Is it Dre's responsibility to help the west coast?

["THE" MoSav]

Some of these WC artists need to help themselves before Dre can help them

True!

People like Bishop that kept grinding got a deal from Dre same with Game so helps who he feel like he really should, just like he tried helping Rassy too. Dre cant help everyone...But again some of these rappers need to help themselves first...

[Narrator]

1. at this point the birthplace of hip hop is 100% irrelevant. Kool Herc invented the shit, not the entire state of NY. yall got bullshit out there too, just like anywhere else.

Not nearly as much as some places (the West being one of them).

2. LOL are you fuckin kidding me?  California is the most populated and most diverse state in the country. The fact that you think we are nothin but lowriders and blunts is just proof that you are out of touch with the West Coast and are hangin on to 10+ year old West Coast stereotypes. No, we dont wear chucks and flannels either. Get the fuck outta here, lol. And just for the record, you got just as many, and actually probably more rappers on the East claiming gangsta this and thug that in everything they do. 50 Cent, Benie Segal, Fat Joe, Camron and the Dipset, Ja Rule, Lil Kim, Jay Z, Memphis Bleek, etc etc etc etc.

Cali has FAR less diversity than any other rap scene in the country, including the South.  I am definitely not out of touch with Cali; even if I hadn't lived there before (and I did), just looking at this board is enough to prove you wrong.

The East Coast may have lots of thug rappers, but the ratio of thugs to conscious rappers, political rappers, backpackers, etc. is far more balanced.  For every 50 Cent, there are 5 Talibs or Boot Camp Cliks, while the Western ratio is more like the opposite (for every Ras Kass or Lyrics Born, there's 5 Pac or Snoop wanna-bes).  West Coast niggas continue to believe that because they invented gangsta rap, that's all they should ever make.

And no, what you are saying does not characterize 99% of West Coast rap fans, again, that is you overgeneralizing us, an uninformed generalization at that. I would recommend that you take a trip to Cali, but then you will just see what you want to see. Yes there is lowriders and blunts out here, but if you honestly believe thats all we are, then you need to get off your computer and leave the house sometime.

Like I said, I have already lived in Cali.  I know what the fuck Cali is like.

And as I've said before, you only need to look at this board as proof that your argument is bullshit.  I realize that only a tiny % of posters are from Cali, but like I said, it's West Coast FANS as much as West Coast rappers I'm talking about.

[M Dogg™]

1. at this point the birthplace of hip hop is 100% irrelevant. Kool Herc invented the shit, not the entire state of NY. yall got bullshit out there too, just like anywhere else.

Not nearly as much as some places (the West being one of them).

2. LOL are you fuckin kidding me?  California is the most populated and most diverse state in the country. The fact that you think we are nothin but lowriders and blunts is just proof that you are out of touch with the West Coast and are hangin on to 10+ year old West Coast stereotypes. No, we dont wear chucks and flannels either. Get the fuck outta here, lol. And just for the record, you got just as many, and actually probably more rappers on the East claiming gangsta this and thug that in everything they do. 50 Cent, Benie Segal, Fat Joe, Camron and the Dipset, Ja Rule, Lil Kim, Jay Z, Memphis Bleek, etc etc etc etc.

Cali has FAR less diversity than any other rap scene in the country, including the South.  I am definitely not out of touch with Cali; even if I hadn't lived there before (and I did), just looking at this board is enough to prove you wrong.

The East Coast may have lots of thug rappers, but the ratio of thugs to conscious rappers, political rappers, backpackers, etc. is far more balanced.  For every 50 Cent, there are 5 Talibs or Boot Camp Cliks, while the Western ratio is more like the opposite (for every Ras Kass or Lyrics Born, there's 5 Pac or Snoop wanna-bes).  West Coast niggas continue to believe that because they invented gangsta rap, that's all they should ever make.

And no, what you are saying does not characterize 99% of West Coast rap fans, again, that is you overgeneralizing us, an uninformed generalization at that. I would recommend that you take a trip to Cali, but then you will just see what you want to see. Yes there is lowriders and blunts out here, but if you honestly believe thats all we are, then you need to get off your computer and leave the house sometime.

