Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment

Wrestling backstage politics

<< < (6/7) > >>

KURUPTION-81:
thanks for all the replies of what happened in japan.

Trauma-san:

--- Quote from: M Dogg on January 20, 2006, 01:55:46 PM ---When Andre ran things, it wasn't because he was a nice guy, or stepped down to allow Hogan to be a bigger name that people liked him, it was because when Andre the Giant headlined a card, you wanted to be on that card because it would sell out. Bobby Hennen said that in the 80's, people use to look at the card there were on, and if Hulk Hogan or Andre the Giant was on that card, they'd get happy because they knew there were in for a big payday. This was in the time before wrestlers had contracts that said they make x amount a year. So wrestlers then thanked the upper card, and they knew if oneday Hogan or Andre were not drawing fans in, then they could step up, or if the ball was given to them, to step up. Even in the 90's, there was incentive to get over with the fans by shirt sales. Still, wrestlers in the 80's were thankful to the upper card. Since then, wrestlers have been resentful, and I think this causes more backstage drama than Hogan putting over friends. Back in the day, if the wrestlers saw Brutus Beefcake on the card, and he didn't draw flys to horse shit, the other wrestlers would get mad, and lets just say things were very old school then. But now wrestlers complain to the internet, but they do not step up. Since Hulkamania, the only wrestler I saw step up, and take the ball and run was Steve Austin. He got himself over being a heel, the same way Hogan did before that. Once a generation is there a wrestling star that is as big a Hogan, Austin, Andre, Gorgous George. If Austin was still wrestling, and still drawing in fans, wrestlers now would be, his not putting people over, his hogging the spotlight. But if their pay was based sololy off their gate numbers, everyone would be dying to get on a card headlined by Steve Austin. In the 90's in WCW, everyone would be trying to get on a card headlined by Hogan. They would be loving the nWo, and praising Hall/Nash and Hogan for putting money in their pockets. Instead, there was a lot of people who thought they could do better .OK Billy Kidman, what have you done since, ok Goldberg, who cares about you anymore, Hogan put these people over, he put over many people once WCW was going down the shit hole. He wasn't drawing fans in no more, he tried to put over new stars, but in the WWF they had Austin who was the big thing. Austin was beating Rock, Triple H, Angle, Austin was the man, he was the biggest draw and no one in WCW was stepping up trying to do something better. WCW fell, not because of Hogan's politics, because his politics got them to beat the WWF for over a year in the ratings and question when McMahon was going to give up, but because the WWF had made their new Hogan, they got someone who they were not trying to put over, and he got over being who he is. McMahon Sr. did make Andre, but he knew how to market him, McMahon Jr. didn't make Hogan, but he got him back from the AWA and market him well, and in the 90's he didn't make Steve Austin, but he knew how to market him to the fans. In WCW, you had cool wrestlers and characters, some would go on to be great stars, like Benoit and Guerrero, but with Austin on your roster, they are mid-card.

Also, how did Eddie get the title, because he got himself over. He was heel, and they were cheering, they turned him face and the crowd was behind him and when he was heel and involved in stupit angles, they still cheered him. Same with Angle who basically was a crazy American Nazi, and fans still supported him. That's getting yourself over. McMahon almost ruined their careers, but the connected to the fans, and got over, and I mean Eddie got his brother a job, Chavo Classic, and Chavo Sr. actually won a title at an old age. Come on, that's politics to the Nth degree. But you know what, respect what Eddie and Angle have done, because people come to see them. In ECW it was RVD, if he was the headline, people came, not to see Lance Storm. In the 80's up to mid 90's it was Hulk Hogan, from the mid 90's to the mid 2000's it was Austin, from the 70's to the 80's it was Andre the Giant. Respect them, because Hogan when Hogan didn't get the AWA title, he just went to the WWF, when Austin didn't get the WCW title, he went to the WWF, Hogan basically put AWA out of business because AWA was nothing without Hogan, they invested in older talent that couldn't out draw Hogan, Austin basically put WCW out of business 'cause he was out drawing the older talent WCW was working with. But they put themselves over. Lets see who's next to do it. We'll see who will be the next big star, because the WWE doesn't make them, they make themselves.

