Something rappers need to realize

[We Fly High]

Crooked I just doesnt have the persona or charisma to blow up. point blank. Its been damn 10 years, and still no album. He's only getting older and no one wants to hear old ass rappers, believe me. Dont get it twisted, hes got talent, but we all know that doesnt equate to sales.

Bad Azz blackballed himself in the industry with that name.. he might have gotten somewhere a little further with his dpg affiliations, but his name killed his career straight up. no one named Bad Azz will ever blow up.

but i think what AC is saying is right. some people just arent cut for the mainstream, and they need to acknowledge that.

[d-nice]

I see so many artists taking that Koch deal and selling 100-200k for a couple of albums and a major ends up picking up the rapper and in some cases the label (BG comes to mind). I don't know why more artists do not go that route and wait for a lebel situation instead of going on a major and floppin. The room for error on a major is low and it is alot harder to get on another major after floppin on your 1st. Bad Azz's situation I think he was tired of reporting to a boss and he wanted his own situation. So he went the indie route and his album was not promoted, something that falls more on the artist to do. I think Snoop was trying to help Bad get over the top with Personal Business and Wrong Idea did good for a single, but they did not follow it up with anything else.

[jeromechickenbone]

Spice is a tool. (karma's a bitch huh)

Very good points Grundy.  I brought up similar points in the AZ discussion in outound.  He's doing the type of music that's true to him, not jumping on every fad that comes out to try and stay relevant.  He may only push 50k units for an album, but almost all promotion is done on the net which next to free, he shoots his own videos and ups them on Youtube.  He's independant so he's not recouping money to some label.  So if he sells 50k x $12 per cd, that's $600,000.  So I mean if he nets 1/3 of those sales after expenses and producer fees, he's still sittin on $200,000.  That's living pretty damn good and he can do HIS music.

And I always know that AZ is gonna keep it real, and I've bought all his shit cuz I know I'm not gonna be getting a wack album.  A lot of these rappers today are only as hot as their flavor of the week producers they use. 

But keep in mind, a lot of these rappers that are in the mainstream are almost all solely in it for the: fame, notoriety, and money.  They know that they can do certain things and get paid, just like any other hustle.  It's the same as selling candy to other kids on the playground when they were little, and pushin yay on the streets.  They don't give a flying fuck about the music itself, just doing another hustle to makes some ends.  And I respect anybody trying to get theirs, but PLEASE don't call yourself a musicion because you're not.

[d-nice]

Spice is a tool. (karma's a bitch huh)

Very good points Grundy.  I brought up similar points in the AZ discussion in outound.  He's doing the type of music that's true to him, not jumping on every fad that comes out to try and stay relevant.  He may only push 50k units for an album, but almost all promotion is done on the net which next to free, he shoots his own videos and ups them on Youtube.  He's independant so he's not recouping money to some label.  So if he sells 50k x $12 per cd, that's $600,000.  So I mean if he nets 1/3 of those sales after expenses and producer fees, he's still sittin on $200,000.  That's living pretty damn good and he can do HIS music.

And I always know that AZ is gonna keep it real, and I've bought all his shit cuz I know I'm not gonna be getting a wack album.  A lot of these rappers today are only as hot as their flavor of the week producers they use. 

But keep in mind, a lot of these rappers that are in the mainstream are almost all solely in it for the: fame, notoriety, and money.  They know that they can do certain things and get paid, just like any other hustle.  It's the same as selling candy to other kids on the playground when they were little, and pushin yay on the streets.  They don't give a flying fuck about the music itself, just doing another hustle to makes some ends.  And I respect anybody trying to get theirs, but PLEASE don't call yourself a musicion because you're not.

REAL THREAD AND REAL TALK! +1

[acgrundy]

What Bad Azz album are you actually talking about?
It could be me but wasn't 'Executive Decisions..' his last album? Snoop wasn't even involved on that one, so you obviously can't blame him for that failure. I guess you are talking about 'Personal Business'? Bad Azz sold his soul there? Au contraire, mon frere. It's a great album and it really doesn't have a mainstream guestlist, does it?

