COLTS

[Shallow]

lol at the people that said I'm a moron for thinking Indy was gonna kill KC today.

If you looked at all the factors before the game, you wouldnt have thought that 
But nice call anyways, but this game was the COMPLETE opposite then both teams have played all year..Crazy Game. The Chiefs offense looked scared..The defense was on the field ALL Day but played well nonetheless. LOL@ Peyton Manning..Guys a joke in the playoffs i dont care if he completed 25 passes, he threw 3 pics that were AWFUL. Poor Decisions. The Defense bailed him out, for probably the first time ever in a big game. If he does this shit next week they will get ran the fuck outta there. Why does peyton have mulitple INT games almost ALWAYS in the playoffs, yet NEVER has multiple INT games in the reg season? Cuz its in his head. Hes not a winner, and he gets shook in big games. LOL@ anyone saying Manning is better then Brady, GIVE ME A FUCKIN BREAK...

The second INT was a poor decision, the first and third were either blown routes or too much faith in Harrison. The first one Harrison faked outside then went in and Manning bought the fake I guess. The third INT Manning saw the drop back to the inside and knew that there was only an open play to the outside. I guess Harrison didn't see that, or thought Manning would risk throwing over the defense, and went inside. In both cases the ball would have been on target if Harrison moved out instead of in. When a QB and WR play together for so long they get a feel for each other. In this case each guy they felt wrong a couple of times. But in both cases Manning made the right move to the outside because that was the more playable throw and catch. If he threw it inside to Harrison the third INT probably would have been intercepted anyway by the guy that dropped back and the first would have been batted down or in the air. With a lesser receiver Manning may not have made those throws. But with the great Marvin Harrison he put faith in his number 1 guy. And while everyone notices that Manning drops down a notch in the big games no one notices that Harrison drops down as well. Instead we get Manning is choking again and Ty Law praise. Law didn't even have to move to the ball it was thrown right to him twice. Forget Payton under pressure, I wouldn't have made those throws, and I suck. Of course if I thought my golden WR would move that way then I would have. People should study these two guys more and you'll notice that Manning and Harrison make plays like that successfully. In this case it was a mis-read. Manning could have taken a better look at Harrison to know he wasn't going to go outside and Harrison could have looked at the D to realize he had no catch inside. That being said, the second INT was a complete mess and all Manning's fault.

Of course I still think think the Ravens will win, even though I want the Colts. Hope I'm wrong. Harrison doesn't have many years left and he deserves a ring and I don't want Manning to go down like Marino did. (Of course Manning isn't an athletic QB so unless he has a big injury he'll play until he's 40 if he doesn't win and by that time he'll end up leaving to go to a super Defense team and win the Tom Brady way; let the Defense and the O-Line win the games but get the glory, and the perfume commercials.)

You make good points, however you can analyze Peyton's int's all day long, but neway you slice it HE ALWAYS Throws multiple INTS in the playoffs, When that type of shit happens its a mental thing. I saw how Him and Marvin messed up a few times yeah, but hes still throwing ints like he always does, and nobody can deny that. Some of it is in his head. Anybody that cant see that needs to get off Peytons nuts, and stop making excuses for him...

He's only thrown multiple INTs in 3 of his 10 playoff starts and only lost twice so far with multiple INT games. I don't need to be on his nuts to see the stats. The fact remains that when Manning "slumps" in the playoffs his numbers are still slightly better than Brady's when Brady "excels" in the playoffs. Yet because Brady has that solid D and solid line to move the ball he always gets the praise. Indy is an offensive team so right away it's going to be harder to win as a QB because you don't have a strong D to win the game (usually, they did great against KC). If Peyton Manning had moved to Baltimore in 2000, NE in 2001, Tampa in 2002, and NE again in 2003 and 2004, he'd be a 5 years in a row champion and they'd have won pretty easily each Superbowl Game. The point of this is that those teams would have won anyway like they did win, but Manning would have gotten this false praise as Mr. Superbowl. His numbers in the playoffs are still great numbers no matter how you slice it. The problem is that his numbers in the season are on pace to break every record that exists so people hold him to such a high regard that when he drops from amazing to great they think he sucks.