--- End quote ---

I agree 100%, you have a good understanding of how the wrestling business works.  If you are a star, nothing will hold you back.  Wrestlers say this over and over, all the oldtimers say that, but nobody listens.  They think some hot shot new guy should show up and just be a star.  All your greats took what they got. 

It's the same in business, the people that succeed ultimately are those that just make it impossible not to succeed.  We could run down the gauntlet, in any business.  Bill Gates.  He didn't invent the computer.  He just worked so fucking hard and stole or whatever to the point where he is where he is now, donating hundreds of millions of dollars to charities, but yet all the little computer geeks hate him because they think they're more talented.  Bill Gates is the Hulk Hogan of the computer world.

Puff Daddy was an assistant engineer or a fucking secretary at a record company and worked his way up to being one of the most powerful people in the rap world, or the music world in general for that case, and all the other musicians and producers hate him because they think they're more talented.  Puff Daddy is the Hulk Hogan of the music world.

You can't say Puff Daddy is a piece of shit because look where he started.  Nobody gave him shit, he took everything he needed to to make his life where he wanted it.  Look @ Bill Gates, he made himself what he is today, nobody gave him a thing, he started with nothing and became the greatest at what he does.  Hulk Hogan did the same thing in the wrestling world. 

M Dogg™:

--- Quote from: Trauma on January 23, 2006, 03:03:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on January 20, 2006, 01:55:46 PM ---When Andre ran things, it wasn't because he was a nice guy, or stepped down to allow Hogan to be a bigger name that people liked him, it was because when Andre the Giant headlined a card, you wanted to be on that card because it would sell out. Bobby Hennen said that in the 80's, people use to look at the card there were on, and if Hulk Hogan or Andre the Giant was on that card, they'd get happy because they knew there were in for a big payday. This was in the time before wrestlers had contracts that said they make x amount a year. So wrestlers then thanked the upper card, and they knew if oneday Hogan or Andre were not drawing fans in, then they could step up, or if the ball was given to them, to step up. Even in the 90's, there was incentive to get over with the fans by shirt sales. Still, wrestlers in the 80's were thankful to the upper card. Since then, wrestlers have been resentful, and I think this causes more backstage drama than Hogan putting over friends. Back in the day, if the wrestlers saw Brutus Beefcake on the card, and he didn't draw flys to horse shit, the other wrestlers would get mad, and lets just say things were very old school then. But now wrestlers complain to the internet, but they do not step up. Since Hulkamania, the only wrestler I saw step up, and take the ball and run was Steve Austin. He got himself over being a heel, the same way Hogan did before that. Once a generation is there a wrestling star that is as big a Hogan, Austin, Andre, Gorgous George. If Austin was still wrestling, and still drawing in fans, wrestlers now would be, his not putting people over, his hogging the spotlight. But if their pay was based sololy off their gate numbers, everyone would be dying to get on a card headlined by Steve Austin. In the 90's in WCW, everyone would be trying to get on a card headlined by Hogan. They would be loving the nWo, and praising Hall/Nash and Hogan for putting money in their pockets. Instead, there was a lot of people who thought they could do better .OK Billy Kidman, what have you done since, ok Goldberg, who cares about you anymore, Hogan put these people over, he put over many people once WCW was going down the shit hole. He wasn't drawing fans in no more, he tried to put over new stars, but in the WWF they had Austin who was the big thing. Austin was beating Rock, Triple H, Angle, Austin was the man, he was the biggest draw and no one in WCW was stepping up trying to do something better. WCW fell, not because of Hogan's politics, because his politics got them to beat the WWF for over a year in the ratings and question when McMahon was going to give up, but because the WWF had made their new Hogan, they got someone who they were not trying to put over, and he got over being who he is. McMahon Sr. did make Andre, but he knew how to market him, McMahon Jr. didn't make Hogan, but he got him back from the AWA and market him well, and in the 90's he didn't make Steve Austin, but he knew how to market him to the fans. In WCW, you had cool wrestlers and characters, some would go on to be great stars, like Benoit and Guerrero, but with Austin on your roster, they are mid-card.