Like I said, I have already lived in Cali.  I know what the fuck Cali is like.

And as I've said before, you only need to look at this board as proof that your argument is bullshit.  I realize that only a tiny % of posters are from Cali, but like I said, it's West Coast FANS as much as West Coast rappers I'm talking about.

this cat is nuts....

first off, when gangsta rap was in high gear, the east copied, and the west put out Paperboy, Ahmad, Skee-Lo, about half a dozen latin rap acts, which include Lighter Shade of Brown who was not gangsta rap, just Sunday kickback rap, and of course Pharcyde. Later, we still put out J-5, Ras Kass, Dilated People, Crooked I, and we still have Omar Cruz and tons of other Latin rappers. How could you say you lived in Cali when you don't remember how much different shit Power used to play, or maybe you where in the Bay, and you knew KMEL back then was the shit. Cali is the most culturally diverse state. Even in Hip-Hop.

[Narrator]

this cat is nuts....

first off, when gangsta rap was in high gear, the east copied, and the west put out Paperboy, Ahmad, Skee-Lo, about half a dozen latin rap acts, which include Lighter Shade of Brown who was not gangsta rap, just Sunday kickback rap, and of course Pharcyde. Later, we still put out J-5, Ras Kass, Dilated People, Crooked I, and we still have Omar Cruz and tons of other Latin rappers. How could you say you lived in Cali when you don't remember how much different shit Power used to play, or maybe you where in the Bay, and you knew KMEL back then was the shit. Cali is the most culturally diverse state. Even in Hip-Hop.

Again, those cats are EXCEPTIONS, not the rule.  I remember all of them (and was a fan of all them), but I also remember that when I was listening to Souls of Mischief, almost everyone I knew was just bumping "The Chronic" and "Doggystyle" nonstop.  When G-Funk was popular, there were zillions of artists doing that style, and to this day, the gangsta/G-Funk template is still more-or-less standard for the West.  There are simply too many gangstas, and West Coast FANS as a whole are quite possibly the most superficial and image-obsessed people in all of hip-hop.  And this is reflected in the music.

You say it's just a stereotype, but stereotypes come from somewhere.

[M Dogg™]

this cat is nuts....

first off, when gangsta rap was in high gear, the east copied, and the west put out Paperboy, Ahmad, Skee-Lo, about half a dozen latin rap acts, which include Lighter Shade of Brown who was not gangsta rap, just Sunday kickback rap, and of course Pharcyde. Later, we still put out J-5, Ras Kass, Dilated People, Crooked I, and we still have Omar Cruz and tons of other Latin rappers. How could you say you lived in Cali when you don't remember how much different shit Power used to play, or maybe you where in the Bay, and you knew KMEL back then was the shit. Cali is the most culturally diverse state. Even in Hip-Hop.

Again, those cats are EXCEPTIONS, not the rule.  I remember all of them (and was a fan of all them), but I also remember that when I was listening to Souls of Mischief, almost everyone I knew was just bumping "The Chronic" and "Doggystyle" nonstop.  When G-Funk was popular, there were zillions of artists doing that style, and to this day, the gangsta/G-Funk template is still more-or-less standard for the West.  There are simply too many gangstas, and West Coast FANS as a whole are quite possibly the most superficial and image-obsessed people in all of hip-hop.  And this is reflected in the music.

You say it's just a stereotype, but stereotypes come from somewhere.

I remember Power was playing all of them, not just the G-Funk. There are stereotypes, and at the time everyone was jumping on the G-Funk bandwagon, but at the same time, everyone was doing the same in the east, and in the mid-west and south. G-Funk was a nation thing that started from the west, so we got the stereotype. G-Funk and Gangsta Rap I think got worst once G-Funk died, because westcoast artist were wanting to become popular, and with the dying westcoast, they were trying to do what works, and that's G Funk/Gangsta Rap. We got tons of new artist that looked up to Ice T and NWA and 2Pac, and they all wanted to be on some Gangsta Rap shit. At the same time, that was the era that J-5 and Dilated Peoples were on the radio, and other non Gangsta Rap westcoast artist actually got some national play. It's ironic because it was at that time that the west was the most saturated with Gangsta Rappers, yet they were not getting play.