I know Brady is good under pressure and I won't deny that, but everyone knows the majority of his passes are much safer with quick outs to open receivers and screen passes dominating his repertoire. He can still throw the great pass when he does, but if he threw as many risky passes down field as Manning he'd have at least as many INTs. Manning can't play the quick out to the side open man or the screen pass because 1) he doesn't have the O-line to force blitzes and pick them up leaving a guy open with time to throw and block like animals to give the screen more yards. He also doesn't have the Defense to fall back on that will create huge turnovers and score defensive TDs.

In the end, my point is that no QB in the league, not Brady, not McNabb, not Vick, not Favre, would have taken the Colts in any given year to the Superbowl. Last year the Steelers rushed the line so well no one would have found time to make plays. The year before that the Pats D wouldn't let up a play downfield or let anyone get anywhere. The year before that his WRs were getting thrown around by NE and getting no calls. People brag about the 4 INTs but forget about how manhandled the receivers were getting to make those INTs possible. Two years before that the Jets scored 41 points. Two years before that Miami was the number 3 Defense and they still got 17 points which a better Manning still could have won, but beating high powered Oakland that year was unlikely and beating Baltimore was next to impossible. Only in his first year in the playoffs, second year in the league, could the Manning of today have had a chance to get to the Superbowl. They could have beaten the Titans that year with a better Manning, an they could have beaten the Jags. Beating the Rams with with Indy's ranked 17 points allowed defense would have been tricky though, but do-able. Of course I still think that year would have been Buffalo's all the way if Wade Phillips hadn't made the stupidest coaching decision in the history of football and replaced his proven winner with a proven klutz for the playoffs then keep that klutz the next year because you blame the loss on a trick play.

real spit man damn +1
I just wouldnt want Peyton Manning leading me...He hasnt proven it in the big games yet, and yesterday proved my point even more. You make great points tho..This is My opinion...

And I understand what you mean, and why a lot of people think that but let's look at the great QBs in the NFL starting from the first Superbowl (the ones who have proven it;

Bart Starr - Superbowl 1 - 16 of 23 for 250 yards with 2TDs and 1 INT

                 - Superbowl 2 - 13 0f 24 for 202 yards with 1TD

Great performances but not mind boggling. His real feats came in the Ice Bowl despite being sacked 8 times. Starr was a war horse that lead his team to 5 Championships, but remember that Greenbay's Defense was always better then their offense. Something that could never be said for Manning.

Joe Namath - Superbowl 3 - 17 for 28 with 202 yards.

No interception but almost no long passes. People praise Broadway Joe for beating the "unstoppable" Colts  but they seem to forget that the Jets kept the Colts to 7 points after Baltimore had just scored 34 against Cleveland in the NFL Championship. And the great Johnny Unitas was hurt all season and only played at the very end of this game. His replacement Morall who played great in the season couldn't put anything up in the Superbowl. Also Unitas in first Superbowl win at Superbowl 5 threw two INTs and fumbled.


Roger Staubach - Superbowl 6 - 12 for 19 with 119 yards.

                       - Superbowl 12 - 17 for 25 and 183 yards

He won MVP for the first win. Not exactly numbers to die for in either game.

Terry Bradshaw(4 rings) - Superlbowl 9 - 9 for 14 with 96 yards

                                  - Superbowl 10 - 9 for 19 with 209 yards

                                  - Superbowl 13 - 17 for 30 with 318 yards and 1 INT

                                  - Superbowl 14 - 14 for 21 with 309 yards and 3 INTs

I'd day only one of those was an exceptional performance and that was Superbowl 13. Also his offense was also never has strong as the defense in any of his Superbowl wins, and the run and screen passes were high on the repertoire. And the road to the second and third Superbowl wins were plagued with Bradshaw INTs.


Joe Montana - (4 rings) - Superbowl 16 - 14 for 22 with 157 yards

                                 - Superbowl 19 - 24 for 35 with 331 yards (exceptional game)

                                 - Superbowl 23 - 23 for 36 with 357 yards (another great one)

                                 - Superbowl 24 - 22 for 29  with 297 yards (back to back strong showings)


Monatana is certainly one of the very best, but we also have to remember that the fist two wins were plagued with Montana INTs in the playoffs; 4 in the first win and 5 in the second. And they had number 2 and 1 ranked defenses as far as letting points up was concerned. The third was almost thrown away by Montana when he threw an almost INT late in the game but it was dropped by the DB (Lewis Billips). The 4th win was simply stunning. Maybe the greatest overall team in NFL history won that year.


