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Phil said Kobe is a better player with the ball than Michael
Now_Im_Not_Banned:
--- Quote from: Antonio on January 21, 2007, 11:56:46 AM ---Anyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! :o). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.
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Antonio, I'm under the impression that you've heard more about Jordan than you've actually seen him play. Dude is considered the GOAT right now, no question about it (though I still say Magic was a better overall player, but that's a whole nother story). But you can't forget that the NBA treated Jordan back then like they're doing Wade now, it was almost like looking at him the wrong way was a foul, pretty much the opposite of the current Kobe treatment. Jordan also wasn't exactly contending for championships in the beginning of his career, so if all you got is stats (sort of like a LeBron gets the stats nowadays) and word of mouth up in Italy then you wont see the whole picture...people talk about Jordan like he was a God, like he couldn't miss a shot and was the flawless player, but anyone who's actually watched him play in his days know that isn't exactly the whole truth...Yes, the GOAT right now, but Kobe was a champion when Jordan was still being regarded as a selfish player and awful teammate...Stats don't tell you everything, if that were the case, then even LeBron>Kobe, which we all know is not true...Why do you think Jordan had better stats in the first half of his career, but was easily considered the better player in the second half of his career when his stats went down. It's kinda like Kobe now compared to last year. Kobe is maturing, at an even younger age than Jordan did...That's why I'm saying, anyone who says Kobe doesn't have the chance to surpass Jordan is straight up hating, considering Kobe is just entering his prime years. Think of how lucky we are to have 10 more years of this guy on our team, and he's just now getting to his best. It's actually scary! So just remember, I'm not saying Jordan isn't the GOAT right now, but I am saying that there is a chance he will not always be the GOAT, not in everyones eyes at least...PeACe
GangstaBoogy:
--- Quote from: t.c.o.p. on January 21, 2007, 01:30:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: PLANT on January 21, 2007, 12:05:25 PM ---
--- Quote from: Antonio on January 21, 2007, 11:56:46 AM ---Anyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! :o). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.
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great points, and good research
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god damn...way to shut this argument down...just proving more that there will never be another mj
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Yeah it's just too bad he waisted all those valid points on a dickhead who thinks he knows everything.
Now_Im_Not_Banned:
--- Quote from: GangstaBoogy on January 21, 2007, 04:07:46 PM ---
--- Quote from: t.c.o.p. on January 21, 2007, 01:30:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: PLANT on January 21, 2007, 12:05:25 PM ---
--- Quote from: Antonio on January 21, 2007, 11:56:46 AM ---Anyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! :o). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.
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great points, and good research
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god damn...way to shut this argument down...just proving more that there will never be another mj
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Yeah it's just too bad he waisted all those valid points on a dickhead who thinks he knows everything.
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:'( :'( :'(
Just Another Sunny day in California:
i believe we need to see if Kobe even wins a championship let alone win 3 or 4 more with a couple of MVPs to even see him come close to Jordan. Jordan is the GOAT hands down, kobe has a chance but not big of a chance that you think Nik.
Antonio_:
--- Quote from: Now_I_Know on January 21, 2007, 03:54:59 PM ---Antonio, I'm under the impression that you've heard more about Jordan than you've actually seen him play. Dude is considered the GOAT right now, no question about it (though I still say Magic was a better overall player, but that's a whole nother story). But you can't forget that the NBA treated Jordan back then like they're doing Wade now, it was almost like looking at him the wrong way was a foul, pretty much the opposite of the current Kobe treatment.
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C'mon, let's be real! Jordan wasn't treathed any better than Magic, Bird, Drexler, Kareem, Robinson, ecc.. The NBA has always protected his superstars. It's just Kobe who gets no love from the refs after that damn rape case! Duncan, James, Wade, Nash.. they are all "protected" by the refs too. Kobe is just the only one who gets no calls. You got a point here. But still.. it's not enought, man, to underrated what Jordan did as a player even in his early days. Just remember the Bulls were a shitty team like the Cavs before LeBron. The only difference is that Jordan led them to the Play Offs since his first year in the league, never missing them. He was no joke. And talking about Jordan having no love, he had "problems" too. I got the tape of his first All-Star Game (obviously he was a starter, as a rookie. LOL), and Isiah Thomas and his Eastern Conference teammates litterally refused to pass him the ball because they thought fans didn't have to give a rookie like him such a privilege. Plus in his first 2-3 seasons, while the fans loved him, NBA players hated on him and thought he was just.. you know.. overhyped by the media. Something we say now about LeBron James. Only difference is that Jordan took only 4 seasons to win the MVP award (and he got robbed in his 3rd), a well deserved uncontested one, to shut the haters down. No fucking joke. OK, he wasn't hated by the refs like Kobe is now, but c'mon..
--- Quote ---Jordan also wasn't exactly contending for championships in the beginning of his career, so if all you got is stats (sort of like a LeBron gets the stats nowadays) and word of mouth up in Italy then you wont see the whole picture...
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Like i said he was no LeBron for the simple fact that he started his career by carring the (shitty) Bulls to the Play Offs from his rookie year. Ok, the Bulls always got eliminated by the Celtics (we're talking about arguably the best Celtics ever), but still he made that infamous 63-points performance against Bird & co., in his second year. If it wasn't for the Celtics.... Anyway he led the Bulls to the Eastern Conference Finals in his 5th year (and in his 6th. And he won the NBA title in his 7th, 8th, 9th..). No joke.
--- Quote ---people talk about Jordan like he was a God, like he couldn't miss a shot and was the flawless player, but anyone who's actually watched him play in his days know that isn't exactly the whole truth...Yes, the GOAT right now, but Kobe was a champion when Jordan was still being regarded as a selfish player and awful teammate...Stats don't tell you everything, if that were the case, then even LeBron>Kobe, which we all know is not true...Why do you think Jordan had better stats in the first half of his career, but was easily considered the better player in the second half of his career when his stats went down. It's kinda like Kobe now compared to last year. Kobe is maturing, at an even younger age than Jordan did...
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Kobe is about 28. By that time, Jordan already had an NBA title won and was running for his 2nd and 3rd, man. Only difference is that the Bulls were built around him, and not around "Shaq". Don't get me wrong here, i'm not the type of guy who will say "Shaq won it", or "Kobe won it because of Shaq". Fuck that. Kobe had a fundamental role in the 3peat, sometimes even stronger than Shaq's one. But that one was Shaq's team. This one is Kobe's team. It's different. Even harder if you ask me (i mean it's easier to win a title with a dominant C than with a dominant SG). Kobe still gotta prove he can win a title by himself (the team built around him). Probably he will. Maybe he won't. We don't know. He has all the tools to do it tho. And i'm optimistic he will, maybe even this year. But you can't compare a done deal with a promise, you know what i mean?
--- Quote ---That's why I'm saying, anyone who says Kobe doesn't have the chance to surpass Jordan is straight up hating, considering Kobe is just entering his prime years. Think of how lucky we are to have 10 more years of this guy on our team, and he's just now getting to his best. It's actually scary! So just remember, I'm not saying Jordan isn't the GOAT right now, but I am saying that there is a chance he will not always be the GOAT, not in everyones eyes at least...PeACe
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Man but i ain't arguing about that. Kobe is a legend already at 28, and now it's nothing but money time. Time to work on his legacy and to win a couple of titles by himself.
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