You know the real reason hip-hop is in a state of 911?

[Narrator]

I mean it's just like both our examples.  We've seen that shit before - to me when Nelly drops a song like AFO, it's pretty transparent.  Was he really making that song cuz that's how he felt, or cuz Nike cut him a fat check?  Or did some dick in a necktie say "hey remember that Run-DMC song that was about shoes that was a big hit? Let's re-do that shit.  We done got that formula and we know it works!"

And you know what?  Maybe Run-DMC got a phat check from Adidas for doing that song.  The difference for me is that I've been there / done that so when I see something that is nothing more than a blatant formulaic ripoff, I tend to denounce it.  But that shit ain't nothin new - it's been going on since the beginning of time.  But I'm looking for music that isn't doing that.  I want stuff that is innovative to me, not something that I've seen a 1000 times.  I need a musician to mature right along with me, not be stagnant or even digress like some of these cats.

Speaking about the same types of subject matter doesn't by itself equal a lack of innovation.  It's all about how you do the shit.

Most of the backpacker and wannabe thug white kids who hate on Nelly are only hating on him cause he ain't perceived as "street" enough and not as "real hip-hop".  The fact is, the average project nigga probably listens to someone like Nelly as much as hardcore shit like Pac or Biggie.  I know I do.

Well lets get on the same page.  I'm not saying you can't say that.  I'm asking why.  Do you just have an axe to grind with Overseer so your reaction is to create some online character and over dramatize everything?  Theres enough of those cocksuckers on this board.  They're entertaining in their own right every once in a while, but when that lame rhetoric oozes into every fucking thread they make it gets really fucking boring and predictable.

My online character was my militant self.  And Overseer banned me for that shit, so I've backed down on it.

My belief that white people fucked up hip-hop is observation.  As more white people I knew started listening to hip-hop, the balance became shifted, cause back then white people were only interested in listening to gangsta stuff, not conscious stuff.  Nowadays, things have become more complicated...since some white kids realize that they aren't getting accepted for dressing like Pac anymore, they've decided to try and latch on to conscious artists and "backpack" rappers.  But to me, it's all the same...it's still kids who have every opportunity that I never had growing up trying to fit in with a culture that wasn't meant for them.  Does that mean they can't listen to hip-hop?  No, but they need to stop trying to influence the direction of the culture so much because they don't seem to appreciate that record labels are listening to them, not us ("us" being the brothas).  The fundamental desire to be "ghetto" and to treat all this shit like it's a fuckin game is what pisses off people like me.

Now wait a second.  You say white people fucked up hip hop, yet you support them.  So therefore YOU'RE contributing to the bastardization of the culture aren't you?  Capitalism fucked up the essence of hip hop.  Then again, it made some young brothas more $$$ than BILLIONS of white/brown/red/yellow people all over the world could only dream of.  It's all back to the Yin and the Yang my brotha.

I support anyone with talent, and anyone who makes good music that contributes something to the culture.  Much as I wanted to hate on them the way I hated Vanilla Ice and Marky Mark, 3rd Bass and Eminem make (or made) hip-hop that was better than 90% of what too many other rappers are (and were) making.  If I'm feelin' a cracka who makes dope music, I don't deny it.

Yes, we all gotta make our dough.  Every nigga who grows up broke wants money, ho's, clothes, whips, and other shit his parents could never buy him.  Ain't no disputing that.  But there was a time when cats could get their paper making music without catering to the white kids.  That's the kind of times that need to return.

run dmc did it for the style, nelly did it for cash, but maybe he did it for free i don't know, but it doesn't look like

You really believe that?  If so, you're playing yourself, homie.

[AndrE16686]

It the people who whine and bitch about any music that isn't political and conscious that ruin it.

They think they're above everyone else because of their "superior" taste in music when truth is, they don't even know what to do when a club track plays and they feel like clowns.

exactly man, the backpackers i hate the most, its like, why not put out some "social concious" hip hop that doesn't sound like fucking emo gay sauce you assholes, make it catchy for once then blame dipset or the south if no one wants to listen

 

tell you the honest to God truth, hip hop isnt in any state...and no one single person/region fucked it up, if you can honestly sit up and point and say a particular person or state fucked up hip hop, then shit you bout as fucked up as the person you puttin the blame on, kuz i bet money neither hip hop or the people you hatin gives a fuck what you think..

people need to just shut the fuck up and get some pussy,get high and enjoy the music ...you were born to die..southern rap crunk and other shit people hate on gone be around still while your ass is dead..hip hop aint that serious, if you dont like somethin dont listen to it, listen to the shit you like, i pretty sure the people you dislike can tell you more about your favorite rapper than you can prolly a bigger fan than you are.