Bret Favre - Superbowl 31 - 14 for 27 with 247 yards.

Decent numbers, but amazing team. Number 1 offense and defense that year. In the playoffs Favre was 11 for 15 with 79 yards in the first game (with two defensive TDs to help win) and 19 for 29 with 292 yards and 1 INT in the second game. And the superbowl game could have went either way until Howard had the kick return TD.


John Elway - Superbowl 32 - 12 for 22 with 123 yards and 1 INT

                - Superbowl 3 - 18 for 229 with 336 yards and 1 INT

Both years and both games relied heavily on the amazing lie and running by Terrell Davis. 1750 the first year and 2008 in the second year. 157 yards, 3 TDS and MVP in the first Superbowl, and 102 yards in the second.


I've already talked about Brady so I won't go into him again. I think I have shown that there is a lot of myth behind the great quarterbacks that lead their teams to Superbowls. Starr, Namath, and Bradshaw won with big defensive teams and few pass attempts. Staubach had decent defense but a lot of runners and threw little. Monatana and Favre had great Ds, and Monatana played west coast style with a lot of shot passes make his stats seem a lot higher. None of these QBs have ever had to rely on a big play pass offense as the key to the team. The running is secondary and the defense was never all that great. The first year in the playoffs the Colts were ranked 17th in letting up points. The second year 15th. The year after that year they were the 2nd highest scoring team but ended up 6-10. The next year Dungy came with a new defense and got them as high as 7th. But the year after that it was back down to 20. Then 19th. And this year they are ranked 23rd. Last year is a bit tricky, because they didn't let up many points but they didn't play many winning or high scoring teams either. The handful of offensive teams they did play all scored over 20 points on them. Cinci as high as 37 points. Manning is the only great that had to rely on a pass first defense that wasn't based on screen passes and quick outs and a team that has very questionable Defense more often than not. There is one other QG great that had to face this that I can think of; Dan Marino.







 

[Shallow]

One more thing, there is always GONNA Be something standing in Peyton's way, one days hes just gonna have to overcome it and get the job done...

You really think Brady in his prime or Montana in his prime could have taken the Colts to the Superbowl and won with the Colts team and Colts system? Manning is just the QB, and his job is to throw the ball. I'm positive Manning on any of the 49ers or Pats Superbowl teams would have won. I'm not so sure the Colts would have with Montana or Brady.

[The Big Bad Ass]

^^ There is no doubt about it. To bad the media never acknowledges this.

[Shallow]

^^ There is no doubt about it. To bad the media never acknowledges this.

Because the media needs to sell games, and they love the idea of the "struggling" Manning vs the poise of Brady. QBs in general get way too much credit when the teams win and too much blame when they lose. The two most important parts of a great team are the O-Line and the D-Line. If you have the best O-Line in the league you can create time for a mediocre QB to look great, create time for middle of the road route runners to get open, and create holes for any back to run clean through. If you have the best D-Line in the league you can always put pressure on a QB, making him rush the pass, and leaving little time for route runners to finish their routes, and cover up any hole leaving even the greatest back with nowhere to run. You could have Bret Favre '95, Ladanian Tomlinson '06, Jerry Rice '89, Randy Moss '98, and Shannon Sharpe '97 all on the same team, but if you have the worst O-line in the league you aren't going anywhere. The NFL doesn't really acknowledge that because Offensive Tackles aren't stars and can't be promoted. There are other politics too that come from having the right agent and the right friends in the booth. Emmit Smith gets  mentioned as one of the very best tens times more than Barry Sanders and anyone that thinks Smith is a better runner than Sanders is an idiot. ESPN did their top guys from each era on a spot for LT this year and they went from Brown to Sayers to Payton to Smith, not even mentioning Sanders.

["THE" MoSav]

One more thing, there is always GONNA Be something standing in Peyton's way, one days hes just gonna have to overcome it and get the job done...