Also, how did Eddie get the title, because he got himself over. He was heel, and they were cheering, they turned him face and the crowd was behind him and when he was heel and involved in stupit angles, they still cheered him. Same with Angle who basically was a crazy American Nazi, and fans still supported him. That's getting yourself over. McMahon almost ruined their careers, but the connected to the fans, and got over, and I mean Eddie got his brother a job, Chavo Classic, and Chavo Sr. actually won a title at an old age. Come on, that's politics to the Nth degree. But you know what, respect what Eddie and Angle have done, because people come to see them. In ECW it was RVD, if he was the headline, people came, not to see Lance Storm. In the 80's up to mid 90's it was Hulk Hogan, from the mid 90's to the mid 2000's it was Austin, from the 70's to the 80's it was Andre the Giant. Respect them, because Hogan when Hogan didn't get the AWA title, he just went to the WWF, when Austin didn't get the WCW title, he went to the WWF, Hogan basically put AWA out of business because AWA was nothing without Hogan, they invested in older talent that couldn't out draw Hogan, Austin basically put WCW out of business 'cause he was out drawing the older talent WCW was working with. But they put themselves over. Lets see who's next to do it. We'll see who will be the next big star, because the WWE doesn't make them, they make themselves.

--- End quote ---

I agree 100%, you have a good understanding of how the wrestling business works.  If you are a star, nothing will hold you back.  Wrestlers say this over and over, all the oldtimers say that, but nobody listens.  They think some hot shot new guy should show up and just be a star.  All your greats took what they got. 

It's the same in business, the people that succeed ultimately are those that just make it impossible not to succeed.  We could run down the gauntlet, in any business.  Bill Gates.  He didn't invent the computer.  He just worked so fucking hard and stole or whatever to the point where he is where he is now, donating hundreds of millions of dollars to charities, but yet all the little computer geeks hate him because they think they're more talented.  Bill Gates is the Hulk Hogan of the computer world.

Puff Daddy was an assistant engineer or a fucking secretary at a record company and worked his way up to being one of the most powerful people in the rap world, or the music world in general for that case, and all the other musicians and producers hate him because they think they're more talented.  Puff Daddy is the Hulk Hogan of the music world.

You can't say Puff Daddy is a piece of shit because look where he started.  Nobody gave him shit, he took everything he needed to to make his life where he wanted it.  Look @ Bill Gates, he made himself what he is today, nobody gave him a thing, he started with nothing and became the greatest at what he does.  Hulk Hogan did the same thing in the wrestling world. 

--- End quote ---

Someone save this.. Trauma and M Dogg agree for the first time in about 3 years... wow... lol. Hulk Hogan does that to old school wrestling fans.  8)

Shallow:
So what do you guys think would have happened to Hulkamania if Iron Shiek decided to take Gagne's offer and break Hogan's leg?


What if Vince decided he didn't like Hogan anymore and jobbed him out? Maybe Hogan would have walked out and joined an NWA that would acceot him with open arms. But it's alot easier to succeed whn there is competition and no guaranteed contracts. Owen Hart was as over as anybody on the roster when he came back as the black hart, but thanks to a contract that binded him to the WWF and bad booking he faded away. When Bret came to WCW he was bigger than everyone given the circumstances but after one month he was in the midcard while Hogan was hogging the spotlight. Tell me Trauma; what was Bret supposed to do to ensure he stayed over?

A star is only as big as his booking. You think Goldberg would have been as big a star with out that streak they showed us on TV week after week. It was new. It was exciting. What happened to Goldberg when the streak ended?


Only people with amazing talent and charisma can become stars, but no matter how much talent or charisma you have you can be booked to fail.


