and wrong.

Even better... fuck definitions... just look at right and wrong... there is still an ILLEGAL occupation with ILLEGAL settlements in the West Bank, and the Palestinians have every right to drive out the occupation... self-determination. We won't even talk about how the state of Israel itself was established... what's taken is taken, but don't come with that right and wrong crap when you support a government that has over 60 UN resolutions against it...

Unjustefiable Killing( Killing for anything other than instantaneous self protection or assassination of openly and knowingly active war criminals)=wrong

Oh, you mean like bulldozing over peace activists.

Anyone who had encouraged this^^ represents all that is wrong.

Yeah bulldozing people is wrong, I agree... I wonder how you look at this... "she was in the way, it was an accident, etc"... all I can say is you're a fucking tool

Now I might sound a little too incisive for some of you but the reallity is that Israel as a state and as an establishment had never-ever commited this crime,to say there were no accidents I simply can not, to say there wasn't occasional malpractice I also can not-for cases like these inquiries were conducted and people had been punished but one thing for sure: Israel had never formally called for the genocide of The Palestinian people....Now I ask you this- Can the other side say the same?
Incisive? No. Full of shit? Yes.
Israel never committed this crime? LOL. You mean that the Israel government never bombed towns killing innocent women and children...? Collateral damage, right? And here you are talking about right and wrong.
Israel never formally called for the genocide... LOLLL NO SHIT! Are you that fucking retarded? Seriously, I don't even know what the fuck to say to this.... I feel like I'm talking to some retarded fruitcake with the -Stein suffix in his last name who thinks that just because he's living somewhere and has some Zionist broadcast feeding him his info, his word means more when the entire world knows what the fuck is going on.


And that's all there is to it, the occupation claims are no longer valid gentlemen, They lost all credibility as soon as your former most eminent right winger Ariel Sharon decided to pullout of gaza in complete contradiction to his infamous ideologies.
Occupation "claims"? LOLL ignoring the fact that these "claims" are still valid.... why the fuck do you call them "claims" when you know for damn well it's a fact.. ? What about the West Bank? Oh he contradicted his "kill all the Palestinians" ideology... wow you Israelis must be so mad. LOL

You keep spinning around your own tail man!Your statement is a complete tautology!It's as if you said nothing at all! I never said innocent people weren't killed, never denied this, what's the point of stating it again??
What I did say however was that Israel never commited such acts INTENTIONALLY-accidents may have occured and people may have died but sometimes to CATCH THE SNAKE you need to CUT THROUGH THE GRASS- A war is a war and those terrorists know exactly where to hide so even if they do get killed they take the entire building with them. If the Palestinian Authority was to disable these murderers within itself Israel would never have to do it but it seems like the Palestinian government gains something from these accidents and something very valuable at that for those who don't know- that is BETTER PRESS.The Palestinian Leadership knowes very well that Israel can't localize it's foiling operations to the extent innocents won't get hurt . They sacrifice the lives of their citizens intentionally for better P.R to contribute more to the demonization of Israel and to switch the public opinion in the world to their side for faster promotion of their interests and it seems to us like their succeeding.In the meantime missiles are being launched and terrorists are blowing up buses- here you have something malicious.
One more thing kid, what does a Stein suffix have to do anything with the issue?- You're starting to sound like some Nazi...When there's nothing more valid to say you resort to rasial remarks?-I'm disapointed.

Land that was conquered by Israel(after atacks that weren't initiated by Israel) and had been returned throughout the years didn't teach you anything yet?? Israel gave up Sinai once to found peace with Egypt,Israel started Oslo hoping for peace  , Israel withdrew from Lebanon for nothing in return- except for a better hope for peace- Edhud Barak was planing even further reaching steps untill Arafat decided to bail out of the Camp David agreement, Israel withdrew from Gaza>Israel has no territorial ambition whatsoever except for the basic condition of it's existence not being put in question. The so called occupation

Do you do the talking for Israeli leaders, and tell me what you think they believe? How the fuck are you going to tell me that the Israeli government never committed these acts intentionally when the leaders themselves admitted that they did? LOLLL

Israel has no territorial ambition? Again, are you telling me what you perceive... or are we gonna go by what the Israeli leaders themselves have said regarding this?

"So called occupation"...? LOLLL please tell me that you don't actually believe the West Bank is NOT being occupied by Israel?

I think you need to realize that history can't be erased, and that no matter what bullshit spin you try putting on these things... you can "think" what you want... but don't try to pass it off as reality when it's just your opinion... you can't refute facts with your opinions... "they didn't do it on purpose, they have no territorial ambitions, if this then that, if this then that"....

The problem isn't even Sharon or any of these other fucktards... it's the nature of Zionist ideology


Zionism- Jewish  movement that has had as it's goal the creation and support of a Jewish national state in (what was known as) Palestine, the ancient homeland of the Jews (Hebrew:"Eretz Yisrael"-The Land Of Israel).