You really think Brady in his prime or Montana in his prime could have taken the Colts to the Superbowl and won with the Colts team and Colts system? Manning is just the QB, and his job is to throw the ball. I'm positive Manning on any of the 49ers or Pats Superbowl teams would have won. I'm not so sure the Colts would have with Montana or Brady.

who knows? We can speculate all we want, but When the COLTS Lose Peyton throws pics that are very untimely. And Montana and Brady dont. Thats my point...I think Peyton is great, dont get me wrong. Id just rather have Brady in a big game, wheres the crime in that?

["THE" MoSav]

^^ There is no doubt about it. To bad the media never acknowledges this.

Because the media needs to sell games, and they love the idea of the "struggling" Manning vs the poise of Brady. QBs in general get way too much credit when the teams win and too much blame when they lose. The two most important parts of a great team are the O-Line and the D-Line. If you have the best O-Line in the league you can create time for a mediocre QB to look great, create time for middle of the road route runners to get open, and create holes for any back to run clean through. If you have the best D-Line in the league you can always put pressure on a QB, making him rush the pass, and leaving little time for route runners to finish their routes, and cover up any hole leaving even the greatest back with nowhere to run. You could have Bret Favre '95, Ladanian Tomlinson '06, Jerry Rice '89, Randy Moss '98, and Shannon Sharpe '97 all on the same team, but if you have the worst O-line in the league you aren't going anywhere. The NFL doesn't really acknowledge that because Offensive Tackles aren't stars and can't be promoted. There are other politics too that come from having the right agent and the right friends in the booth. Emmit Smith gets  mentioned as one of the very best tens times more than Barry Sanders and anyone that thinks Smith is a better runner than Sanders is an idiot. ESPN did their top guys from each era on a spot for LT this year and they went from Brown to Sayers to Payton to Smith, not even mentioning Sanders.

LOL. Anyone that knows me, knows that i dont judge football off the MEDIA, and i never would! I watch so much football its disgusting, so i make my claims based off what i see..you make many great points. Ill be the first one to say its CRAP that Namath is in the hall of fame, hes really ONE guy that didnt derserve it he trhew more career INTS then TD's and never threw more td's in a  season then INTS...HOF MY ASS! But guys like Tom Brady are great and make plays, you cant hold anyting against him because he didnt always have to throw 40 times a game, well niether did Aikman but does that mean he doesnt deserve to be in the HOF either? And last year Peyton had the #1 offense and #3 defense in the NFL and fucked up vs Pitt with 2 pics, NO EXCUSES they should have won it all last year. And yes PITT had a great run game, but how many points did the offense put up? If peyton does throw those pics they dont lose..

we both are gonna argue all day about this. Shallow you make great points as do i...

["THE" MoSav]

please dont tell me that youre blaming Peyton's losses on a bad O-LINE???
YEAH RIGHT! They  just got outcoached and outplayed by Pitt last year, his O-Line was great all year, and its not like he had no time to throw, he just couldnt sit back there ALL Day and throw deep posts to Marvin...

[Shallow]

1. Montana did throw picks in big games. Quite a few of them. But the team still won. On road to his first Superbowl he threw 1 against the Giants and an INT TD return by SF defensive back Ronnie Lott helped give them the win. Lott had an earlier INT that led to a TD drive as well. Montana then threw 3 picks against Dallas in the next game, but SF won anyway thanks to a key sack and fumble near the end of the game kept Dallas from getting to kick a winning FG (as well as a great tackle before that prevented a Cowboys game winning TD). On route to his next Superbowl Montana threw three picks against the Giants and 2 gainst the Bears. Luckily the teams were held to 10 and 0 points respectively. (Also  in the Superbowl that year the 9ers held the Miami powerhouse offense that averaged 32 points a game and never scored less than 21 points in any game of the season to a season low 16 points). Montana then threw some INTs in the next three years during the games they were eliminated in, and didn't go INT free until his '89 run. This was in his 11th year. (Manning's still in his 9th year).

Also, there's no crime in wanting Brady. Go ahead and take him. His team can win with him. I just think that, like I said about McNabb for years, his team can win with out him, like they did when Bledsoe came in for the AFC Championship victory against the Steelers (a game they never should have been in by the way, thanks to the "tuck rule". Three names are the reason for 3 NE Superbowls in my opinion; Belichick, Weiss, and Mangini.


