Food for thought.. Tookies words examined.

[NFX]

I'm not looking to get hate mail or cause a ruckus but I thought about some things today. I am exaggerating a few things to make a point and I partake in some of this stuff too so I may sound hypocritical.

Tookie wrote:
“I believe the core of it is an embedded sense of self-hate. What I mean by that is, an individual who has been spoon-fed so many derogatory images of his race will, after a period of time, start to believe those images. The images I’m talking about are stereotypes that depict the majority of blacks as being buffoons, functional illiterates, violent and promiscuous, welfare recipients, indolent criminals. Unfortunately, too many black people have been brainwashed into believing these stereotypes . . . "

The images and stereo types he's talking about are indeed true to a large extent in hip-hop culture.

Buffoons - Pimped out in a lime green suit and gators and carrying a bejeweled drinking cup? Tatted head to toe is where it's at. Better to look cool and thuggish than square right? And anyone whose been to chuuch knows that Sunday suits in the church can be mighty pimpish. Go ask Steve Harvey.

functional illeterates - ghetto slang has risen over the years. remember when "scurred" was pronounced "scared"? Or how about tha dayz when it wuz cool 2 be fuccin wit wordz spelt tha way they wuz s'posed 2 be. Naw'mean?

violent - Anyone whose heard any hip hop since the mid 90's knows whats up. Do not front on this. Hip hop is most violent in imagery. Even if the majority of fans aren't, they sure do like hearing about people getting shot.

promiscuity - I'm not a playa I just fuck a lot. yeah next to violence and materiel wealth, there's pussy and lots of it. Even the bitches talking about that shit. You down with OPP?

So when someone like Tookie says "too many black people have been brainwashed into believing these stereotypes" he's right, but what most people fail to realize is where that message and those stereo types come from. It's easy to blame the white devil, and a lot harder to look in the mirror.

Now let's be real and say that a majority of folks know that they can't and won't live life running around tatted up, pimped out, iced, riding on 24s, talking like they've been shot in the jaw and forgot the english vocabulary, intimidating everyone that disagrees, shootin up the block, fucking bitches, etc etc.. Most of us realize it's entertainment. The problem is those who don't realize it and think keepin it real is all of those things I just mentioned. It's usually the younger crowd trying to fit into the lifestyle of their favorite hero.

So what to do? What can be done? I won't stop buying rap CDs because I like that shit. But I'm smart enough to know where reality and fantasy meet and which area I'm playing in at any given moment. The only thing I can offer is a vision of the truth (or at least MY version of it) and let those who can see that truth decide for themselves and hopefully be strong enough not to fall.

[Lincoln]

I liked that. I agree.

[J Bananas]

I agree with you a lot, but pitch that to black people and you'll prolly get hurt. they are a proud, ignorant race.

[Javier]

I agree with you a lot, but pitch that to black people and you'll prolly get hurt. they are a proud, ignorant race.

Pitch anything intelligent to any group of ignorant people and you'll get the same result.  I dont believe its a color issue

[white Boy]

who is tookie?

[Sikotic™]

Bill Cosby says the same thing and people put him down and call him an uncle tom now.

[Shallow]

Bill Cosby says the same thing and people put him down and call him an uncle tom now.

That's probably because they're jealous that Cosby saw it for what it was and wisey avoided it, rather than suffer because of it and realize only after he did "real" things like join gangs, talk like an idiot, shoot people, get shot, or rob stores.

Anytime some one is trapped in something they resent the one that warned them about it but never actually experienced it. It's like how drug addicts take the words of former addicts with more authority than the same words from someone that had never taken drugs. Both are right but people are so stupid in general they need to hear the same shit from someone they think has the right to say it before they listen. (It's not too different from the Immortal Technique quote we discussed yesterday). It's that whole "you don't understand" because "you've" never done it bullshit false logic people cling too. Like when I lecture kids in my area about skipping school to smoke weed they respond with the same shit because I don't smoke weed. I've never jumped in fire either but I'm pretty sure it's going to burn me.

Some Philosopher said something along the lines of "what does it matter who I am or what I've done if what I say is true, and you can learn from it". Not sure who it was or how it was worded but that's the basic meaning of it. People refuse to listen to know hypocrites and people they know have no authority on the subject at hand, but the woorst thing you can do in the case is refure to listen and do the opposite to spite that person, when you know what they said was right.

[7even]

Selling-out is the issue right there

[Eihtball]

So when someone like Tookie says "too many black people have been brainwashed into believing these stereotypes" he's right, but what most people fail to realize is where that message and those stereo types come from. It's easy to blame the white devil, and a lot harder to look in the mirror.