^^^This is the nature of the Zionist ideology. If this is your or anyone's problem with Israel or with Jews there is nothing to argue about, you're simply against the existence of Israel.

*I wrote a few lines in response about you dubbing Israeli leaders with concepts they have never expressed and about leaders in democracies reflecting a consensus of the people-something that would mean you suggested that Israelis as a whole strive to annihilate Palestinian civilians- which is complete bullshit but then I noticed your closing argument and it suddenly hit me, people like you simply want Israel off the world's map.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2005, 03:59:27 AM »
the problem with the ideoligy is that it blinds your concepts of right and wrong, you've already got a state with internationally recognised borders even the arab league said they would all recognise israel if you retreated to those borders arafrat said this too....

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2005, 05:41:00 AM »
you've already got a state with internationally recognised borders even the arab league said they would all recognise israel if you retreated to those borders arafrat said this too....

Tell this to the Hamas and the Jihad leaders and while you're at it tell it to Nasralah and the Hizballah as well- More than once have they stated that their ultimate goal was to remove Israel from the map and frankly I believe them, after all they've done so much to prove their determination...We're not the ones blinded with hatred. About the Arab league now, YOU SAID IT, this is exactly why they are so supportive of actions against Israel. The Arab league, may I remind you, consists among others of those nations that at the time initiated the attacks against Israel, the infamous occupation you so very much like to mention is primarily their fault and is a direct result of their hostility toward Israel, their not so hidden agenda here is to regain what they have tried to conquer at the time and failed . Have you ever wondered how would the middle east look like if Israel were to loose some of the wars we've historically won?- How would it work out for the Palestinian people?....think about it, you think their in a bad situation now?-Have you heared about Black September?- Do you know how much their Muslim Brothers love them?. So yeah, we're living in a new age of political correctness where leaders gain international support in return for something as simple as proclamation of long term agendas, if the Arab league cared so much about the Palestinians' right for Self Determination why did they atempt to take over their territory?-lol please tell me they wanted to conquer the land to grant the Palestinians with a state!
« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 05:22:19 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

J @ M @ L

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2005, 12:20:20 PM »
Now you're making assumptions about what I think. The problem is Zionist ideology because in the definition you chose to post, it even states "the ANCIENT Jewish homeland".

Then YOU say that I want Israel off the world's map.... which is complete bullshit, but then again, that's expected from someone who blindly supports the Israeli regime and really has no argument except false accusations about what the other person believes.... if you want to know what I really think is that Israel should've never been created in the first place... especially not in the way that it was.

Ben Gurion himself has stated that: "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal: we have TAKEN THEIR COUNTRY. It is true God promised it to us, but how would that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"

You also have to understand that people don't just let others come and take their land without resistance... the Zionists knew what they were getting into... so everytime you see a bus blow up, to them that's just a few people lost for a greater cause.

Next time don't assume to know what I believe... if you have no argument because you support a government that's killing thousands and thousands of innocent people, then just say so...

my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.

LOL @ this fudgepacker
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2005, 01:01:23 PM »
if you want to know what I really think is that Israel should've never been created in the first place... especially not in the way that it was.

I believe my assumption wasn't as farfetched after all, especially when it wasn't an assumption but merely a conclusion of your words- a simplification. So thank you Jamal, for reinforcing my point.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

J Bananas

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2005, 02:27:26 PM »
you said probe.
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2005, 05:25:06 PM »
if you want to know what I really think is that Israel should've never been created in the first place... especially not in the way that it was.

I believe my assumption wasn't as farfetched after all, especially when it wasn't an assumption but merely a conclusion of your words- a simplification. So thank you Jamal, for reinforcing my point.
its my belief israel should have never been given palestine, they should have been given a part of germany but whats done is done and they should retreat to the recognised borders and end the occupation.

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

J @ M @ L

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2005, 11:07:26 PM »
if you want to know what I really think is that Israel should've never been created in the first place... especially not in the way that it was.

I believe my assumption wasn't as farfetched after all, especially when it wasn't an assumption but merely a conclusion of your words- a simplification. So thank you Jamal, for reinforcing my point.

LOL... you're pathetic. You made a conclusion based on what you perceived my words to mean... which is an assumption... which is fine, but AFTER I tell you exactly what I mean and what I believe... you still hold onto that because you know I'm right... LOL how did I reinforce your point, when I just told you that your assumption about me was wrong.... basically what this has come down to is you telling me that you know better than I do what I think or believe... LOLLLL just drop it chump... you're a lost cause... my work is done here... you're beneath my level... go argue with the Jomes and Rampants...
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.

LOL @ this fudgepacker
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2005, 03:10:17 AM »
if you want to know what I really think is that Israel should've never been created in the first place... especially not in the way that it was.

I believe my assumption wasn't as farfetched after all, especially when it wasn't an assumption but merely a conclusion of your words- a simplification. So thank you Jamal, for reinforcing my point.