2. I was responding to "The Big Bad Ass" and his post on media. I never said you were duped by the media. I also never said I don't think Aikman or Brady should be left out of the Hall of Fame. I'd vote for both those guys if I was one of the voters. You are losing me with the 2 picks in the Pit game. I don't remember 2 picks. I remember the 1 INT that was wrongfully overturned but not the other two. When were these picks thrown? For the record I'm certain Indy would have won if their O-Line outplayed Pit's D-line. I'm also cxertain they would have won if Nick Harper ran to the outside after the fumble, but all in all Pit outplayed Indy and deserved that win. Snd to answer your question, Pit scored 21 points (14 right off the bat) on the supposed #3 Defense in the league


3. Watch the game again. The O-Line was dismantled by Pittsburgh. 1500 yard runner James could barely get 50 yards in that game, and Manning had less than 3 seconds in the pocket. I know that for a fact because after the first two drives I brought out my stop watch to time each play and 3 seconds was on a good play. The O-line fell apart and the DBs were fooled one too many times on up the middle long passes that gave Pit their first two TDs. According to every sourrce I check (because I was trying to find the two picks you said Manning threw) Manning threw for nearly 300 yards with a TD and no picks that I can see recorded anywhere. I do see that he got sacked 5 times in that game, which is odd since his O-Line was "great all year".


             

["THE" MoSav]

1. Montana did throw picks in big games. Quite a few of them. But the team still won. On road to his first Superbowl he threw 1 against the Giants and an INT TD return by SF defensive back Ronnie Lott helped give them the win. Lott had an earlier INT that led to a TD drive as well. Montana then threw 3 picks against Dallas in the next game, but SF won anyway thanks to a key sack and fumble near the end of the game kept Dallas from getting to kick a winning FG (as well as a great tackle before that prevented a Cowboys game winning TD). On route to his next Superbowl Montana threw three picks against the Giants and 2 gainst the Bears. Luckily the teams were held to 10 and 0 points respectively. (Also  in the Superbowl that year the 9ers held the Miami powerhouse offense that averaged 32 points a game and never scored less than 21 points in any game of the season to a season low 16 points). Montana then threw some INTs in the next three years during the games they were eliminated in, and didn't go INT free until his '89 run. This was in his 11th year. (Manning's still in his 9th year).

Also, there's no crime in wanting Brady. Go ahead and take him. His team can win with him. I just think that, like I said about McNabb for years, his team can win with out him, like they did when Bledsoe came in for the AFC Championship victory against the Steelers (a game they never should have been in by the way, thanks to the "tuck rule". Three names are the reason for 3 NE Superbowls in my opinion; Belichick, Weiss, and Mangini.


2. I was responding to "The Big Bad Ass" and his post on media. I never said you were duped by the media. I also never said I don't think Aikman or Brady should be left out of the Hall of Fame. I'd vote for both those guys if I was one of the voters. You are losing me with the 2 picks in the Pit game. I don't remember 2 picks. I remember the 1 INT that was wrongfully overturned but not the other two. When were these picks thrown? For the record I'm certain Indy would have won if their O-Line outplayed Pit's D-line. I'm also cxertain they would have won if Nick Harper ran to the outside after the fumble, but all in all Pit outplayed Indy and deserved that win. Snd to answer your question, Pit scored 21 points (14 right off the bat) on the supposed #3 Defense in the league
3. Watch the game again. The O-Line was dismantled by Pittsburgh. 1500 yard runner James could barely get 50 yards in that game, and Manning had less than 3 seconds in the pocket. I know that for a fact because after the first two drives I brought out my stop watch to time each play and 3 seconds was on a good play. The O-line fell apart and the DBs were fooled one too many times on up the middle long passes that gave Pit their first two TDs. According to every sourrce I check (because I was trying to find the two picks you said Manning threw) Manning threw for nearly 300 yards with a TD and no picks that I can see recorded anywhere. I do see that he got sacked 5 times in that game, which is odd since his O-Line was "great all year".


             

+1

Only giving up 21 pts for the amount of time they were on the field was impressive...