I hate to break it to you, but the "white devil" still holds at least SOME share of the responsibility (if not the majority).  Everything you've said is true, but the simple fact (and we've discussed this in other topics) is that hip-hop wasn't an art form that glorified ignorance, violence, and sexual promiscuity until the music industry got "hip" to its marketable potential to sell to white folks.  What hip-hop has become nowadays is a modern-day Minstrel Show (and this is what Little Brother addressed on their "Minstrel Show" album); it's a form of racist entertainment where white people go to laugh at the stereotypical images of the savage, illiterate coon.  The fact that much of the violence and misogyny in hip-hop is done in a cartoonish manner negates the argument many rappers have that they're just "keeping it real" - they're the real sellouts, not people like Bill Cosby.  They feed white people these horrible images of black folks because they just want to get out of the ghetto and have a big house and expensive car, without caring that they're ultimately degrading their own people for the love of money...because as Tookie points out, black people ARE letting themselves be defined by these images.  "Gangsta" has become the dominant personality of the black man in America.  It's a type of behavior that, frankly, has always been fostered in American culture, but hip-hop one of the more despicable innovations in this trend.  And these cats don't even seem to mind that they're letting themselves get played by the capitalist system for the amusement of the devil.

You know who's a perfectly good example of how gangsta rap is hurting black folks right now?  Many of the current generation West Coast rappers like Game.  Think about some of the shit Game has said in interviews...we know that he's idolized Eazy-E since he was a young blood (he's said that meeting Eazy at Age 10 was a defining moment in his life), and that he has many other gangsta rappers that are his heroes.  Well, look what Game did...surprise, surprise, he started banging for a Piru set in Compton, and might have been selling dope his entire life had he not been lucky enough to get Dre's attention.  Now, it would be unfair to blame the music entirely; after all, his parents were both Crips (and they probably became bangers long before there was any rap), so I'm sure that had a greater effect.  But the thing is, almost everybody I know who's in their 30s' now, and who started listening to hip-hop when it was nothing but Run-DMC and Fat Boys - they don't espouse the gangsta mentality at all, and they miss hip-hop being more innocent and intelligent (and more about the actual MUSIC than the image).

Gangsta rap just needs to find its way out of trendiness in the mainstream, and we'll start seeing fewer of these artists who promote negative images.  It can still exist, but it needs to be a diversion from the norm, not the norm itself.  Hip-hop should be more like the movie industry - as it is now, it's as if every 99 out of 100 movies released were like "Scarface" or "Goodfellas".

[NFX]

I hate to break it to you, but the "white devil" still holds at least SOME share of the responsibility

I never stated otherwise and I agree with you. I'm just saying it's much easier to blame someone else rather than look at oneself.

The following is more ramblin and not directed at Eihtball specifically since we seem to be pretty close in opinion on things.

When we start blaming others (whether true or not), we have given up.

At some point in our lives we have to grow up and stop blaming Daddy Who Wasn't There, Crack Head Momma, Uncle Pedophile and President Cracker. Most of us have some dysfunction in our upbringing. We can let it fuck with out heads forever or we can choose to grow out of the manure and bloom into something greater and hopefully break the legacy given to us.

[Crown]

I hate to break it to you, but the "white devil" still holds at least SOME share of the responsibility

I never stated otherwise and I agree with you. I'm just saying it's much easier to blame someone else rather than look at oneself.

The following is more ramblin and not directed at Eihtball specifically since we seem to be pretty close in opinion on things.

When we start blaming others (whether true or not), we have given up.

At some point in our lives we have to grow up and stop blaming Daddy Who Wasn't There, Crack Head Momma, Uncle Pedophile and President Cracker. Most of us have some dysfunction in our upbringing. We can let it fuck with out heads forever or we can choose to grow out of the manure and bloom into something greater and hopefully break the legacy given to us.

Both of yall made some excellent points.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

Nice thread.

Tookie is right.  Now he is more conscious and aware of how these negative images have been used against him, and so therefore I doubt he would make the same mistakes if he would have been released from prison.  But he's saying that back in the day he was not conscious, and he indentified with the negative images that had been projected onto him and his people.

The answer is that we need to pay much closer attention to our own self-perception.  We shouldn't allow the media to define who we are.  But how does one change one's self-perception?  One can change his self-perception by following the commandments of Allah.  There is one commandment in particular that is more effective than anything else one can do, and that is the five daily prayer rituals that Muslims perform.  They follow particular steps and patterns and the words correspond with the various positions of the prayer.  As one says these prayers regularly he starts to redefine who he is in his relationship with God and his purpose to submit to the Creator only; the innerworkings of man's mind an heart change, and at 5 points everyday he is reminded of God's greatness, his higher purpose, and connected to other believers throughout the world.  Muslims pray shoulder to shoulder in the mosque at fixed times everyday.

[7even]

As long as you blame others for your failure and excuse yourself you will never achieve shit.