[R-Tistic]

this cat is nuts....

first off, when gangsta rap was in high gear, the east copied, and the west put out Paperboy, Ahmad, Skee-Lo, about half a dozen latin rap acts, which include Lighter Shade of Brown who was not gangsta rap, just Sunday kickback rap, and of course Pharcyde. Later, we still put out J-5, Ras Kass, Dilated People, Crooked I, and we still have Omar Cruz and tons of other Latin rappers. How could you say you lived in Cali when you don't remember how much different shit Power used to play, or maybe you where in the Bay, and you knew KMEL back then was the shit. Cali is the most culturally diverse state. Even in Hip-Hop.

Again, those cats are EXCEPTIONS, not the rule.  I remember all of them (and was a fan of all them), but I also remember that when I was listening to Souls of Mischief, almost everyone I knew was just bumping "The Chronic" and "Doggystyle" nonstop.  When G-Funk was popular, there were zillions of artists doing that style, and to this day, the gangsta/G-Funk template is still more-or-less standard for the West.  There are simply too many gangstas, and West Coast FANS as a whole are quite possibly the most superficial and image-obsessed people in all of hip-hop.  And this is reflected in the music.

You say it's just a stereotype, but stereotypes come from somewhere.

I think your argument on this is hella biased....

For one, most rappers in NY who are up and coming rap about very similar topics, with most being the typical punchilnes, multis, drug, gun, and murder references. California has always had a large range of different artists, and we still do, but many of these artists just aren't heard as much. Maybe you have to be here for 21 years to understand it.

And for you to say we are the most superficial and image obsessed is definitely the most biased, incorrect assumption I've heard in a long time.....I know a LOT of people from NY, and even though many of them are somewhat trapped between "thug and college student", most of them will judge rapper's street cred just as much or more than a typical person on the West would. Most people in L.A. could really care less about how "real" somebody is...but a NY cat will knock a dope rapper just because they "ain't from the hood" "they were soft in their hood" "they didn't grow up in the gutter" and all else. Please believe, people are the same in NY, L.A., the south, and the midwest....

You can't act like everybody on the west was on the G-Funk bandwagon, as if NY hasn't jumped on EVERY single bandwagon that came along....as soon as they saw it was cool to cuss and rap about negativity, many of the artists started doing that....when Wu Tang and Nas came with that "from the streets" style, they all started doing that....when they saw it was cool to get jiggy and dress flashy, many, but not all, started doing that.....when they saw it's cool to rap about gangbangin like L.A. used to always do, some of the artists did that, such as Dipset and others. And ATL is the exact same....as soon as the snap ya fingers style got big, EVERY artist from Atlanta, whether thug, commercial, or R&B hopped on the bandwagon. People u haven't heard from in 3 years, such as Monica, are back trying to fit into that style. And overall....is that really a bad thing? It is terrible in some cases, and it works in others...but that's just part of the industry.

The ONLY reason some west coast rappers may appear to try and fit the gangsta mold is because that was the main thing that set us apart and made us big in the mainstream, and most record companies aren't willing to push a west coast artist who doesn't fit this mold. But at the same time....I donno when or where you lived in Cali, but obviously, it wasn't long enough to give an accurate portrayal of what goes on out here. You know why? Because it's not even that many rappers still stuck in that gangsta rap style! If anything, you would know that most cats out here are trying to sound more New York than gangsta, and if you knew that, you would have definitely used that in your argument somewhere.

So yeah.................let's kill that debate.....

BACK TO THE TOPIC......

Personally, it's not Dre's responsibility or obligation to so called "help the west out", although I can understand why most of us feel that we need him to. I think the problem right now is that we are too dependent on Dre, and people just sit around waiting for Detox to come so that they can try to catch a deal, and producers are waiting on that so they'll know what sound to follow for the next few years. But IF Dre said "Detox is completely cancelled, and I'm retiring", the west would temporarily hate him and probably blame him for us never coming back....versus us saying "fuck it...well let's keep it movin...where's the next generation at?" I think we need to start looking towards a new sound, movement, and generation, instead of waiting on Dre to somehow bring us back. Personally, even if he comes with Detox and has a grip of west coast artists on it, it still may not "bring us back" because the 2001 era had A LOT of potential and dope artists/albums...but we still fell right back off.

