Lifestyle > Train of Thought
has islam become distorted?
TraceOneInfinite:
Nibs, I was going to look for examples from Qu'ran to illucidate my point, and then I realized I can just use the same examples you used in your opening post. You may not have understood fully what I was saying in my opening response, I think the examples might help....check my next post I'm about to make....
nibs:
--- Quote from: Islamic Khalifah Sultan Abdul Hamid- 1908- on April 17, 2006, 08:31:17 AM ---Nibs, I was going to look for examples from Qu'ran to illucidate my point, and then I realized I can just use the same examples you used in your opening post. You may not have understood fully what I was saying in my opening response, I think the examples might help....
--- End quote ---
sura 2:62 suggests that all (atleast most) interpretations of the qu'ran would be valid; however the question that i then ask is what then is the significance of the different interpretations? there are verses that suggest that some will have greater reward than others and be closer to god than others. which seems to indicate that some interpretations of the qu'ran would lead to a greater level of understanding and should be favored.
sura 56:7-15
And you shall be divided into three groups:
Those on the right hand - how lucky are those on the right hand !
And those on the left hand - how unlucky are those on the left hand!
And the foremost; they are truly the foremost;
They will be those near to God;
And will be in the Gardens of Bliss -
A large party from among the first believers,
And a few from among the later ones,
Seated on couches inwrought with gold and jewels,
but my original question was in addition the more subtle question of what interpretation is favored; why is the portrayal and perception of islam so wrong. there are cultural and historical arguments for how the various interpretations have attained their various levels of prominence; but it seems like the perception of islam denies the inherent dynamism of the religion.
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: nibs on April 16, 2006, 08:22:40 PM ---
sura 2:62
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
--- End quote ---
^^One viewpoint, is Muslims who won't even try to understand this verse themselves. They will go straight to what a famous 9th century scholar of the past has said concerning the subject. On this verse for example, one major scholar of that time period ruled that this verse is talking about Christians of the past who believed in 1 God and that it no longer applied to them since the coming of Muhammad (pbuh).
Now obviously, you and I reading this verse, would not come to this conclusion. We would read it and understand it as is. But the scholar ruling on this verse may not even be looking at the verse directly, he may may be reading through thousands of narrations and stories about the Prophet Muhammad and his companions and their dealings and sayings concerning Christians. The problem is, those narrations may be innacurate or they may only be talking about that specific time period, place, and cirumstances, but the Qu'ran was sent for all ages and all of mankind so it shouldn't be limited to just one specific place, time, and circumstance.
You feel me?
--- Quote from: nibs on April 16, 2006, 08:22:40 PM ---
sura 33:59
O Prophet ! tell thy wives and thy daughters, and the women of the believers, that they should pull down upon them of their outer cloaks from their heads over their faces. That is more likely that they may thus be recognized and not molested. And ALLAH is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
--- End quote ---
^^Only Sher Ali translated this verse to mean faces: Check a couple other translations:
Khalifa
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Yusuf Ali
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And God is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Pickthal
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Shakir
O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Sher Ali
O Prophet ! tell thy wives and thy daughters, and the women of the believers, that they should pull down upon them of their outer cloaks from their heads over their faces. That is more likely that they may thus be recognized and not molested. And Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
"Progressive Muslims"
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they should draw their cloaks about themselves. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
^^Anyway... that's not the point I want to make. The point I want to make is that many Muslims won't try to understand this verse directly from the Qu'ran anyway. They will go to stories and narrations from the Prophet Muhammad and his companions, and begin imitating them. Most women did not cover their faces, but the Prophet Muhammad's wives did cover their faces. Some women feel that it's best to imitate the Prophet Muhammad's wives so they cover their faces.
You feel where I'm coming from now? Many Muslims don't try to read and understand the Qu'ran like you and I do, they just try to read stories from the Prophet's liftetime (Hadith, Seerah, Sunnah) and imitate the Prophet Muhammad and his companions or they follow the jurispudence of a scholar.