LOL... you're pathetic. You made a conclusion based on what you perceived my words to mean... which is an assumption... which is fine, but AFTER I tell you exactly what I mean and what I believe... you still hold onto that because you know I'm right... LOL how did I reinforce your point, when I just told you that your assumption about me was wrong.... basically what this has come down to is you telling me that you know better than I do what I think or believe... LOLLLL just drop it chump... you're a lost cause... my work is done here... you're beneath my level... go argue with the Jomes and Rampants...

Well I guess this is the closest you get to admitting you're wrong, you know, by leading the debate off topic, ok I get that, although it seems like you can't even do that right- so you go and stumble on your own words-  being against Israel's existence to begin with=thinking it would be better if Israel didn't exist at all, so yea,just like the Arab league you adapt to the default option like a first class working girl, oh well, Israel exist's so you have to camouflage your agenda under a politicaly correct flag which is -"The Self Determination Right Of The Palestinians" (see my reply to Don Rizzle) although you don't qualify in anyway to be a spokesperson for the Arab world and the Palestinians in particular, trust me they've got the big guns there, rest your immature mind-those people could convince you that Israel is negotiating with UFOs,I guess you should know. Since you're just a byproduct of their propoganda-  I'll give you one thing- You would very much like for the Palestinian side to be the righteous one,right, so technically there is no comouflaging of agenda on your part since you're transparent.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 03:19:42 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Now_Im_Not_Banned

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2005, 10:12:53 AM »
I think I Geezy speaks a lot better english than anyone I saw during my 1 month stay in Israel this summer...You're a very intelligent man, I'm glad we have at least one intelligent person putting in some work for our peeps in the "Train of Thought". I know I'm way too uninspired to even type up more than a sentence regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I mean, I used to, but that shit is nothin' but circles...PeACe
 

Now_Im_Not_Banned

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2005, 10:13:30 AM »
PS...That's gangsta how you've kept your sig the same for all these years...LOL@REL producing for your album.
 

J @ M @ L

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2005, 02:27:11 PM »
if you want to know what I really think is that Israel should've never been created in the first place... especially not in the way that it was.

I believe my assumption wasn't as farfetched after all, especially when it wasn't an assumption but merely a conclusion of your words- a simplification. So thank you Jamal, for reinforcing my point.

LOL... you're pathetic. You made a conclusion based on what you perceived my words to mean... which is an assumption... which is fine, but AFTER I tell you exactly what I mean and what I believe... you still hold onto that because you know I'm right... LOL how did I reinforce your point, when I just told you that your assumption about me was wrong.... basically what this has come down to is you telling me that you know better than I do what I think or believe... LOLLLL just drop it chump... you're a lost cause... my work is done here... you're beneath my level... go argue with the Jomes and Rampants...

Well I guess this is the closest you get to admitting you're wrong, you know, by leading the debate off topic, ok I get that, although it seems like you can't even do that right- so you go and stumble on your own words-  being against Israel's existence to begin with=thinking it would be better if Israel didn't exist at all, so yea,just like the Arab league you adapt to the default option like a first class working girl, oh well, Israel exist's so you have to camouflage your agenda under a politicaly correct flag which is -"The Self Determination Right Of The Palestinians" (see my reply to Don Rizzle) although you don't qualify in anyway to be a spokesperson for the Arab world and the Palestinians in particular, trust me they've got the big guns there, rest your immature mind-those people could convince you that Israel is negotiating with UFOs,I guess you should know. Since you're just a byproduct of their propoganda-  I'll give you one thing- You would very much like for the Palestinian side to be the righteous one,right, so technically there is no comouflaging of agenda on your part since you're transparent.

How did I lead the debate off topic when you're the one that ignored my entire post and simply stated that you still believe that your assumptions about me were correct... and all I did was respond to that.... LOLL so you go off topic, and I respond... and that means that I'm the one that went off topic... great logic you got.

I'm not putting anything under a politically correct flag... I've said it before and I'll say it again... Israel exists now, and there's nothing anybody can do about that... but do I think that the Zionists had the right to just come and take the land? No.... but the Jews living there today aren't at fault... they had nothing to do with what happened... they have homes and lives there now, and shouldn't be pushed off the land like the Palestinians were/are...

LOLL and when the fuck did I claim to be a spokesperson for the Arab world? You love pulling shit out of your ass... as a matter of fact, it was you speaking on behalf of the Israeli leaders telling me why YOU THINK they did what they did... I'm a byproduct of propaganda? I haven't even stated anything remotely close to being propaganda... I guess the barrier that's 30 times larger than the Berlin Wall really is a fence then... and only dumbasses who fall victim to propaganda would be stupid enough to actually believe it was a wall. LOLLL you're flip floppin like a schizophrenic John Kerry...  first you tell me that you don't think Israeli leaders did anything on purpose (you speaking on behalf of them), then you tell me what my views and beliefs are, then when I respond to that and inform you what it is I really believe, then you say I went off topic and tell me that I'm no spokesperson for the Arab world when it was you speaking on behalf of Zionist murderers and their motives...