I'm talking about Executive Decisions.  Personal business is a dope album.  Bad azz is a dope rapper.  I was really looking forward to executive Decisions, but then was highly dissapointed.  The album is garbage.  I never said bad azz sold his soul.  He catered Executive Decisions to try and reach a broader audience.


Here is a point some of you are not getting.  I don't think any artist should sell themselves short.  If you really believe you got the talent to be a platinum rapper, then by all means go for it.  But you need a lot more than just your talent.  You need the financing, the big name producers, the promotion, the big label.

Here is my point w/ Bad Azz and Executive Decisions.  He catered the sound of that album to reach a wider audience, maybe a more pop/hiphop audience.  However he didn't have any big name producer, who knows what label he was on, and he pretty much had no promotion at all.  Hell I have never even seen the album in stores.  How the hell is he suppossed to reach a wide audience w/o any of this?  Nobody, other than his hardcore dpg fanbase, really knows who he is,still after dropping this album.  So take me, part of his small hardcore dpg fanbase.  I was pretty much really disapointed w/ the album, so now, I could care less about his next album.  Meanwhile, I highly doubt he gained any of the fans that buy Jay Z, or Lil' Jon, or Nas or what have you.  If Bad Azz couldn't multiply his fanbase w/ Personal Business and the heavy help of snoop, well face the facts, he is not meant to be a superstar platinum rapper.  Not everyone in the NBA has the success of Micheal Jordan, Kobe Bryant, or Shaq.  Thats just how it is.  Ain't nothing wrong with being a Rick Fox, or a Scottie Pippen. 

Thanks for clarifying that, but still, why do you mention Bad Azz having 'Snoop's heavy help'? At the time, he didn't. Snoop had basically left Bad Azz without mainstream exposure since 2001. He hasn't been on a Snoop-album after that, and Snoop himself hasn't been on an album by Bad Azz since 'Personal Business'. I know we have the Welcome to the Chuuch-mixtapes but really, how much exposure did those give to the people featuring on them?
Bad Azz was without Snoop's help then.

Of course, keep in mind that this is a technicality. I do not disagree with your message itself.

I'm talking about snoops help on personal business, that is it.  personal business is a dope album.  Executive decisions sucked.

[acgrundy]

Spice is a tool. (karma's a bitch huh)

Very good points Grundy.  I brought up similar points in the AZ discussion in outound.  He's doing the type of music that's true to him, not jumping on every fad that comes out to try and stay relevant.  He may only push 50k units for an album, but almost all promotion is done on the net which next to free, he shoots his own videos and ups them on Youtube.  He's independant so he's not recouping money to some label.  So if he sells 50k x $12 per cd, that's $600,000.  So I mean if he nets 1/3 of those sales after expenses and producer fees, he's still sittin on $200,000.  That's living pretty damn good and he can do HIS music.

And I always know that AZ is gonna keep it real, and I've bought all his shit cuz I know I'm not gonna be getting a wack album.  A lot of these rappers today are only as hot as their flavor of the week producers they use. 

But keep in mind, a lot of these rappers that are in the mainstream are almost all solely in it for the: fame, notoriety, and money.  They know that they can do certain things and get paid, just like any other hustle.  It's the same as selling candy to other kids on the playground when they were little, and pushin yay on the streets.  They don't give a flying fuck about the music itself, just doing another hustle to makes some ends.  And I respect anybody trying to get theirs, but PLEASE don't call yourself a musicion because you're not.

Well, but see the thing is westcoast rappers are not in the mainstream.  Snoop, game, dre, 40, and cube are pretty much the only westcoast rappers in the mainstream.  What I'm sayin is these rappers tryna get to the mainstream, need to realize that they are better off pleasing what audience they already have.  Xzibit is another great example.  His last album was wack as fuck.  He should not have tried making an album that would appeal to a crowd outside his fanbase.  Yet he did, w/ no promotion.  Album failed sales wise, and it also failed w/ his real fans that been buying his albums for years now.