Teddy Roosevelt:
--- Quote from: Islamic Khalifah Sultan Abdul Hamid- 1908- on April 17, 2006, 08:23:18 AM ---
--- Quote from: Don Rizzle on April 17, 2006, 01:38:37 AM ---see this is the problem of muslims today they are not tolerant of other religions like you tryna question easter when everyone is celebrating it, but someone questioning how islam is practised is suddenly private matter. your mind is warped my friend.
--- End quote ---
The problem wasn't in the post or the question. Infact, Nibs and I are coming from the same perspective. The problem is that there are always people waiting in the wings for any oppurtunity to exploit Muslims. If they find any dispute amongst Muslims they will try to exploit it.
For example, look at the way you guys always try to make a discord between Tech and I. In some istances you'll say I'm not a real Muslim cause I'm white, then in other instances you'll say he's not a real Muslim because he doesn't proclaim Islam at the forum the way I do.
--- End quote ---
Oh I get it. You mean the same way you do with Christianity? And no one that you can take seriously on this board has ever said you're not real Muslim because you are white. 90% of the people on this forum are white. It's the fact the you seem to bash Christianity, American culture, and white culture in general, despite the fact that you are a former Christian, are an American, and are so submerged in white culture and living that you probably don't even know. You're a hypocrite. But you say that people will take whatever chance they get to exploit Muslim disputes, despite the fact that almost all the threads you start are to bash anything that has to do with America.
Kassem:
--- Quote from: Islamic Khalifah Sultan Abdul Hamid- 1908- on April 17, 2006, 09:06:22 AM ---
--- Quote from: nibs on April 16, 2006, 08:22:40 PM ---
sura 2:62
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
--- End quote ---
^^One viewpoint, is Muslims who won't even try to understand this verse themselves. They will go straight to what a famous 9th century scholar of the past has said concerning the subject. On this verse for example, one major scholar of that time period ruled that this verse is talking about Christians of the past who believed in 1 God and that it no longer applied to them since the coming of Muhammad (pbuh).
Now obviously, you and I reading this verse, would not come to this conclusion. We would read it and understand it as is. But the scholar ruling on this verse may not even be looking at the verse directly, he may may be reading through thousands of narrations and stories about the Prophet Muhammad and his companions and their dealings and sayings concerning Christians. The problem is, those narrations may be innacurate or they may only be talking about that specific time period, place, and cirumstances, but the Qu'ran was sent for all ages and all of mankind so it shouldn't be limited to just one specific place, time, and circumstance.
You feel me?
--- Quote from: nibs on April 16, 2006, 08:22:40 PM ---
sura 33:59
O Prophet ! tell thy wives and thy daughters, and the women of the believers, that they should pull down upon them of their outer cloaks from their heads over their faces. That is more likely that they may thus be recognized and not molested. And ALLAH is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
--- End quote ---
^^Only Sher Ali translated this verse to mean faces: Check a couple other translations:
Khalifa
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Yusuf Ali
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And God is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Pickthal
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Shakir
O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Sher Ali
O Prophet ! tell thy wives and thy daughters, and the women of the believers, that they should pull down upon them of their outer cloaks from their heads over their faces. That is more likely that they may thus be recognized and not molested. And Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
"Progressive Muslims"
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they should draw their cloaks about themselves. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
^^Anyway... that's not the point I want to make. The point I want to make is that many Muslims won't try to understand this verse directly from the Qu'ran anyway. They will go to stories and narrations from the Prophet Muhammad and his companions, and begin imitating them. Most women did not cover their faces, but the Prophet Muhammad's wives did cover their faces. Some women feel that it's best to imitate the Prophet Muhammad's wives so they cover their faces.
You feel where I'm coming from now? Many Muslims don't try to read and understand the Qu'ran like you and I do, they just try to read stories from the Prophet's liftetime (Hadith, Seerah, Sunnah) and imitate the Prophet Muhammad and his companions or they follow the jurispudence of a scholar.
--- End quote ---
'
your are right even tho the hadith,seerah,sunnah may only apply to certain very unique situations they take it run with it and forget about the quran.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[*] Previous page
Go to full version