[Turf Hitta]

1. at this point the birthplace of hip hop is 100% irrelevant. Kool Herc invented the shit, not the entire state of NY. yall got bullshit out there too, just like anywhere else.

Not nearly as much as some places (the West being one of them).

2. LOL are you fuckin kidding me?  California is the most populated and most diverse state in the country. The fact that you think we are nothin but lowriders and blunts is just proof that you are out of touch with the West Coast and are hangin on to 10+ year old West Coast stereotypes. No, we dont wear chucks and flannels either. Get the fuck outta here, lol. And just for the record, you got just as many, and actually probably more rappers on the East claiming gangsta this and thug that in everything they do. 50 Cent, Benie Segal, Fat Joe, Camron and the Dipset, Ja Rule, Lil Kim, Jay Z, Memphis Bleek, etc etc etc etc.

Cali has FAR less diversity than any other rap scene in the country, including the South.  I am definitely not out of touch with Cali; even if I hadn't lived there before (and I did), just looking at this board is enough to prove you wrong.

The East Coast may have lots of thug rappers, but the ratio of thugs to conscious rappers, political rappers, backpackers, etc. is far more balanced.  For every 50 Cent, there are 5 Talibs or Boot Camp Cliks, while the Western ratio is more like the opposite (for every Ras Kass or Lyrics Born, there's 5 Pac or Snoop wanna-bes).  West Coast niggas continue to believe that because they invented gangsta rap, that's all they should ever make.

And no, what you are saying does not characterize 99% of West Coast rap fans, again, that is you overgeneralizing us, an uninformed generalization at that. I would recommend that you take a trip to Cali, but then you will just see what you want to see. Yes there is lowriders and blunts out here, but if you honestly believe thats all we are, then you need to get off your computer and leave the house sometime.

Like I said, I have already lived in Cali.  I know what the fuck Cali is like.

And as I've said before, you only need to look at this board as proof that your argument is bullshit.  I realize that only a tiny % of posters are from Cali, but like I said, it's West Coast FANS as much as West Coast rappers I'm talking about.

If you know what Cali is like and you know all about the Cali rap scene and all that shit, how come you keep using "this board" as your point of reference? This is the internet, not California. Every single "point" you thought you made is officially voided because you are basing your "knowledge" of the West Coast on a fuckin internet message board where most of the people here aint even from Cali. You obviously do not know much about the California rap scene if you cant see how diverse the shit is here. We got cats like Paris (who Chuck D is signed with by the way), Askari X, The Coup, then you got Del and Heiro,The Lifesavas,  Blackalicious, Zion I, Aceyalone, Dilated Peoples then you got cats like Messy Marv, C-Bo, Yukmouth, Guce, Killa Tay, then you got Too Short, Mac Dre, Mac Mall, Xzibit Then you got The Federation, Kinsmoke, The Team, The Pack and then you got E-40 in his own damn league, Crooked I who is the best lyricist in rap and Ice Cube who is as versatile as anybody in rap. We got Dre, Bosko, Mike Mosley and Rick Rock makin hits for artists from coast to coast and Traxamillion up and coming. If you dont think that is diversity then you are lying to yourself. You come in here on your little rap soap box thinkin you gonna tell us whats what, but you dont even know what the fuck goes on out here, and the cold part about it is you say youre actually from here. Like I said, your fucked off perception of what the West Coast is, is based on old ass obsolete Cali stereotypes and a fuckin message board. Great job.
"Damn these niggas make me sick, all these West Cost cowards ridin New York dick." - Ice Cube

[Turf Hitta]

BACK TO THE TOPIC......

Personally, it's not Dre's responsibility or obligation to so called "help the west out", although I can understand why most of us feel that we need him to. I think the problem right now is that we are too dependent on Dre, and people just sit around waiting for Detox to come so that they can try to catch a deal, and producers are waiting on that so they'll know what sound to follow for the next few years. But IF Dre said "Detox is completely cancelled, and I'm retiring", the west would temporarily hate him and probably blame him for us never coming back....versus us saying "fuck it...well let's keep it movin...where's the next generation at?" I think we need to start looking towards a new sound, movement, and generation, instead of waiting on Dre to somehow bring us back. Personally, even if he comes with Detox and has a grip of west coast artists on it, it still may not "bring us back" because the 2001 era had A LOT of potential and dope artists/albums...but we still fell right back off.

