Author Topic: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem  (Read 2392 times)

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #120 on: December 11, 2005, 07:53:42 AM »
I can't believe you simply ignored the quoted Paragraph in my post> It is a fact

Quote
The United Nations at once provided the refugees with food, clothes, shelter, and medical attention. There was no system of identification; any Arab could register as a refugee and receive free aid. Immediately a large number of needy Arabs from various Arab countries flocked to the refugee camps, were registered, and thenceforth received their rations. Already by December 1948, when their total could not yet have reached the maximum of 425,000, the Director of the United Nations Disaster Relief Organisation, Sir Rafael Cilento, reported that he was feeding 750,000 refugees. Seven months later, the official figure had increased to a round million in the report of W. de St. Aubin, the United Nations Director of Field Operations.

The inflation of the numbers was helped not only by the understandable readiness of needy and greedy people to take advantage of free upkeep. The International Committee of the Red Cross pressed the United Nations Relief headquarters to recognise as refugees any destitute Arab in Palestine and to let him have refugee facilities in his own home. The Red Cross Committee made no effort to conceal its purpose; it claimed that it was becoming increasingly difficult to differentiate levels of need "between the refugees and the residents, as the Arab-occupied areas do not produce sufficient food or saleable goods to nourish. more than a small percentage of the resident population." If this fraudulent addition of 100,000 to the rolls for food and medical care was feasible, it would indeed be "senseless," as the Red Cross communication noted, also to force them "to abandon their homes to be able to get food as refugees." At least 100,000 ordinary Arab citizens in this category thus became refugees de luxe.


How can you refute something you haven't even read\comprehended,  poor people along the Arab world simply wrote themselves down as refugees to receive free upkeep.


And since you need help as for the so called "atrocities":

Quote
An earlier Arab eyewitness account is a stunning refutation of the libel. On the fifth anniversary of the battle, Yunes Ahmed Assad of Dir Yassin wrote in the Jordan daily Al Urdun (April 9, 1953): "The Jews never intended to hurt the population of the village but were forced to do so after they met hostile fire from the population which killed the Irgun commander." The effect of the story was immediate and electric. The British officer who had done most in the years before 1948 to build up the Transjordanian Army, General Glubb Pasha, wrote in the London Daily Mail on August 12, 1948: "The Arab civilians panicked and fled ignominiously. Villages were frequently abandoned before they were threatened by the progress of war." And the refugee from Dir Yassin, Yunes Ahmed Assad, has soberly recorded that "The Arab exodus from other villages was not caused by the actual battle, but by the exaggerated description spread by Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews" (At Urdun, April 9, 1953).




p.s  not a big sports fan so such puns are completely lost on me mate. ;)
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

J @ M @ L

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #121 on: December 11, 2005, 08:05:35 AM »
I didn't disregard your paragraph... when I was making my posts... I was talking about what you stated in point #2... the fact that SOME poor Arabs decided to classify themselves as refugees for benefits all of a sudden means there were no Palestinian refugees?

Anyways.. back to #2...

that's a nice little story... so if I post an account of people telling that what I stated is true... will you accept it as true and realize that you were wrong? or will my quote be simply considered propaganda and disregarded? just tell me what you want... a Muslim source, an arab source, a jewish source, a zionist source... ? you name it, I got it like Sam Goody's...


it's okay if you're not a big sports fan... i could explain to you that it is a person attempting to make a basket and instead just getting nothing but air, not even hitting the backboard... but all you would do is reply with "well it shouldn't be called an airball because the ball does hit the ground afterwards" and then you'd give me an encyclopedia entry on gravity to go off on your tangents...  :)



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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #122 on: December 11, 2005, 08:23:13 AM »
that's a nice little story... so if I post an account of people telling that what I stated is true... will you accept it as true and realize that you were wrong?

LMFAO...lol...

Man, this one is actually hilarious.


Now as for quoted facts, that's what I've been saying all along(and you were taking out of context,of course-look at your sig)
FACTS- YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE, FACTS- YOU HAVE TO KNOW
You're right this is not the first time we both quote things, and you're right the other person doesn't have to believe especially not if it's factual (because belief is not going to change a fact)
Do your own research, see for yourself- one can't argue/claim long as facts are unknown.

This is what I needed to hear man.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2005, 09:43:39 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
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J @ M @ L

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #123 on: December 11, 2005, 03:48:32 PM »
that's a nice little story... so if I post an account of people telling that what I stated is true... will you accept it as true and realize that you were wrong?

LMFAO...lol...

Man, this one is actually hilarious.


Now as for quoted facts, that's what I've been saying all along(and you were taking out of context,of course-look at your sig)
FACTS- YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE, FACTS- YOU HAVE TO KNOW
You're right this is not the first time we both quote things, and you're right the other person doesn't have to believe especially not if it's factual (because belief is not going to change a fact)
Do your own research, see for yourself- one can't argue/claim long as facts are unknown.

