It's June 05, 2024, 01:33:17 PM
i believe we are in agreement. i'm certain that there are people who know these answers; and i am also certain that it is possible to find the answers to life's greatest question if one seeks in the right sources. the key is that this sort of realization happens at the individual level and is something that cannot be told or directed. the knowledge that you speak of is not some sort of intellectual concept to be understood, but a state of mind, a state of understanding to be realized. in many ways various religions have tried to capture both the descriptions of these realizations; and also direction to finding and verifying these answers on one's own.
the bible does not claim that god is a man with semen. the bible clearly states that mary knew no man. the debate over whether or not jesus is god's son is largely a semantic debate over the usage of the word "son". neither the bible nor the quran suggest that mary was impregnated by a man. there is no debate in the qu'ran and bible as to the nature of the conception of jesus. it's a semantic argument over the usage of words."many people have interpretted the relationship of jesus and god, and jesus words in a far different manner. you portray this as an all or nothing issue when it's not."
the one idea that i want to convey here is that the qu'ran and the bible do not disagree to the nature of jesus at all. the qu'ran also refers to jesus as "the word of god":sura 4:171O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.the only disagreement that exists is the notion that jesus is equal to god and should also be worshipped. the notion of the trinity. the qu'ran completely supports the divine nature of jesus in all ways. when people suggest that the interpretation of christ in the qu'ran is radically different from ideas held by some christians...this is wrong, and not bore out by studying the text to the quran.
this is the root of our current disagreement. the old testament, the qu'ran...etc. there is this idea that god's prophets, and religions in general often tell people what they need to hear for their circumstance. the qu'ran directly has this idea of different people getting prophets and messengers at different times depending on their circumstances...if you look at the history of how the qu'ran was revealed (which was in stages over time) one theme has been that various suras were revealed to the prophet muhammad to address and resolve issues and concerns that were going on at the time. there are verses in sura's that deal directly with people interacting with the prophet and his wives...etc. this is why the qu'ran does not consider it an inconsistency that the various prophets throughout history have said different things. it isn't an issue of god changing his mind; this is not the nature of god. it is an issue of prophets providing divinely inspired guidance to the people.
the basic idea that i think you are missing is this. the qu'ran isn't about dictating the terms of your marriage; however the qu'ran does provide guidance about the structure of marriages at that time, and that advice is still heeded today.in modern times; when marriages are not arranged by parents, the matter in which you structure your marriage would be less influenced by that guidance and more dictated by your own wishes; so it's a moot issue.
you've suggested that muslims believe in "the sort of god" that wishes to see women dominated and subservient.god does not wish in this sort of whimsical manner. what the qu'ran states is that god wishes for his creations to be loving towards each other and to worship him.
what i am challenging is your suggestion of the qu'ran's portrayal of god, when across the muslim world's there are numerous examples of the nature of god being appreciated in a vastly different manner than what you suggest.i heard a sufi shaykh speak and he characterized the judiasm/christianity/islam relationship thusly:abraham/moses were about living by the lawjesus was about looking towards the afterlifemuhammad was about balancing the preparation for the spiritual afterlife with appreciating the physical world and existence as well.
Many wise people who have dedicated their lives to finding these answers have come to different solutions. That right there tells me that we can't truly figure it out.
I've always hada theory that God purposely put people on earth with different beliefs and that no matter what religion, if any, you can logically conclude what you should or shouldn't do in every situation. There are some that tricky like if someone is about to shoot you and you have a gun should you try and shoot him first to save yourself or let him kill you since you havea devout belief in the afterlife? Would it be suicide since you are letting yourself die, or sacrifice since you are sure you are getting to heaven but not sure if your attacker will and you want to give him a chance to repent and redeem himself?. Our human instinct would tell us to shoot back but if we absolutely knew for certain that we would be in paradise we'd probably let him shoot. For the most part though the answers aren't as hard to figure out.
and the Gospel of John is very clear about the origin of what became Jesus, and it's pretty much the essence of Christianity to believe that God was not pleased with the way his chosen prophets interpreted his word so he more or less sent his word down in the flesh, which meant he sent himself down so that we get it right. That's the belief anyway.
So Muhammad said to do that while he was under the influence of God? I thought the Quran was the direct word of God and not Muhammad, and that Muhammad had his own teachings in another book.
So then why wouldn't the Quran state that this is a "for the times" suggestion? Or does it? And if it doesn't identify which is for the times and which isn't then who is to say what is timeless and what isn't.
I guess I see it as with Islam a person has to almost rise above some of the things Muhammad did or said to be as righteous as they can be
in Christianity a person can't even come close to being as righteous as Jesus. For this I cannot call Jesus and Muhammad equals and have to see Jesus as superior.
P.S. When I say rise above, I mean see a verse like Sura 4:34 where it says you should scourge or admonish a wife that rebels and say; no I'd rather treat my wife as an equal instead of leading her, since I am no better than her, and since I don't want to raise my daughters to be less than ther future husbands as far as raising the family goes.
religious people need to smoke some bud to relax