And not giving Brady any credit is obsurd...

["THE" MoSav]

And of course the Media downplays the people DONT win, like they should. When you are an NFL qb and you dont win, youre gonna get criticized. No team is perfect and there are always gonna be obstacles, but Peyton has had as good of talent as anyone, and still hasnt got it done..

[Shallow]

I'll take it by your lack of response that the two picks you mentioned didn't exist. Peyton had no time in the pocket which was shown by the 5 sacks. WRs had no time to run routes, yet two great passes and a 2 point conversion by Manning still put them with in 3 points. And Indy would have won by 4 points if Nick Harper ran to the outside.

So 21 points is impressive for a defense, particularly when you take in the fact that the first 14 came the firt 2 or 3 drives? Then Pit sat on the lead and played conservatively while Indy had to take chances to catch up. It wasn't just the 2 TDs they let up, it was the lzy way they defend the up the middle pass. It was done time and again and they didn't do anything to stop it. Pit played the exact same game SD did against Indy and Indy couldn't learn from those mistakes. Manning isn't Superman. 23 comps for 290 yards and no INTs despite being rushed each play and sacked 5 times is as good a performance as any of the greats put up in big games. Much better than a 3 INT game by Montana.

Could you explain to me what you think Brady would have done in that game to make Indy win? He's great at buying time by stepping up into the pocket. Not so much when he has to run around it. There was no pocket to step up into because Pit walked right through the line. The only QB I could see making Pit's D-line look silly and still hit WRs on target is Doug Flutie. And I'll admit right now that the natural athletic talent he had cannot be matched by Manning. I just don't see how Brady would have made plays happen in that game with that team.

And if you really think you can compare Indy's defense last year to any of the Superbowl winning Pats or 9ers defenses then I just don't know what to say to you. 9 of their 16 games were against teams who were 6-10 or lower by the end of the year with 7 of those 9 having offenses not even in the top 20. Of the teams that were winning teams the indy D they averaged about 23 points against per game. Just about tied with the ranked 21 defense of the Detroit Lions. The D was ranked number 2 with points against with 16 per game, and if they could match that against Pit then Indy would have won, but everyone knew after the Cinci game that the D wasn't all is was cracked up to be, and after the SD game that it was not all that great. And that's just points. Really take a look at those teams that Brady, Favre, Aikman, and Montana were on you'll see teams much greater than the Colts.

Lastly, I said I'd vote Brady into the HoF. How is that not giving him any credit?

["THE" MoSav]

I'll take it by your lack of response that the two picks you mentioned didn't exist. Peyton had no time in the pocket which was shown by the 5 sacks. WRs had no time to run routes, yet two great passes and a 2 point conversion by Manning still put them with in 3 points. And Indy would have won by 4 points if Nick Harper ran to the outside.

So 21 points is impressive for a defense, particularly when you take in the fact that the first 14 came the firt 2 or 3 drives? Then Pit sat on the lead and played conservatively while Indy had to take chances to catch up. It wasn't just the 2 TDs they let up, it was the lzy way they defend the up the middle pass. It was done time and again and they didn't do anything to stop it. Pit played the exact same game SD did against Indy and Indy couldn't learn from those mistakes. Manning isn't Superman. 23 comps for 290 yards and no INTs despite being rushed each play and sacked 5 times is as good a performance as any of the greats put up in big games. Much better than a 3 INT game by Montana.

Could you explain to me what you think Brady would have done in that game to make Indy win? He's great at buying time by stepping up into the pocket. Not so much when he has to run around it. There was no pocket to step up into because Pit walked right through the line. The only QB I could see making Pit's D-line look silly and still hit WRs on target is Doug Flutie. And I'll admit right now that the natural athletic talent he had cannot be matched by Manning. I just don't see how Brady would have made plays happen in that game with that team.

