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The Myth of "POWERFUL CENTER OF JERUSALEM"

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*Z* - The Queen of Dubcc:

--- Quote from: Yay AREA 510 CUTTHOAT on November 01, 2006, 09:25:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: *Z* on November 01, 2006, 06:25:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: King Tech Quadafi on November 01, 2006, 05:05:51 PM ---^ dont bother, youre just wasting your time. My beloved appreciation for the American govt has led me to create a no post list based on America's no fly list.

c walker
igeezy
nik
traumama

are all members of this club. when they attempt to make any sort of political commentary, dont waste your time

--- End quote ---

strange that u r still wasting your time by listing the members you dislike only becuz they are not sucking up your dick.
you really piss me off

--- End quote ---
its not cuz of that, its cuz u guys are jews, and you all are trying to justify killing innocent people.  and your people are robbing arabs.

--- End quote ---
how are cwalker, me and trauma jewish? and even if so how can i justify deeds of people i dont know, how can u say "your people" as if i know any of them, as if with these people you mean the entire nation.
this is an ugly generalization!
you cant limit your point of view to one side, but thing is that as long as there are nationalities devided into countries, their main duty is to protect their own nation. some countries care more about it others less.
but fact is that living in this way devided by nationality and religion causes racism, people forget that there is only one nation, the mankind. and as long as this is gonna go on like that, we are gonna keep destroying each other,
cuz darkness cant drive out darkness and hate cant drive out hate, it can only cause even more destruction

virtuoso:
What a load of crap I am sorry but this has nothing to do with sovereignty in the sense of defending soverignty and everything to do with the disdain that Israel has for other countries sovereignty. Furthermore this generalisation that nationality and religion is the reason for wars is bizarre, I have read about this subject in great depth and usually a war is instigated not by just one country, but its a conglomerate, the conglomerates aims are to gain more control. Now your solution is a one world government in other words a global dictatotrship where these conglomerates have absolute power. Going back to the middle east, some of these israelis are so sick and downright evil that they view the arabs as lesser life forms, they don't recognise that palestinians have a right to exist in palestine, you are basically talking about a bunch of cold cruel criminals who view themselves as superior. I am of course talking about the people running the country, however of course it works both ways and some arabs views jews with disdain, the vile tactics of the IDF and government have fermaneted these views. This notion that Israel is under threat is just a completely sick fallacy, it was Israel who blew the shit out of Lebanon, it was Israel who occupied Lebanon until Hezbollah drove them out. Under threat my ass, when former israeli army officials and politicians are presented with the cold hard facts of how they are making the palestinian people suffer they do not even deny it.

What is really really stupid though is to generalise people as "you jews are all the same" it's like this bizarre twisted notion of black muslims when they try convincing the black men that white people are devils no matter which white people you are talking about. The reality is that jewish people are just as manipulated and lied to by their government as any other nations. Like I said it's really idiotic calling out jewish people in general. That being said I really feel like the media likes to manipulate people into this situation when they always seem to present the hardcore zionists on television. In reality there are many jews themselves who are against zionism and many israelis who protest against the suffering of the palestinians. Some of which end up getting shot or they get locked up on charges of aiding the enemy, treason etc.

*Z* - The Queen of Dubcc:

--- Quote from: virtuoso on November 02, 2006, 05:27:43 AM ---What a load of crap I am sorry but this has nothing to do with sovereignty in the sense of defending soverignty and everything to do with the disdain that Israel has for other countries sovereignty. Furthermore this generalisation that nationality and religion is the reason for wars is bizarre, I have read about this subject in great depth and usually a war is instigated not by just one country, but its a conglomerate, the conglomerates aims are to gain more control. Now your solution is a one world government in other words a global dictatotrship where these conglomerates have absolute power. Going back to the middle east, some of these israelis are so sick and downright evil that they view the arabs as lesser life forms, they don't recognise that palestinians have a right to exist in palestine, you are basically talking about a bunch of cold cruel criminals who view themselves as superior. I am of course talking about the people running the country, however of course it works both ways and some arabs views jews with disdain, the vile tactics of the IDF and government have fermaneted these views. This notion that Israel is under threat is just a completely sick fallacy, it was Israel who blew the shit out of Lebanon, it was Israel who occupied Lebanon until Hezbollah drove them out. Under threat my ass, when former israeli army officials and politicians are presented with the cold hard facts of how they are making the palestinian people suffer they do not even deny it.