Let me ask you 1 simple question... there is nothing subjective about this... If Israel wants to build a fence (since I'm a victim of propaganda I'd like to call it a wall since it's 30 times larger than the Berlin WALL)... but if Israel wants to build one for its protection, which it has the right to do.... why doesn't it build it on the Green Line...and instead decides to cut into Palestinian territory (bulldozing more homes, cutting down more of their trees knowing they depend on agriculture, etc)... why steal even more land? And is that justified? The International Court doesn't seem to think so, but then again... who the hell are they... I mean we got I Geezy saying it's okay... LOLL you guys are all the same


And NIK is right, this does just go in circles... the reason for that is that you can't or aren't willing to notice the flaws on the side you support... so being in denial you jump all over the place like a dog in the dark trying to find a way out...
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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2005, 03:42:58 PM »
if you want to know what I really think is that Israel should've never been created in the first place... especially not in the way that it was.

I believe my assumption wasn't as farfetched after all, especially when it wasn't an assumption but merely a conclusion of your words- a simplification. So thank you Jamal, for reinforcing my point.

LOL... you're pathetic. You made a conclusion based on what you perceived my words to mean... which is an assumption... which is fine, but AFTER I tell you exactly what I mean and what I believe... you still hold onto that because you know I'm right... LOL how did I reinforce your point, when I just told you that your assumption about me was wrong.... basically what this has come down to is you telling me that you know better than I do what I think or believe... LOLLLL just drop it chump... you're a lost cause... my work is done here... you're beneath my level... go argue with the Jomes and Rampants...

Well I guess this is the closest you get to admitting you're wrong, you know, by leading the debate off topic, ok I get that, although it seems like you can't even do that right- so you go and stumble on your own words-  being against Israel's existence to begin with=thinking it would be better if Israel didn't exist at all, so yea,just like the Arab league you adapt to the default option like a first class working girl, oh well, Israel exist's so you have to camouflage your agenda under a politicaly correct flag which is -"The Self Determination Right Of The Palestinians" (see my reply to Don Rizzle) although you don't qualify in anyway to be a spokesperson for the Arab world and the Palestinians in particular, trust me they've got the big guns there, rest your immature mind-those people could convince you that Israel is negotiating with UFOs,I guess you should know. Since you're just a byproduct of their propoganda-  I'll give you one thing- You would very much like for the Palestinian side to be the righteous one,right, so technically there is no comouflaging of agenda on your part since you're transparent.

How did I lead the debate off topic when you're the one that ignored my entire post and simply stated that you still believe that your assumptions about me were correct... and all I did was respond to that.... LOLL so you go off topic, and I respond... and that means that I'm the one that went off topic... great logic you got.

I'm not putting anything under a politically correct flag... I've said it before and I'll say it again... Israel exists now, and there's nothing anybody can do about that... but do I think that the Zionists had the right to just come and take the land? No.... but the Jews living there today aren't at fault... they had nothing to do with what happened... they have homes and lives there now, and shouldn't be pushed off the land like the Palestinians were/are...

LOLL and when the fuck did I claim to be a spokesperson for the Arab world? You love pulling shit out of your ass... as a matter of fact, it was you speaking on behalf of the Israeli leaders telling me why YOU THINK they did what they did... I'm a byproduct of propaganda? I haven't even stated anything remotely close to being propaganda... I guess the barrier that's 30 times larger than the Berlin Wall really is a fence then... and only dumbasses who fall victim to propaganda would be stupid enough to actually believe it was a wall. LOLLL you're flip floppin like a schizophrenic John Kerry...  first you tell me that you don't think Israeli leaders did anything on purpose (you speaking on behalf of them), then you tell me what my views and beliefs are, then when I respond to that and inform you what it is I really believe, then you say I went off topic and tell me that I'm no spokesperson for the Arab world when it was you speaking on behalf of Zionist murderers and their motives...

Let me ask you 1 simple question... there is nothing subjective about this... If Israel wants to build a fence (since I'm a victim of propaganda I'd like to call it a wall since it's 30 times larger than the Berlin WALL)... but if Israel wants to build one for its protection, which it has the right to do.... why doesn't it build it on the Green Line...and instead decides to cut into Palestinian territory (bulldozing more homes, cutting down more of their trees knowing they depend on agriculture, etc)... why steal even more land? And is that justified? The International Court doesn't seem to think so, but then again... who the hell are they... I mean we got I Geezy saying it's okay... LOLL you guys are all the same


And NIK is right, this does just go in circles... the reason for that is that you can't or aren't willing to notice the flaws on the side you support... so being in denial you jump all over the place like a dog in the dark trying to find a way out...