 Yea, I think Dre's chapter is about to close. What we need is for the new producers (real producers, not beat makers) to come out. The West has depended on Dre to quarterback everything for way too long. When did he first come out as a producer/artist, 1987? Thats basically 20 years. Cali is a big place with a lot of people, I refuse to believe that Dre is the only one with the talent and ability to make hits in a state of 30 million people.

[s_dadry]

I'd say dat's it's not Dre's responsibility, but it would help alot of Westcoast Artist's if they got a beat from Dre!! Dre's done alot for the Westcoast already, so maybe he doesn't, but it would help!!

[Narrator]

I remember Power was playing all of them, not just the G-Funk. There are stereotypes, and at the time everyone was jumping on the G-Funk bandwagon, but at the same time, everyone was doing the same in the east, and in the mid-west and south. G-Funk was a nation thing that started from the west, so we got the stereotype. G-Funk and Gangsta Rap I think got worst once G-Funk died, because westcoast artist were wanting to become popular, and with the dying westcoast, they were trying to do what works, and that's G Funk/Gangsta Rap. We got tons of new artist that looked up to Ice T and NWA and 2Pac, and they all wanted to be on some Gangsta Rap shit. At the same time, that was the era that J-5 and Dilated Peoples were on the radio, and other non Gangsta Rap westcoast artist actually got some national play. It's ironic because it was at that time that the west was the most saturated with Gangsta Rappers, yet they were not getting play.

Bullshit.  I remember Power playing probably 90% gangsta records, both from L.A. and from the Bay.  And G-Funk wasn't imitated THAT much outside of Cali; the Midwest (Bone Thugs) were about the only other people who adopted it.  New York followed the stripped-down sound of RZA and the pop-sampling of Diddy when those styles became popular.  They retained their own niche.

I think your argument on this is hella biased....

For one, most rappers in NY who are up and coming rap about very similar topics, with most being the typical punchilnes, multis, drug, gun, and murder references. California has always had a large range of different artists, and we still do, but many of these artists just aren't heard as much. Maybe you have to be here for 21 years to understand it.

First of all, part of the reason those artists aren't heard as much is because their own coast refuses to support them.  I remember Pharcyde, Digital Underground, Freestyle Fellowship, Hieroglyphics, etc. getting far more love in the East than they were ever getting in the West.  So what does that say about the West, then?

Second, as I have said, the disproportionate number of gangstas to "alternative" artists is obvious.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You can list all the dope, unique artists from Cali you want, but for every Pharcyde, there are 10 Snoop or Pac wanna-bes.

And for you to say we are the most superficial and image obsessed is definitely the most biased, incorrect assumption I've heard in a long time.....I know a LOT of people from NY, and even though many of them are somewhat trapped between "thug and college student", most of them will judge rapper's street cred just as much or more than a typical person on the West would. Most people in L.A. could really care less about how "real" somebody is...but a NY cat will knock a dope rapper just because they "ain't from the hood" "they were soft in their hood" "they didn't grow up in the gutter" and all else. Please believe, people are the same in NY, L.A., the south, and the midwest....

Not nearly as much as in L.A., and honestly, the West in general.  West Coast rappers and fans alike are the ones who most frequently make the complaints about how certain hip-hop artists aren't "real enough" because they rap about things that aren't considered "street".  9 times out of 10, when I hear somebody criticizing 50 Cent or T.I. or Nelly or whoever, they'll immediately reference Pac or Cube.

NYC people aren't perfect, either.  Many of them can be elitist, and the backpacker sentiments can piss me off.  But generally speaking, they are far more open and tolerant of a wider variety of hip-hop styles than the average West Coast fans.