This is what I needed to hear man.

Fact: Zionists did fuck up Palestinian villages.

Zionists, including some leaders, have admitted to this. If you want to know what's hilarious, it's you trying to defend them when they themselves admit it. Ariel Sharon wasn't wanted in Belgium for no reason.

If my friend was on trial and he said he was guilty, would me stating that he isn't change anything? You really need to start using some common sense.

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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #124 on: December 12, 2005, 03:14:40 AM »

Fact: Zionists did fuck up Palestinian villages.

Zionists, including some leaders, have admitted to this.

FACT: Arab Leaders and Arab wandering preachers where the ones- to cause the so called Palestinian refugee problem and ( the way you'd put it-)to fuck them up.
FACT:Palestinian Arab population was coerced to oppose Zionism by its self-proclaimed leadership.
FACT:Palestinian Arab population was encouraged by the Brits to oppose Zionism

Testimony:
Quote
And the refugee from Dir Yassin, Yunes Ahmed Assad, has soberly recorded that "The Arab exodus from other villages was not caused by the actual battle, but by the exaggerated description spread by Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews" (At Urdun, April 9, 1953).

Quote
Even in retrospect, in an effort to describe the deliberateness of the flight, the leading Arab propagandist of the day, Edward Atiyah (then Secretary of the Arab League Office in London), reaffirmed the facts:
This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic Arab press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country. [The Arabs (London, 1955), p. 1831

And as for Zionist leaders/ politicians admiting to things:
Quote
The Zionist establishment of 1948, in its eagerness to blacken the dissident underground, helped the libel along. Only years later did the Israeli Foreign Office correct the record (in Israel's Struggle for Peace, Israel Office of Information, New York, 1960) and in an extensive statement entitled "Dir Yassin," published on March 16, 1969. An earlier Arab eyewitness account is a stunning refutation of the libel. On the fifth anniversary of the battle, Yunes Ahmed Assad of Dir Yassin wrote in the Jordan daily Al Urdun (April 9, 1953): "The Jews never intended to hurt the population of the village but were forced to do so after they met hostile fire from the population which killed the Irgun commander."


Quote
1947, and May 15, 1948, the clash was largely between bands of local Arabs, aided in diverse ways by the disintegrating British authority and the Jewish fighting organisations.

Quote
Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit. -- It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades.

Quote
The weekly As Sarih of Jaffa used even more scathing terms on March 30, 1948, to accuse the inhabitants of Sheikh Munis and other villages in the neighbourhood of Tel Aviv of "bringing down disgrace on us all" by "abandoning their villages." On May 5, the Jerusalem correspondent of the London Times was reporting: "The Arab streets are curiously deserted and, evidently following the poor example of the more moneyed class there has been an exodus from Jerusalem too, though not to the same extent as in Jaffa and Haifa."



If admitting intentions is an indication of guilt, as you would like to think, there were/are more of these proclamations in the Arab World:

Quote
Kenneth Bilby, one of the American correspondents who covered Palestine for several years before and during the war of 1948, soon afterward wrote a book on his experience and observations. In it he reported:
The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine. They viewed the first wave of Arab setbacks as merely transitory. Let the Palestine Arabs flee into neighbouring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab peoples to greater effort, and when the Arab invasion struck, the Palestinians could return to their homes and be compensated with the property of Jews driven into the sea. [New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31]

The difference,however, is that Arab leaders mostly thought their admitted intentions(in the destruction of Zionism and it's goal-Israel) were legitimate and therefore presented them as such(even if they had an opposition within the Arab world- who the hell would hear it in a totalitarian regime?) while among the Zionists you could see differenet approaches to the issue, some overly dramatic and apologetic others overly practical. Something that, like in the case of Ben-Gurion, is an indication social sensitivity and justice.






p.s Here's what you guys are a product of:
Quote
The transfer of blame to the Jews was first of all a natural act of self-exculpation by the Arab leaders. It soon became a powerful propaganda weapon in the general war against Israel. Even sophisticated Arab apologists, pressed at times by the courtesies of debate to meet the challenge of the facts, parry the question. Thus, Albert Hourani, in an article in the London Observer on September 3, 1967, talks of the "myth that the Arabs left willingly under orders from their leaders." "No more than the most tenuous evidence was produced for this," writes Mr. Hourani. How many of his readers would know the facts, would know that Mr. Hourani's own words represented an act of collaboration in a monstrous fraud perpetuated by the Arab leaders responsible for the refugee problem?