Thanks for returning to the topic, good to know my last post didn't go unnoticed- I'll even overlook your sorry response to my last post ;). Let me answer your question now- I personaly am against the mere concept of this so called separation fence in the form in which it was presented to the public just like I was against the disengagement in the form in which it was presented, I don't think it will  be helpfull to either one of the sides....Understand one thing, my frustration with the conduct of the Palestinian side,while primary and prominent, is always accompanied with criticism toward Israel as well, I think Israel's, my, government should've come up with a number of better moves on it's way to a peace treaty, on it's part,everything from the timing to the execution is not quite to my liking, Israel has an enormous internal public debate, we're a democracy, as I have said already our leadership reflects the middle ground of this public debate, a consensus. We still have an unresolved problem with the population known as "Israeli Arabs" who are Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, who live within Israel's borders and who entirely support the Palestinian side (When I say entirely, I mean that a large percentage of the population is also in support of terrorist acts against Israel) with many incidents of cooperation and complicity with terrorists as well as initiation, moreover, this potentially explosive population layer is fairly represented in the Israeli Parliament( The Kneset) as it is customary to a democratic regime. You've mentioned that the fence shouldn't be cuting through Palestinian territory and I say- what's the purpose of it when we still have Potential terrorists within our own territory ready to kill as many civilians as Hamas and Jihad leaders will order them to, build it on neutral territory?- I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD BUILD IT ANYWHERE.
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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2005, 04:02:57 PM »
"Thanks for returning to the topic, good to know my last post didn't go unnoticed- I'll even overlook your sorry response to my last post"

Yeah, you went off-topic and I returned to it.... and you're right, your post didn't go unnoticed, only mine do  :)

Anyways, you've answered my question, and I agree that the wall should not be built.
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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2005, 04:14:30 PM »
Yeah, you went off-topic and I returned to it....

lol...This seems to trouble you but to me "going off topic" was when you switched it from debating on the issue to my alleged misinterpretation of your anti-zionist statement...FYI
Zionism implies the creation of a Jewish state on the land on which Israel is today.
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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2005, 04:36:37 PM »
Zionism implies the creation of a Jewish state on the land on which Israel is today.

We both know it's far more complex than that.... but let's say that this is all there was to it... what gives any group of people the right to go and kick people off a land to make it their own? My point is that things went wrong right from the start... shit has just been chaos since...

Anyways, I went to a lecture here at UCLA last night... it was by an organization called One Voice.. it's Palestinians and Israelis uniting to find a path towards peace... Jason Alexander (George on Seinfeld) was one of the members speaking... they have gone out to the streets of Israeli and Palestinian villages/towns/cities and a majority of the people they have talked to on both sides want peace ASAP... the problem is that the extremists on both sides have more control, and sadly are focused on more by our media... basically the moderates are kinda pushed out of the picture even though they are the majority.... the average citizen wants a solution but the extremists have their agendas to push and often times they're not really risking anything except lives other than their own...
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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2005, 03:14:21 AM »
Zionism implies the creation of a Jewish state on the land on which Israel is today.

We both know it's far more complex than that.... but let's say that this is all there was to it... what gives any group of people the right to go and kick people off a land to make it their own? My point is that things went wrong right from the start... shit has just been chaos since...

Anyways, I went to a lecture here at UCLA last night... it was by an organization called One Voice.. it's Palestinians and Israelis uniting to find a path towards peace... Jason Alexander (George on Seinfeld) was one of the members speaking... they have gone out to the streets of Israeli and Palestinian villages/towns/cities and a majority of the people they have talked to on both sides want peace ASAP... the problem is that the extremists on both sides have more control, and sadly are focused on more by our media... basically the moderates are kinda pushed out of the picture even though they are the majority.... the average citizen wants a solution but the extremists have their agendas to push and often times they're not really risking anything except lives other than their own...

Often when the situation prior to the declaration of Israel is discussed people are often mislead. When Jews first started arriving to this land from Europe they've encountered the Turks, Jews that would come years later would encounter the Brits. It was always a mandate along with a percentage of seemingly native population that greeted the Jewish pioneers, which for the most part consisted of Arabs and a small percentage of native Jews. The native Arab population consisted for the most part of agriculturists and farmers. Those farmers whose assets were larger owned lands,plantations and meadows(owning land at the time of the mandate involved taxing and sometimes the land had been bought from the authorities themselves), those whose assets were smaller either worked for the Sheiks or stuck to the Beduin custom of wondering from place to place, at times they would wonder outside of Palestine meanwhile others would wonder into Palestine. These people never had a self determination agenda, they never intended to found their own national home, since they did not consider themselves a nation,it was a multi layered tribal community, furthermore, some of the tribes where utterly hostile toward one another- blood vengeance and pirating went back to the dawn of Islam, and they weren't strangers to these customs. When the first Jews arrived they came with one mission and one mission only- to found a Jewish National Home-Zionism, they have begun buying lands from Sheiks(who were eager to get rid of putrid, swampy land for relatively big prices) and to cultivate the land, many low asset farmers where employed by Jews during those times and since Jews had long term plans more of these farmers settled down-they had a permanent work place, big portions of the land that was bought were covered with swamps, malaria was harvesting the population, many died in agony, they started planting Eucalyptuses that were known to suck in swamps, after years of work the land blossomed.
The ones who opposed the founding of a Jewish state in Palestine the most throughout history weren't the Palestinians- Those were Syria and Egypt....their leaders dreamt to unite in a single state, bridging through Palestine. Israel's war of independence in 48 right after it's declaration was a common effort of the Arab nations to remove Israel but the seed of self determination was planted into the natives' collective conscience by the same Sheiks or their heirs (who once had assets in Palestine and sold them, who now wanted to regain their rejuvenated and improved land without having to pay.*see under "The right of return"* ) prior to the declaration of the Jewish state and there's even been an offer to create a binational state but the Sheiks who had  their puppet freedom fighters within Palestine maneuvered them to decline. The rest is history.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2005, 03:19:44 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2005, 03:39:22 AM »
That's a nice rosy story... you've got the broad picture down... but you're missing a lot of things. Once you can be honest with yourself... you'll realize that you have nothing to lose by telling the whole truth on what you know... instead of posting about historic facts and events which include Jewish terrorism and slaughter of Palestinians, I'm just going to stick to the point and show you that there's more to Zionism than just the establishment of a Jewish home... because that's the goal, yes, but the ideology entails more, and the means to justify that end isn't as rosy as you'd like to believe.... so instead of talking out of my ass, like you do, I'm just going to let the guys who were a part of this movement, and quite frankly, who know a lot more about it than you or I, do the talking....