You can't act like everybody on the west was on the G-Funk bandwagon, as if NY hasn't jumped on EVERY single bandwagon that came along....as soon as they saw it was cool to cuss and rap about negativity, many of the artists started doing that....when Wu Tang and Nas came with that "from the streets" style, they all started doing that....when they saw it was cool to get jiggy and dress flashy, many, but not all, started doing that.....when they saw it's cool to rap about gangbangin like L.A. used to always do, some of the artists did that, such as Dipset and others.

Adopting bad langauge on record is about the ONLY bandwagon that the East took from the West.  But when it came time for the gangsta/hardcore age, the East carved out their own style and did their own thing; so even if they were gangsta, they were gangsta in their own way.  "Illmatic" and "Ready To Die" sound vastly different from "Dogg Food" and "All Eyez On Me".

And yes, everybody on the West was on the G-Funk bandwagon.  Even to this day, G-Funk influences are obvious in most West Coast records.

If you know what Cali is like and you know all about the Cali rap scene and all that shit, how come you keep using "this board" as your point of reference? This is the internet, not California. Every single "point" you thought you made is officially voided because you are basing your "knowledge" of the West Coast on a fuckin internet message board where most of the people here aint even from Cali.

I am using both.  But most of the white kids on this board who are fulfilling the stereotypes I'm discussing are doing so because they are directly imitating Cali rap fans who ARE from Cali.  West Coast fans, both on this board and in Cali (and I know many), are very much obsessed with gangsta image and other superficial traits.

You obviously do not know much about the California rap scene if you cant see how diverse the shit is here. We got cats like Paris (who Chuck D is signed with by the way), Askari X, The Coup, then you got Del and Heiro,The Lifesavas,  Blackalicious, Zion I, Aceyalone, Dilated Peoples then you got cats like Messy Marv, C-Bo, Yukmouth, Guce, Killa Tay, then you got Too Short, Mac Dre, Mac Mall, Xzibit Then you got The Federation, Kinsmoke, The Team, The Pack and then you got E-40 in his own damn league, Crooked I who is the best lyricist in rap and Ice Cube who is as versatile as anybody in rap.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

the disproportionate number of gangstas to "alternative" artists is obvious.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You can list all the dope, unique artists from Cali you want, but for every Pharcyde, there are 10 Snoop or Pac wanna-bes.

You also seem to be missing my point.  I don't have any particular problem with Cali.  I do, however, have a big problem with the fact that it is West Coast rap fans who are generally the ones doing most of the complaining about the state of hip-hop today, when many of them listen to artists who are just as responsible for fucking up the game as anyone from the East or the West.  They are the biggest bunch of hypocrites I've ever seen.

[Diabolical]

It doesn't matter, he can't bring the west back on his own.

[Turf Hitta]

If you know what Cali is like and you know all about the Cali rap scene and all that shit, how come you keep using "this board" as your point of reference? This is the internet, not California. Every single "point" you thought you made is officially voided because you are basing your "knowledge" of the West Coast on a fuckin internet message board where most of the people here aint even from Cali.

I am using both.  But most of the white kids on this board who are fulfilling the stereotypes I'm discussing are doing so because they are directly imitating Cali rap fans who ARE from Cali.  West Coast fans, both on this board and in Cali (and I know many), are very much obsessed with gangsta image and other superficial traits.

Your argument is still flawed because you are using people from a message board as your examples. I can go to sohh.com right now and make the broad generalization that East Coasters are close minded, obsessed with the thug persona, and only want to hear about selling crack in the projects and thats why they listen to jay z, 50 Cent, Mobb Deep, benie segal and dipset. I can also draw the conclusion that East Coasters dont like concious rappers based on lackluster sales from Mos Def, Kweli and De La Soul's recent albums. One might also make the generalization that all East Coasters hate cali and are ignorant 15 year olds. But I'm smarter than that. You dont judge a whole coast by a couple haters and dickriders on the internet.

 I'm just curious, when and where did you live in Cali? And are you saying that your issue is not with the actual rappers, but the fans?