Where would Sean Combs be with out Clive Davis bankrolling Puff's talent and vision? You think Puffy could have just started his own label with out financial backing from people competing with with Uptown. You need competition if you want to strive on your own merit. If Steve Austin was about to get fired in '98 then he cold leave for WCW and WWF would have been hurt. That's what Austin did in WCW. He saw Hogan and what he was going to do to the young guys so he more or less got himself fired and made to the WWE. The reason why more people couldn't was because there were only 2 major companies to work for and only so much room on each. In computers and in music there are dozens of labels and a lot of room in the major labels for a lot of people with talent to exceed. Wrestling isn't as big. Where is Matt Hardy supposed to go and make a decent living if not in the WWE? How about RVD? If TNA was bigger then they'd go there, but for now there is only one major company and it can do what ever it wants with any wrestler because the company lives of it's own brand and not on any one wrestler.

M Dogg™:

--- Quote from: Shallow on January 24, 2006, 12:12:00 PM ---So what do you guys think would have happened to Hulkamania if Iron Shiek decided to take Gagne's offer and break Hogan's leg?


What if Vince decided he didn't like Hogan anymore and jobbed him out? Maybe Hogan would have walked out and joined an NWA that would acceot him with open arms. But it's alot easier to succeed whn there is competition and no guaranteed contracts. Owen Hart was as over as anybody on the roster when he came back as the black hart, but thanks to a contract that binded him to the WWF and bad booking he faded away. When Bret came to WCW he was bigger than everyone given the circumstances but after one month he was in the midcard while Hogan was hogging the spotlight. Tell me Trauma; what was Bret supposed to do to ensure he stayed over?

A star is only as big as his booking. You think Goldberg would have been as big a star with out that streak they showed us on TV week after week. It was new. It was exciting. What happened to Goldberg when the streak ended?


Only people with amazing talent and charisma can become stars, but no matter how much talent or charisma you have you can be booked to fail.


Where would Sean Combs be with out Clive Davis bankrolling Puff's talent and vision? You think Puffy could have just started his own label with out financial backing from people competing with with Uptown. You need competition if you want to strive on your own merit. If Steve Austin was about to get fired in '98 then he cold leave for WCW and WWF would have been hurt. That's what Austin did in WCW. He saw Hogan and what he was going to do to the young guys so he more or less got himself fired and made to the WWE. The reason why more people couldn't was because there were only 2 major companies to work for and only so much room on each. In computers and in music there are dozens of labels and a lot of room in the major labels for a lot of people with talent to exceed. Wrestling isn't as big. Where is Matt Hardy supposed to go and make a decent living if not in the WWE? How about RVD? If TNA was bigger then they'd go there, but for now there is only one major company and it can do what ever it wants with any wrestler because the company lives of it's own brand and not on any one wrestler.

--- End quote ---

And because of that, WCW went out of business, and Hogan was jobbing to Billy Kidman trying to correct his wrong. More so than Hogan, it's WCW fault. You should never give a wrestler creative control, and for their lack of wrestling business knowledge, they went out, the fans spoke.

Iron Sheik breaks Hogan's leg, Hulkamania never takes off, WWF is never known nationally, and the Iron Sheik is fired, and the WWF does not make the impact it once did. Instead, I think the NWA with it's Turner contract is the dominate federation, and Vince McMahon is fighting up hill with an aging Andre the Giant. There is no Wrestlemania, since everyone in the WWF admits Wrestlemania was created because of Hogan. Ric Flair is the star of the 80's, BUT, wrestling as we know it never takes off in popularity since most people want a star like Hogan, not like Flair, the same way they prefer The Rock to Chris Benoit.

Wrestlers that get burried, if they get themselves over, then they will be alright. They tried to bury some wrestlers, and the crowd still responds, and they have no choice but to push them. Hogan was a product of that. The AWA would never let him win the title, and the crowd was wanting him too. Basically, he was not getting over in favor of older stars, and that's why AWA is no more. WCW had Steve Austin, and they were not pushing him, instead going with older talent like Jim Duggan and Brotha Bruti... ha ha... and of course Hogan and Flair in the main event. The results, WCW may have won a short term war, Hogan leading the nWo to beat the WWF in the ratings, BUT, WCW is now out of business, and Steve Austin made Vince McMahon more money than any other wrestler. Blame WCW for not knowing how to run a wrestling promotion. No wrestler should ever have creative control. Vince McMahon gave it to Bret Hart, and you saw what happened there.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page