For real. Co-fucken-sign all that shit.

[jeromechickenbone]

Most of the backpacker and wannabe thug white kids who hate on Nelly are only hating on him cause he ain't perceived as "street" enough and not as "real hip-hop".  The fact is, the average project nigga probably listens to someone like Nelly as much as hardcore shit like Pac or Biggie.  I know I do.

So white people only dislike Nelly because he's not perceived as street enough?  I'm sure there are some that are guilty of that, but I know numerous white folk that aren't really into hip hop at all and still perceive him as wack / corny and it has nothing to do with his perceived "gangsta".  These same people are huge Outkast fans but only became a fan after hearing "Rosa Parks".  That sure as hell doesn't qualify as gangsta rap.  So sure, there are self loathing white boys out there denouncing Nelly while simultaneously praising 50 and Young Joc / Jeezy, when in reality I'd group all of those cats in the same category.  They're all equally garbage in my book.  Their shit just feels WAY too contrived and premeditated.  And off top, their shit is mad corny.  Fuck their subject matter, their music plain sucks. 

I mean it's just like both our examples.  We've seen that shit before - to me when Nelly drops a song like AFO, it's pretty transparent.  Was he really making that song cuz that's how he felt, or cuz Nike cut him a fat check?  Or did some dick in a necktie say "hey remember that Run-DMC song that was about shoes that was a big hit? Let's re-do that shit.  We done got that formula and we know it works!"

And you know what?  Maybe Run-DMC got a phat check from Adidas for doing that song.  The difference for me is that I've been there / done that so when I see something that is nothing more than a blatant formulaic ripoff, I tend to denounce it.  But that shit ain't nothin new - it's been going on since the beginning of time.  But I'm looking for music that isn't doing that.  I want stuff that is innovative to me, not something that I've seen a 1000 times.  I need a musician to mature right along with me, not be stagnant or even digress like some of these cats.

Speaking about the same types of subject matter doesn't by itself equal a lack of innovation.  It's all about how you do the shit.

Exactly.  When I say that I've heard the exact same shit 1000 times, I'm not necessarily saying that I'm tired of the subject matter.  It's shit like how nearly every major hip hop album released has to have the exact same style for a single, the exact same producers, feature the same rappers, the same R&B hooks.  I can't bring myself to purchase hardly any albums cuz it's really the same shit over and over again. 

Well lets get on the same page.  I'm not saying you can't say that.  I'm asking why.  Do you just have an axe to grind with Overseer so your reaction is to create some online character and over dramatize everything?  Theres enough of those cocksuckers on this board.  They're entertaining in their own right every once in a while, but when that lame rhetoric oozes into every fucking thread they make it gets really fucking boring and predictable.

My online character was my militant self.  And Overseer banned me for that shit, so I've backed down on it.

My belief that white people fucked up hip-hop is observation.  As more white people I knew started listening to hip-hop, the balance became shifted, cause back then white people were only interested in listening to gangsta stuff, not conscious stuff.  Nowadays, things have become more complicated...since some white kids realize that they aren't getting accepted for dressing like Pac anymore, they've decided to try and latch on to conscious artists and "backpack" rappers.  But to me, it's all the same...it's still kids who have every opportunity that I never had growing up trying to fit in with a culture that wasn't meant for them.  Does that mean they can't listen to hip-hop?  No, but they need to stop trying to influence the direction of the culture so much because they don't seem to appreciate that record labels are listening to them, not us ("us" being the brothas).  The fundamental desire to be "ghetto" and to treat all this shit like it's a fuckin game is what pisses off people like me.

Ok, but do you hold the black artist accountable for pandering to a white audience, or is it acceptable because they are getting paid?  If there are white kids only supporting them because deep down they want to be an ill privelged black kid from the hood, then all a black cat has to do is cease pandering to that market.  If there is no icon, there is no idol. 