What did Theodore Herzl state in the "Complete Diaries" (1895)?
"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

How about Joseph Weitz of the Jewish Agencys Colonization Department (1940) which was responsible for the actual organization of settlements in Palestine?
"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both parties together in this country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries - all of them. Not one village, not one tribe should be left."

By the way, if you want a better understanding of the complexity Zionism entails, I suggest you read "The Iron Wall" by Vladimir Jabotinsky who was the founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud).... here's a couple quotes that will show you what I mean when I say that Zionism is more than just "a Jewish homeland"... it's an ideology that entails a lot more than that....

"Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population - an iron wall, which will be in position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is, in total, our policy towards the Arabs..."

"If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempts to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE! Zionism is a colonizing adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force....it is important to be able to shoot-or else I am through with playing at colonialization."

As you can see... in order for the Zionists to achieve their goal, they have to do a lot of not so nice things...



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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2005, 06:45:01 AM »
That's a nice rosy story... you've got the broad picture down... but you're missing a lot of things. Once you can be honest with yourself... you'll realize that you have nothing to lose by telling the whole truth on what you know... instead of posting about historic facts and events which include Jewish terrorism and slaughter of Palestinians, I'm just going to stick to the point and show you that there's more to Zionism than just the establishment of a Jewish home... because that's the goal, yes, but the ideology entails more, and the means to justify that end isn't as rosy as you'd like to believe.... so instead of talking out of my ass, like you do, I'm just going to let the guys who were a part of this movement, and quite frankly, who know a lot more about it than you or I, do the talking....

What did Theodore Herzl state in the "Complete Diaries" (1895)?
"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

How about Joseph Weitz of the Jewish Agencys Colonization Department (1940) which was responsible for the actual organization of settlements in Palestine?
"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both parties together in this country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries - all of them. Not one village, not one tribe should be left."

By the way, if you want a better understanding of the complexity Zionism entails, I suggest you read "The Iron Wall" by Vladimir Jabotinsky who was the founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud).... here's a couple quotes that will show you what I mean when I say that Zionism is more than just "a Jewish homeland"... it's an ideology that entails a lot more than that....

"Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population - an iron wall, which will be in position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is, in total, our policy towards the Arabs..."

"If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempts to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE! Zionism is a colonizing adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force....it is important to be able to shoot-or else I am through with playing at colonialization."

As you can see... in order for the Zionists to achieve their goal, they have to do a lot of not so nice things...

Your quotes from Herzel belong to a stream within Zionism which went later to become the foundation of today's Left Wing- it's primary agenda was to generate a segregation between the 2 nations, these are the people who first came up with the transfer idealogy and whose heirs much later came up with Oslo. These were speculations and soliloquies, Theodore Herzel was the author of a number of utopian ideas, he also contributed some of his ideas to the early Zionists but not many of his ideas were executed...As you know he originally predicted the creation of a Jewish state in Uganda, the idea of transfering the native population also didn't come true. In addition I will say this, Jabotinski a right wing precursor did not believe in segregation of the 2 nations and before the Palestinian side declined he was among the supporters of a binational state (which I have already mentioned) only when the Palestinian side began to rely on hostility(something he had foreseen), means needed to be taken(-He even proclaimed to the native population that the Jewish pioneers intended to found a Jewish state, based on Jewish majority, where the natives,the Palestinians, would receive equal rights).
« Last Edit: October 21, 2005, 10:44:02 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2005, 11:11:00 AM »
That's a nice rosy story... you've got the broad picture down... but you're missing a lot of things. Once you can be honest with yourself... you'll realize that you have nothing to lose by telling the whole truth on what you know... instead of posting about historic facts and events which include Jewish terrorism and slaughter of Palestinians, I'm just going to stick to the point and show you that there's more to Zionism than just the establishment of a Jewish home... because that's the goal, yes, but the ideology entails more, and the means to justify that end isn't as rosy as you'd like to believe.... so instead of talking out of my ass, like you do, I'm just going to let the guys who were a part of this movement, and quite frankly, who know a lot more about it than you or I, do the talking....

