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NIK i'm not a big fan of him (i used to love Magic and hate on this dude), but Michael Jordan was a monster, the best SG i've ever seen playing basketball. Kobe is not at the same level. Yes he will be remembered as a legend too, but man right now i think he hasn't reached Jordan's status yet. He's still 28, he can still do great things (like winning other 2-3 titles) and he's still in a process where he's changing his game (now he's playing like a real leader, and the Lakers are looking good) for good. But c'mon, even if i didn't like him (i mean being a Laker fan you couldn't love him), Jordan > Bryant. No fucking discussion.
Anyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! ). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.
Quote from: Antonio on January 21, 2007, 11:56:46 AMAnyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! ). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.great points, and good research
lmao@Nik using Kobe coming straight out of HS as an excuse. Look at what James did in his rookie year, he shut the critics up, he played like a 5 year vet but Kobe gets special treatment because he played behind Eddie Jones lol. anyone remember this:Playoff Series against Utah, Rookie Bryant air-balled two 3-point shots in overtime - one with 35 seconds left, one with four remaining - that enabled Utah to escape with a 98-93 overtime victory and win the Western Conference semifinal four games to one. Playoff seires against Celtics, 2nd year vet Michael Jordan, who only played in 18 games because of a broken leg, erases Elgin Baylor's NBA playoff record of 61 points by scoring 63 on Larry Bird. after the game Bird responded to Jordan's performance by saying "i think it was God disguised as Michael Jordan." Doesn't get any better than that I know Kobe was a Rookie and is now a completely different player but IMO you don't BECOME THE GOAT (kobe) You're BORN THE GOAT (JORDAN)
Quote from: Antonio on January 21, 2007, 01:18:39 AMNIK i'm not a big fan of him (i used to love Magic and hate on this dude), but Michael Jordan was a monster, the best SG i've ever seen playing basketball. Kobe is not at the same level. Yes he will be remembered as a legend too, but man right now i think he hasn't reached Jordan's status yet. He's still 28, he can still do great things (like winning other 2-3 titles) and he's still in a process where he's changing his game (now he's playing like a real leader, and the Lakers are looking good) for good. But c'mon, even if i didn't like him (i mean being a Laker fan you couldn't love him), Jordan > Bryant. No fucking discussion.+1. Exactly what I'm saying. Kobe still has many years in front of him, who knows what may happen. Maybe he'll get 5 more rings, 5 MVPs, etc. But at the same time, maybe not. Either way, it's completely ridiculous to think that all Kobe has to do now is master moving w/o the ball to be the undisputed GOAT right now. That really is by far, the most retarded thing I've ever read on this board. I've realized that I had the wrong view of 99% of "Laker Fans" in this section. NEARLY every one is very logical and rational. They are still VERY passionate about their favorite team, but they are still knowledgable and not dickriders. I actually enjoy reading their insight into their team.
What the fuck? You cant be serious? This is pure dickriding at its finest. This is the reason why I photoshoped another pic of you. Check it out.
Quote from: PLANT on January 21, 2007, 12:05:25 PMQuote from: Antonio on January 21, 2007, 11:56:46 AMAnyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! ). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.great points, and good researchgod damn...way to shut this argument down...just proving more that there will never be another mj
Quote from: t.c.o.p. on January 21, 2007, 01:30:50 PMQuote from: PLANT on January 21, 2007, 12:05:25 PMQuote from: Antonio on January 21, 2007, 11:56:46 AMAnyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! ). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.great points, and good researchgod damn...way to shut this argument down...just proving more that there will never be another mjYeah it's just too bad he waisted all those valid points on a dickhead who thinks he knows everything.
Antonio, I'm under the impression that you've heard more about Jordan than you've actually seen him play. Dude is considered the GOAT right now, no question about it (though I still say Magic was a better overall player, but that's a whole nother story). But you can't forget that the NBA treated Jordan back then like they're doing Wade now, it was almost like looking at him the wrong way was a foul, pretty much the opposite of the current Kobe treatment.
Jordan also wasn't exactly contending for championships in the beginning of his career, so if all you got is stats (sort of like a LeBron gets the stats nowadays) and word of mouth up in Italy then you wont see the whole picture...
people talk about Jordan like he was a God, like he couldn't miss a shot and was the flawless player, but anyone who's actually watched him play in his days know that isn't exactly the whole truth...Yes, the GOAT right now, but Kobe was a champion when Jordan was still being regarded as a selfish player and awful teammate...Stats don't tell you everything, if that were the case, then even LeBron>Kobe, which we all know is not true...Why do you think Jordan had better stats in the first half of his career, but was easily considered the better player in the second half of his career when his stats went down. It's kinda like Kobe now compared to last year. Kobe is maturing, at an even younger age than Jordan did...
That's why I'm saying, anyone who says Kobe doesn't have the chance to surpass Jordan is straight up hating, considering Kobe is just entering his prime years. Think of how lucky we are to have 10 more years of this guy on our team, and he's just now getting to his best. It's actually scary! So just remember, I'm not saying Jordan isn't the GOAT right now, but I am saying that there is a chance he will not always be the GOAT, not in everyones eyes at least...PeACe