 

You obviously do not know much about the California rap scene if you cant see how diverse the shit is here. We got cats like Paris (who Chuck D is signed with by the way), Askari X, The Coup, then you got Del and Heiro,The Lifesavas,  Blackalicious, Zion I, Aceyalone, Dilated Peoples then you got cats like Messy Marv, C-Bo, Yukmouth, Guce, Killa Tay, then you got Too Short, Mac Dre, Mac Mall, Xzibit Then you got The Federation, Kinsmoke, The Team, The Pack and then you got E-40 in his own damn league, Crooked I who is the best lyricist in rap and Ice Cube who is as versatile as anybody in rap.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

the disproportionate number of gangstas to "alternative" artists is obvious.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You can list all the dope, unique artists from Cali you want, but for every Pharcyde, there are 10 Snoop or Pac wanna-bes.

You also seem to be missing my point.  I don't have any particular problem with Cali.  I do, however, have a big problem with the fact that it is West Coast rap fans who are generally the ones doing most of the complaining about the state of hip-hop today, when many of them listen to artists who are just as responsible for fucking up the game as anyone from the East or the West.  They are the biggest bunch of hypocrites I've ever seen.

 If you intend to convince anyone you need to do more than just make vague statements about the rappers on the West with no facts or figures. I bet on any given day in Queens I can go find about 67 gansgsta/thug rappers out there on the same block probably per every 1 "concious" rapper. What does that mean? Nothin really, in any actual hood (not the suburbs or the internet) in America you are going to find that type of rapper in disproportionate amounts because thats what they know better than anything else. And what exactly do you mean "West Coast fans are the biggest hypocrites?" Are you actually going to sit there and pretend that NY rap fans do not bitch about the state of rap and then turn around and slap some Puff Daddy and Mase (or whatever bubble gum rapper who is playing that role at the minute)? As far as the Snoop and Pac wanna bes, are you actually going to try to convince us that every other NY rapper isnt a Jay Z, Nas or Mobb Deep wanna be?

[musicempire]

DRE is a legend but you have alot of new westcoast artist and producers comming up in the game go listen to the new buccweet westocast song the beat is crazy

[M Dogg™]

I remember Power was playing all of them, not just the G-Funk. There are stereotypes, and at the time everyone was jumping on the G-Funk bandwagon, but at the same time, everyone was doing the same in the east, and in the mid-west and south. G-Funk was a nation thing that started from the west, so we got the stereotype. G-Funk and Gangsta Rap I think got worst once G-Funk died, because westcoast artist were wanting to become popular, and with the dying westcoast, they were trying to do what works, and that's G Funk/Gangsta Rap. We got tons of new artist that looked up to Ice T and NWA and 2Pac, and they all wanted to be on some Gangsta Rap shit. At the same time, that was the era that J-5 and Dilated Peoples were on the radio, and other non Gangsta Rap westcoast artist actually got some national play. It's ironic because it was at that time that the west was the most saturated with Gangsta Rappers, yet they were not getting play.

Bullshit.  I remember Power playing probably 90% gangsta records, both from L.A. and from the Bay.  And G-Funk wasn't imitated THAT much outside of Cali; the Midwest (Bone Thugs) were about the only other people who adopted it.  New York followed the stripped-down sound of RZA and the pop-sampling of Diddy when those styles became popular.  They retained their own niche.

I think your argument on this is hella biased....

For one, most rappers in NY who are up and coming rap about very similar topics, with most being the typical punchilnes, multis, drug, gun, and murder references. California has always had a large range of different artists, and we still do, but many of these artists just aren't heard as much. Maybe you have to be here for 21 years to understand it.

First of all, part of the reason those artists aren't heard as much is because their own coast refuses to support them.  I remember Pharcyde, Digital Underground, Freestyle Fellowship, Hieroglyphics, etc. getting far more love in the East than they were ever getting in the West.  So what does that say about the West, then?

Second, as I have said, the disproportionate number of gangstas to "alternative" artists is obvious.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You can list all the dope, unique artists from Cali you want, but for every Pharcyde, there are 10 Snoop or Pac wanna-bes.

And for you to say we are the most superficial and image obsessed is definitely the most biased, incorrect assumption I've heard in a long time.....I know a LOT of people from NY, and even though many of them are somewhat trapped between "thug and college student", most of them will judge rapper's street cred just as much or more than a typical person on the West would. Most people in L.A. could really care less about how "real" somebody is...but a NY cat will knock a dope rapper just because they "ain't from the hood" "they were soft in their hood" "they didn't grow up in the gutter" and all else. Please believe, people are the same in NY, L.A., the south, and the midwest....