What did Theodore Herzl state in the "Complete Diaries" (1895)?
"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

How about Joseph Weitz of the Jewish Agencys Colonization Department (1940) which was responsible for the actual organization of settlements in Palestine?
"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both parties together in this country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries - all of them. Not one village, not one tribe should be left."

By the way, if you want a better understanding of the complexity Zionism entails, I suggest you read "The Iron Wall" by Vladimir Jabotinsky who was the founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud).... here's a couple quotes that will show you what I mean when I say that Zionism is more than just "a Jewish homeland"... it's an ideology that entails a lot more than that....

"Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population - an iron wall, which will be in position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is, in total, our policy towards the Arabs..."

"If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempts to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE! Zionism is a colonizing adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force....it is important to be able to shoot-or else I am through with playing at colonialization."

As you can see... in order for the Zionists to achieve their goal, they have to do a lot of not so nice things...

Your quotes from Herzel belong to a stream within Zionism which went later to become the foundation of today's Left Wing- it's primary agenda was to generate a segregation between the 2 nations, these are the people who first came up with the transfer idealogy and whose heirs much later came up with Oslo. These were speculations and soliloquies, Theodore Herzel was the author of a number of utopian ideas, he also contributed some of his ideas to the early Zionists but not many of his ideas were executed...As you know he originally predicted the creation of a Jewish state in Uganda, the idea of transfering the native population also didn't come true. In addition I will say this, Jabotinski a right wing precursor did not believe in segregation of the 2 nations and before the Palestinian side declined he was among the supporters of a binational state (which I have already mentioned) only when the Palestinian side began to rely on hostility(something he had foreseen), means needed to be taken(-He even proclaimed to the native population that the Jewish pioneers intended to found a Jewish state, based on Jewish majority, where the natives,the Palestinians, would receive equal rights).

LOL @ your choice of words... "only when the Palestinian side began to rely on hostility"....

These were the ZIONISTS at the time when ZIONISM was established and put into effect.... these are THEIR words telling what their plans are and what must be done... what the fuck does it matter what else they predicted? Since we're on the topic of precursors... let's see what the precursor to all the propaganda you've fallen victim to is.... honestly, this one is actually funny....
"A LAND WITHOUT PEOPLE FOR A PEOPLE WITHOUT LAND"  LOL... Zionism justified itself based on this when there were hundreds of thousands of people living there and you mean to tell me there's nothing wrong with Zionist ideology.... Zionism relies on killing and removing a population of its land... Zionism = Terrorism, Oppression, etc.

Just listen to Ben Gurion... take his advice....

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. ... Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."
« Last Edit: October 21, 2005, 11:23:01 AM by JML - no vowels, disembowel your Colin Powell, throw in the towel »
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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2005, 12:55:37 PM »
That's a nice rosy story... you've got the broad picture down... but you're missing a lot of things. Once you can be honest with yourself... you'll realize that you have nothing to lose by telling the whole truth on what you know... instead of posting about historic facts and events which include Jewish terrorism and slaughter of Palestinians, I'm just going to stick to the point and show you that there's more to Zionism than just the establishment of a Jewish home... because that's the goal, yes, but the ideology entails more, and the means to justify that end isn't as rosy as you'd like to believe.... so instead of talking out of my ass, like you do, I'm just going to let the guys who were a part of this movement, and quite frankly, who know a lot more about it than you or I, do the talking....

What did Theodore Herzl state in the "Complete Diaries" (1895)?
"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

How about Joseph Weitz of the Jewish Agencys Colonization Department (1940) which was responsible for the actual organization of settlements in Palestine?
"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both parties together in this country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries - all of them. Not one village, not one tribe should be left."

By the way, if you want a better understanding of the complexity Zionism entails, I suggest you read "The Iron Wall" by Vladimir Jabotinsky who was the founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud).... here's a couple quotes that will show you what I mean when I say that Zionism is more than just "a Jewish homeland"... it's an ideology that entails a lot more than that....

"Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population - an iron wall, which will be in position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is, in total, our policy towards the Arabs..."

"If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempts to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE! Zionism is a colonizing adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force....it is important to be able to shoot-or else I am through with playing at colonialization."

As you can see... in order for the Zionists to achieve their goal, they have to do a lot of not so nice things...