And if you really think you can compare Indy's defense last year to any of the Superbowl winning Pats or 9ers defenses then I just don't know what to say to you. 9 of their 16 games were against teams who were 6-10 or lower by the end of the year with 7 of those 9 having offenses not even in the top 20. Of the teams that were winning teams the indy D they averaged about 23 points against per game. Just about tied with the ranked 21 defense of the Detroit Lions. The D was ranked number 2 with points against with 16 per game, and if they could match that against Pit then Indy would have won, but everyone knew after the Cinci game that the D wasn't all is was cracked up to be, and after the SD game that it was not all that great. And that's just points. Really take a look at those teams that Brady, Favre, Aikman, and Montana were on you'll see teams much greater than the Colts.

Lastly, I said I'd vote Brady into the HoF. How is that not giving him any credit?

LOL!!!! Yeah he did! Watch the game!! I dont need to write an Essay for every response doggy. Anybody that knows me knows i know my shit..I write long comments when needed. We are going into circles with our arguments...

And about not giving brady credit you said 3 guys were the reason for the title

MANGINI, WEIS, AND BELLICHECK

NOT BRADY...thats how you gave him no credit. Ive agreed with alot of what you said. But this Peyton argument aint ever gonna end. So im not trying to keep arguing.

["THE" MoSav]

I'll take it by your lack of response that the two picks you mentioned didn't exist. Peyton had no time in the pocket which was shown by the 5 sacks. WRs had no time to run routes, yet two great passes and a 2 point conversion by Manning still put them with in 3 points. And Indy would have won by 4 points if Nick Harper ran to the outside.

So 21 points is impressive for a defense, particularly when you take in the fact that the first 14 came the firt 2 or 3 drives? Then Pit sat on the lead and played conservatively while Indy had to take chances to catch up. It wasn't just the 2 TDs they let up, it was the lzy way they defend the up the middle pass. It was done time and again and they didn't do anything to stop it. Pit played the exact same game SD did against Indy and Indy couldn't learn from those mistakes. Manning isn't Superman. 23 comps for 290 yards and no INTs despite being rushed each play and sacked 5 times is as good a performance as any of the greats put up in big games. Much better than a 3 INT game by Montana.

Could you explain to me what you think Brady would have done in that game to make Indy win? He's great at buying time by stepping up into the pocket. Not so much when he has to run around it. There was no pocket to step up into because Pit walked right through the line. The only QB I could see making Pit's D-line look silly and still hit WRs on target is Doug Flutie. And I'll admit right now that the natural athletic talent he had cannot be matched by Manning. I just don't see how Brady would have made plays happen in that game with that team.

And if you really think you can compare Indy's defense last year to any of the Superbowl winning Pats or 9ers defenses then I just don't know what to say to you. 9 of their 16 games were against teams who were 6-10 or lower by the end of the year with 7 of those 9 having offenses not even in the top 20. Of the teams that were winning teams the indy D they averaged about 23 points against per game. Just about tied with the ranked 21 defense of the Detroit Lions. The D was ranked number 2 with points against with 16 per game, and if they could match that against Pit then Indy would have won, but everyone knew after the Cinci game that the D wasn't all is was cracked up to be, and after the SD game that it was not all that great. And that's just points. Really take a look at those teams that Brady, Favre, Aikman, and Montana were on you'll see teams much greater than the Colts.

Lastly, I said I'd vote Brady into the HoF. How is that not giving him any credit?

of course not but u cant compare the Pats OFFENSE to the Colts either, so it goes both ways...

[Shallow]

Could you atleast show me some stats that say he threw two INTs? Both Fox Sports ( http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/69814 ) and Pro-Football reference ( http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/MannPe00.htm ) show know INTs thrown by Manning against the Steelers. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying both my memory and htese websites are in agreement. Could you show me a site or sourxe that shows the INTS. You don't need to write essays, but I asked a question and you didn't answer so I figured you may not have had one.

I think the Pats offense can easily be compared to the Colts. NE would get as much yards rushing among there rotating backs, and in 2004 Dillon had more yards than James. I don't need stats to show that the NE O-Line is far better than Indy's. BRady may not put uup the same numbers as Manning but the passing yards are still very high.

I didn't mention Brady because I didn't mention any player. If I were to mention players I'd put guys like Harrison, Seymour and Izzo above Brady. Like I showed, NE could win an AFC conference game with out Brady.

["THE" MoSav]

+1 Well end it wit that!
I dont need to get in the last word, im glad i have someone to talk football with on here besides jacob or sparegizzl and Jat..