--- End quote ---

but u cant deny that nationalism is one of the main causes for hatred among people. i never claimed that religion and nationality is the only reason for wars...i said it plays a great role in many wars PLUS it is a nice working tool for the government to manipulate people. nothing more nothing less.
and interesting...
okay, but tell me, what consequences for israel would it have had if israel hadnt done anything? do you think the arabs would have just stopped firing missles and wanting to detroy israel and everyone would live in peace and harmony??? isnt it a bit more complex than that?

I TO DA GEEZY:

--- Quote from: Yay AREA 510 CUTTHOAT on November 01, 2006, 12:35:57 PM ---i get it, you mean ISRAEL MUST KILL ALL ARABS, PALESTINIAN OR LEBANESE

--- End quote ---

Do u find ALL Arabs to be a threat to Israeli citizens?

virtuoso:
Let me answer it by saying this of course nationality can also be a factor but it's not nationality as in the way the people view nationality, it's nationality in the sense of the way the media has manipulated people into perceiving other nationalities. For example the media has manipulated this view that arab's are something to fear, that shariah law is going to come to this country any moment now. Religion to me is a tool used by the elite to steer a populous towards hatred, distrust and violence towards another nation, religion in itself is not the cause it the way it is being manipulated, sovereign nations are not the cause of wars it is not the populous who wants war it is the elite. As for you asking about Israel, well there are many facets to this and once again to me it comes down to the desire of the elite for war. Iran who are now being hyped as thid deadly threat are a prime example of this, when Mosadeq was in power he was described by many as a moderare, someone friendly to the west and who was in fact a friend to both Israel and the U.S. However such a pact could not last because Israel refused to recognise the palestinians continued taking palestinian land, ethnically cleansing palestinians from their homes which they had lived in for 10,000 years and eventually the burgeoning relaionship between Mosadeq and the west was cut to ribbons when Mosadeq was accused of carrying out a flurry of terrorist attacks against anti government groups. I should add that if you go the CIA website the documents have now been declassified discussing how it was the CIA who orchestrated these terrorist bombings to overthrow Mosadeq, now of course in his place is the current iranian leader, who is ultra hard line and keeps making such blatant anti western rhetoric that I am suspicious of who he really works for but that is pure speculation on my part.

This goes on even the most staunch supporters of the necons and the western plans for the middle east will freely admit that the PLO were ready to recognise Israel and so a permanent peace was in sight. Now as you know Hamas slowly began to rise to prominence and gain grassroots support from the palestinain people, after they became disillusioned and dismayed by a lot of internal corruption in the PLO. Again Hamas very much a hardline party were the complete opposite of the PLO and were not ready to accept peace. Then I start reading into Hamas into more detail and read many reports and essays written by former CIA analysts, and historical documents (I have posted an article written by a CIA analyst on this) and it becomes apparent that Hamas did not spring from nowehere they were created and funded by the Israelis. It's a case of divide and conquer and you know the rest the PLO were weakened and undermined and eventually Hamas have come to power. As soon as they did so, aid funding was cut, they were denounced as a terrorist government, members of the government have been kidnapped and now peace seems just a dream again.

Now in terms of defending itself, Israel will bombard palestinian towns for weeks on end, block supplies from coming in, destroy water supplies, electricity supplies, impose 24 hour curfews, complete martial law and then when a soldier gets shot this oppression will increase ten fold and they will say we are defending ourselves, now they aren't they are destroying these people, the palstinians dont have jets, apaches, tanks, the latest high tech weaponry. They are instead what, people so desperate and so consumed by hatred because of how they have been treated that they blow themselves up and people fighting tanks with AK's. Suicide bombings were unheard of before the situation became so desperate that I guess some people feel all hope is lost. If you are talking about hezbollah, those rockets really are piss poor, I mean we are talking about quite primitive weapons, the australian CNN woman presenter asked this to the government spokesman "you have the capability to shoot down these rockets, why arent you doing so" the female official offered no reply. So in other words they are deliberately allowing the rockets to hit their targets to garner the support of the jewish people and using that as a pretext for attacking Lebanon. I should add also that I have a friend who moved back from Lebanon about 2 years ago and she told me that Israel was firing on Lebanon 2 years ago. It's well documented that israeli fighters are violating lebanese airspace, the U.N have doucmented dozens and dozens of cases in the last few years.

So bascally what I am saying is they are creating the atmosphere of hatred, creating the necessary pawns to weaken opposition against them, deliberately allowing a situation to become more chaotic and deliberately cutting off olive branches because there is a need to have an enemy. So I guess my question back is defend themselves from who? it's just that the notion of defending yourself, I dont know....I always liken it to the person who stands up to the bullies, but Israel is not a defenceless child it is just another cog, the armies are being used and the soldiers fighitng in these armies have been completely duped into believing that they are fighting for their country when it's simply not the case.

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