Your quotes from Herzel belong to a stream within Zionism which went later to become the foundation of today's Left Wing- it's primary agenda was to generate a segregation between the 2 nations, these are the people who first came up with the transfer idealogy and whose heirs much later came up with Oslo. These were speculations and soliloquies, Theodore Herzel was the author of a number of utopian ideas, he also contributed some of his ideas to the early Zionists but not many of his ideas were executed...As you know he originally predicted the creation of a Jewish state in Uganda, the idea of transfering the native population also didn't come true. In addition I will say this, Jabotinski a right wing precursor did not believe in segregation of the 2 nations and before the Palestinian side declined he was among the supporters of a binational state (which I have already mentioned) only when the Palestinian side began to rely on hostility(something he had foreseen), means needed to be taken(-He even proclaimed to the native population that the Jewish pioneers intended to found a Jewish state, based on Jewish majority, where the natives,the Palestinians, would receive equal rights).

LOL @ your choice of words... "only when the Palestinian side began to rely on hostility"....

These were the ZIONISTS at the time when ZIONISM was established and put into effect.... these are THEIR words telling what their plans are and what must be done... what the fuck does it matter what else they predicted? Since we're on the topic of precursors... let's see what the precursor to all the propaganda you've fallen victim to is.... honestly, this one is actually funny....
"A LAND WITHOUT PEOPLE FOR A PEOPLE WITHOUT LAND"  LOL... Zionism justified itself based on this when there were hundreds of thousands of people living there and you mean to tell me there's nothing wrong with Zionist ideology.... Zionism relies on killing and removing a population of its land... Zionism = Terrorism, Oppression, etc.

Just listen to Ben Gurion... take his advice....

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. ... Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."


Your seem to have ignored my previous post entirely.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2005, 01:15:24 PM »
Actually I addressed it with this:
"These were the ZIONISTS at the time when ZIONISM was established and put into effect.... these are THEIR words telling what their plans are and what must be done... what the fuck does it matter what else they predicted?"

You seem to have ignored my post though.  :)

Like I said... this was over a long time ago... you have nothing. It's like arguing with someone who supported Hitler and the Nazis... there's no way to defend it...  :)
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.

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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2005, 03:54:55 PM »
Actually I addressed it with this:
"These were the ZIONISTS at the time when ZIONISM was established and put into effect.... these are THEIR words telling what their plans are and what must be done... what the fuck does it matter what else they predicted?"

You seem to have ignored my post though.  :)

Like I said... this was over a long time ago... you have nothing. It's like arguing with someone who supported Hitler and the Nazis... there's no way to defend it...  :)

Ok this is going to feel like wasting a post but the situation is asking for it. Man, the statements that you quoted weren't the ones to establish Zionism, the people you quoted were influenced by the idea of Zionism, they didn't invent it. They had different takes on how to manifest the idea, Jabotinski once dramatically left the Zionist Congress claiming that the congress was anything but Zionist, when it opposed him and his followers. What Im saying is that Zionism is an ideal, it's an agenda- Just like "Self Determination", and as an ideal it is defined the way I've stated before. I've also mentioned that Herzel was first and foremost a thinker, a utopian novelist, he liked to speculate with concepts and ideas so I mentioned his prediction to show that he often assumed things that were far from becoming reallity. The key leading to the understanding of factors that were responsible for triggering this seemingly perpetual feud is within my posts already and if you choose to close your eyes then so be it.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2005, 03:58:05 PM by I TO DA GEEZY »
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Re: Arafat Death Probe Inconclusive
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2005, 04:37:43 PM »
Ok this is going to feel like wasting a post but the situation is asking for it. Man, the statements that you quoted weren't the ones to establish Zionism, the people you quoted were influenced by the idea of Zionism, they didn't invent it. They had different takes on how to manifest the idea, Jabotinski once dramatically left the Zionist Congress claiming that the congress was anything but Zionist, when it opposed him and his followers. What Im saying is that Zionism is an ideal, it's an agenda- Just like "Self Determination", and as an ideal it is defined the way I've stated before. I've also mentioned that Herzel was first and foremost a thinker, a utopian novelist, he liked to speculate with concepts and ideas so I mentioned his prediction to show that he often assumed things that were far from becoming reallity. The key leading to the understanding of factors that were responsible for triggering this seemingly perpetual feud is within my posts already and if you choose to close your eyes then so be it.

Ok now you're sounding retarded.... nobody INVENTED Zionism... but if you don't think that Theodor Herzl was one of the first, if not the founder, to lead the movement, then you don't know your shit... he planned the first Zionist Congress... he wrote Der Judenstaat in 1896... the word Zionism was coined in 1890... so what the fuck are you talking about? Don't talk out of your ass.

Yeah Zionism is an agenda... and I've shown you what that agenda includes... killing and removing a population off its land. There's no way you can deny that when the people who have carried out this "idea or agenda" as you call it... and have admitted that this is the only way to do it.

It seems like you don't even know what you're arguing here... and all you're able to say is "I'm sure I've addressed that somewhere in my posts, but you didn't see it".... when the fact of the matter is that your bullshit paragraphs don't mean anything.
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.

LOL @ this fudgepacker