I mean I can just as easily sit here and say something ignorant such as "Hip hop has been ruined by black people.  All the REAL hip hop has died because it didn't cater to anyone but itself.  And it would still be here if black people would have went to the god damn record store and bought that shit rather than bootleg it from the nigga on the block uptown".  You don't see bootleggers chillin up in suburbia do you?  But you can't walk 2 blocks in say Cincinnati without some nigga trying to sell you some bootleg cd's, r kelly pornos and unlicensed t-shirts with hip hop faces on them.  Thats black on black crime right there.  Right hand cuts off the left hand.

Now wait a second.  You say white people fucked up hip hop, yet you support them.  So therefore YOU'RE contributing to the bastardization of the culture aren't you?  Capitalism fucked up the essence of hip hop.  Then again, it made some young brothas more $$$ than BILLIONS of white/brown/red/yellow people all over the world could only dream of.  It's all back to the Yin and the Yang my brotha.

I support anyone with talent, and anyone who makes good music that contributes something to the culture.  Much as I wanted to hate on them the way I hated Vanilla Ice and Marky Mark, 3rd Bass and Eminem make (or made) hip-hop that was better than 90% of what too many other rappers are (and were) making.  If I'm feelin' a cracka who makes dope music, I don't deny it.

Yes, we all gotta make our dough.  Every nigga who grows up broke wants money, ho's, clothes, whips, and other shit his parents could never buy him.  Ain't no disputing that.  But there was a time when cats could get their paper making music without catering to the white kids.  That's the kind of times that need to return.

Again, your statement is inherently flawed.  You prop Em and MC Serch but are angry about music that caters to white kids.  Did those guys make music that catered to white kids?  Or did they do the crime of all crimes and take the black art form and leave the other 90% of the rap game in the dust?  Imagine all the black kids IDOLIZING WHITEY!  And you have the fuckin nerve to SUPPORT THEM?!?Your predisposition to have a chip on your shoulder makes you blame whitey, when they're not the problem.  The problem is that the music industry today caters to the young and ignorant.  And whether you like it or not that includes blacks / whites / mexicans / asians or whatever.

[suckaa free]

Cause everybody loves to blame everybody but themselves and their own favorite artists.

The proof?  Read that 50 interview where he blamed Southern rap for fucking up the game.  Look at Dipset fans.  Or, better yet, look at West Coast fans in general.

Everybody needs to accept that almost EVERY popular rapper who has been influential in the past 20 years or so has had a hand in fucking up the game in some way or another, from N.W.A. right on down to the 50s and Cam'rons of the world today.

i dont know how NWA, Public Enemy, Nas, Too $hort, Dr. Dre,  etc fucked up the game in anyway...i agree with you that there are people that have led hip-hop into some shitty shit, but not everyone.

People that have fucked up hip-hop(had something to do with fucking hip-hop)

Jay-Z
Lil Jon
F. Boyz
D4L
Ying Yang Twins
Reggeaton(Pitbull, Daddy Yankee to be exact)
etc...

[WestCoasta]

to me, it seems the majority of the artists in the game just don't know what to do

ya know?

[suckaa free]

Cause everybody loves to blame everybody but themselves and their own favorite artists.

The proof?  Read that 50 interview where he blamed Southern rap for fucking up the game.  Look at Dipset fans.  Or, better yet, look at West Coast fans in general.

Everybody needs to accept that almost EVERY popular rapper who has been influential in the past 20 years or so has had a hand in fucking up the game in some way or another, from N.W.A. right on down to the 50s and Cam'rons of the world today.

i dont know how NWA, Public Enemy, Nas, Too $hort, Dr. Dre,  etc fucked up the game in anyway...i agree with you that there are people that have led hip-hop into some shitty shit, but not everyone.

People that have fucked up hip-hop(had something to do with fucking hip-hop)

Jay-Z
Lil Jon
F. Boyz
D4L
Ying Yang Twins
Reggeaton(Pitbull, Daddy Yankee to be exact)
etc...

oh yea, add p. diddy to that list.

[QuietTruth]

I don't understand how almost every rapper fucked up the game, even the artists from 20 years ago....What's the point of hip hop if it's been fucked up since the jump?