Not nearly as much as in L.A., and honestly, the West in general.  West Coast rappers and fans alike are the ones who most frequently make the complaints about how certain hip-hop artists aren't "real enough" because they rap about things that aren't considered "street".  9 times out of 10, when I hear somebody criticizing 50 Cent or T.I. or Nelly or whoever, they'll immediately reference Pac or Cube.

NYC people aren't perfect, either.  Many of them can be elitist, and the backpacker sentiments can piss me off.  But generally speaking, they are far more open and tolerant of a wider variety of hip-hop styles than the average West Coast fans.

You can't act like everybody on the west was on the G-Funk bandwagon, as if NY hasn't jumped on EVERY single bandwagon that came along....as soon as they saw it was cool to cuss and rap about negativity, many of the artists started doing that....when Wu Tang and Nas came with that "from the streets" style, they all started doing that....when they saw it was cool to get jiggy and dress flashy, many, but not all, started doing that.....when they saw it's cool to rap about gangbangin like L.A. used to always do, some of the artists did that, such as Dipset and others.

Adopting bad langauge on record is about the ONLY bandwagon that the East took from the West.  But when it came time for the gangsta/hardcore age, the East carved out their own style and did their own thing; so even if they were gangsta, they were gangsta in their own way.  "Illmatic" and "Ready To Die" sound vastly different from "Dogg Food" and "All Eyez On Me".

And yes, everybody on the West was on the G-Funk bandwagon.  Even to this day, G-Funk influences are obvious in most West Coast records.

If you know what Cali is like and you know all about the Cali rap scene and all that shit, how come you keep using "this board" as your point of reference? This is the internet, not California. Every single "point" you thought you made is officially voided because you are basing your "knowledge" of the West Coast on a fuckin internet message board where most of the people here aint even from Cali.

I am using both.  But most of the white kids on this board who are fulfilling the stereotypes I'm discussing are doing so because they are directly imitating Cali rap fans who ARE from Cali.  West Coast fans, both on this board and in Cali (and I know many), are very much obsessed with gangsta image and other superficial traits.

You obviously do not know much about the California rap scene if you cant see how diverse the shit is here. We got cats like Paris (who Chuck D is signed with by the way), Askari X, The Coup, then you got Del and Heiro,The Lifesavas,  Blackalicious, Zion I, Aceyalone, Dilated Peoples then you got cats like Messy Marv, C-Bo, Yukmouth, Guce, Killa Tay, then you got Too Short, Mac Dre, Mac Mall, Xzibit Then you got The Federation, Kinsmoke, The Team, The Pack and then you got E-40 in his own damn league, Crooked I who is the best lyricist in rap and Ice Cube who is as versatile as anybody in rap.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

the disproportionate number of gangstas to "alternative" artists is obvious.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You can list all the dope, unique artists from Cali you want, but for every Pharcyde, there are 10 Snoop or Pac wanna-bes.

You also seem to be missing my point.  I don't have any particular problem with Cali.  I do, however, have a big problem with the fact that it is West Coast rap fans who are generally the ones doing most of the complaining about the state of hip-hop today, when many of them listen to artists who are just as responsible for fucking up the game as anyone from the East or the West.  They are the biggest bunch of hypocrites I've ever seen.

[papa-smurf]

when dr dre left death row the westcoast dissed dre,so dre dissed the westcoast by blowing up again and not fucking with the westcoast,lets keep it real,for a long time before dre blew up again off of eminem the westcoast was dissing him,calling him gay and saying all kinds of shit about him,every since he droped 2001and got  back on top, everybody wonna jump on his dick and try 2 get a beat from him,the westcoast use 2 be grimy ass fuck,so its not a suprise that he dont fuck with the westcoast like that,the westcoast wasnt fucking with him until he made a come back,who in the hell was trying 2 get a beat from dre when he dropped that album the aftermath?muthafuckas trying 2 use dre,dre aint stupid,he know how the westcoast treated him before he blew aftermath up,