 
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J @ M @ L

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #125 on: December 12, 2005, 04:13:07 AM »
while among the Zionists you could see differenet approaches to the issue, some overly dramatic and apologetic others overly practical. Something that, like in the case of Ben-Gurion, is an indication social sensitivity and justice.

Thank You... why do you waste your time arguing, if at the end you're going to agree with me and come to the conclusion that I am right...

They wouldn't admit to something they hadn't done... so obviously if some decided to be "apologetic" because of "social sensitivity and justice" then obviously something must've happened.

Thanks again for finally making it clear and admitting that I'm right... I told you.. you can try to dance in circles with me all you want, but you're gonna keep trippin all over the place trying to keep up with me  8)

shalom
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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #126 on: December 12, 2005, 04:21:01 AM »
while among the Zionists you could see differenet approaches to the issue, some overly dramatic and apologetic others overly practical. Something that, like in the case of Ben-Gurion, is an indication social sensitivity and justice.

Thank You... why do you waste your time arguing, if at the end you're going to agree with me and come to the conclusion that I am right...

They wouldn't admit to something they hadn't done... so obviously if some decided to be "apologetic" because of "social sensitivity and justice" then obviously something must've happened.

Thanks again for finally making it clear and admitting that I'm right... I told you.. you can try to dance in circles with me all you want, but you're gonna keep trippin all over the place trying to keep up with me  8)

shalom

lol I must say that your aspiration to, somehow, WIN an internet debate is extremely mature.
I like how you ignored the part about Arab Leaders not hiding their agenda as for destruction\murder of Israel\Zionism\Jews in general for all these years.
Also, how you ignored the fact they would have no "apologetic" or "socially aware" opinions aired(if they negate the leadership's interest) from within their states since they are all totalitarian regimes.
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J @ M @ L

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #127 on: December 12, 2005, 04:34:38 AM »
Ok, so you want me to say that Arab leaders are fucked up TOO... there.. does that change anything, add to my/your argument, or take anything away? LOL...

the fact that you already agreed with me and proved my point is enough... do I really need to tell you that "I agree with you on this and this... "    if you want some sort of appreciation for the quotes you pulled up.. look elsewhere...

I'm glad you've finally come to realize (or admit) the truth...  :)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 04:38:10 AM by JML - no vowels, disembowel your Colin Powell, throw in the towel »
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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #128 on: December 12, 2005, 04:59:36 AM »
Ok, so you want me to say that Arab leaders are fucked up TOO... there.. does that change anything, add to my/your argument, or take anything away? LOL...

the fact that you already agreed with me and proved my point is enough... do I really need to tell you that "I agree with you on this and this... "    if you want some sort of appreciation for the quotes you pulled up.. look elsewhere...

I'm glad you've finally come to realize (or admit) the truth...  :)

lol... many Jeiwsh takes on the situation have been aired, of all sorts(from left to right), it's a fact- I can't agree or disagree, it's a fact.
Is this new to you?
Primarily one sort of Arab takes has been aired, since we're talking about totalitrian regimes(meaning,if you're against the leadership you aren't heared), also a fact.

Which side is more socially sensitive to the other side then?
Where is the higher amount of objectivity? :)

Don't forget, the argument was not wether those Zionist takes that have been aired, on the situation, were real, it was "The right of return".


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J @ M @ L

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #129 on: December 12, 2005, 06:21:03 AM »
See... you went from denying that Palestinians have been victims of Zionism to asking which side was more "socially sensitive"... that's all I really wanted.. for you to finally admit my initial statement was correct... but to answer your question... yes you're right, the Israeli side is more apologetic... but that's primarily because they have a lot more to apologize for  :)   As far as the highest amount of objectivity... that would come from the moderates on both sides... it's only too bad that the media often ignores this group from both sides.. and only focuses on the extremists/radicals from both sides.. however, none of this changes the fact that you have finally agreed with me... I'm glad.. not because I'm right and you were wrong.. rather due to the fact that you've finally realized or admitted the truth.  :)

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #130 on: December 12, 2005, 09:15:40 AM »
I feel like Jordan being challenged by some chump on the streets who's airballing the whole time



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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #131 on: December 12, 2005, 10:51:16 AM »
but to answer your question... yes you're right, the Israeli side is more apologetic... but that's primarily because they have a lot more to apologize for  :)   

Yeah man,I bet it has nothing to do with the fact Arab States are totalitarian ::)

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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #132 on: December 12, 2005, 10:53:07 AM »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #133 on: December 12, 2005, 12:22:30 PM »
Check out the topical distribution in this article man. Could it be more all over the place?-The common denominator drawn out of this,however, is that Israel is fucked up. :)
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J @ M @ L

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Re: EU slams Israel for its policies in East Jerusalem
« Reply #134 on: December 13, 2005, 07:20:39 AM »
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