I understand what you are saying about them not caring about the music and just tryna hustle.  but the music hustle ain't working imo.  personally I think many of these rappers who are switching up their records to gain a bigger fanbase are usually losing their fanbase.  I can definately say that is the case w/ me.  I think if they specifically made their record for their hardcore fanbase then they would actually be more successful, rather than try to cater to a crowd that really isn't their fanbase.

[jeromechickenbone]

Spice is a tool. (karma's a bitch huh)

Very good points Grundy.  I brought up similar points in the AZ discussion in outound.  He's doing the type of music that's true to him, not jumping on every fad that comes out to try and stay relevant.  He may only push 50k units for an album, but almost all promotion is done on the net which next to free, he shoots his own videos and ups them on Youtube.  He's independant so he's not recouping money to some label.  So if he sells 50k x $12 per cd, that's $600,000.  So I mean if he nets 1/3 of those sales after expenses and producer fees, he's still sittin on $200,000.  That's living pretty damn good and he can do HIS music.

And I always know that AZ is gonna keep it real, and I've bought all his shit cuz I know I'm not gonna be getting a wack album.  A lot of these rappers today are only as hot as their flavor of the week producers they use. 

But keep in mind, a lot of these rappers that are in the mainstream are almost all solely in it for the: fame, notoriety, and money.  They know that they can do certain things and get paid, just like any other hustle.  It's the same as selling candy to other kids on the playground when they were little, and pushin yay on the streets.  They don't give a flying fuck about the music itself, just doing another hustle to makes some ends.  And I respect anybody trying to get theirs, but PLEASE don't call yourself a musicion because you're not.

Well, but see the thing is westcoast rappers are not in the mainstream.  Snoop, game, dre, 40, and cube are pretty much the only westcoast rappers in the mainstream.  What I'm sayin is these rappers tryna get to the mainstream, need to realize that they are better off pleasing what audience they already have.  Xzibit is another great example.  His last album was wack as fuck.  He should not have tried making an album that would appeal to a crowd outside his fanbase.  Yet he did, w/ no promotion.  Album failed sales wise, and it also failed w/ his real fans that been buying his albums for years now.

I understand what you are saying about them not caring about the music and just tryna hustle.  but the music hustle ain't working imo.  personally I think many of these rappers who are switching up their records to gain a bigger fanbase are usually losing their fanbase.  I can definately say that is the case w/ me.  I think if they specifically made their record for their hardcore fanbase then they would actually be more successful, rather than try to cater to a crowd that really isn't their fanbase.

Yeah I got you.  That's why I brought up AZ because he's catering to his true fanbase.  I'd be willing to bet that none of his OG fans have disliked any of his CD's.  He's never been accused of selling out.  And because of that, those fans will likely continue to support him.  They know he probably wants mainstream success, but he's not about to abandon his existing fanbase to try to get that teeny bop market.

I heard that "Concentrate" joint by X and is was fucking god awful.  So many people tried to duplicate that simplistic sound that the Neptunes did on "Drop It Like It's Hot".  When I heard that, I knew right then I wasn't buying it cuz he was just trying to recreate that pop success that that song had.  He ended up alienating me, a fan who had bought every one of his prior albums for some first week sales.  Usually I'd say it'll fuck him in the long run, but it fucked him pretty quick because the album didn't sell at all.  And considering his spot on MTV, he def had an inside track that most people don't have.

[Jakubs]

Just wanted to drop in here and say this thread has been a great read. Props for the intelligent discussion without bashing eachother.

[Tanjential]

Here is my point w/ Bad Azz and Executive Decisions.  He catered the sound of that album to reach a wider audience, maybe a more pop/hiphop audience.  However he didn't have any big name producer, who knows what label he was on, and he pretty much had no promotion at all.  Hell I have never even seen the album in stores.  How the hell is he suppossed to reach a wide audience w/o any of this?  Nobody, other than his hardcore dpg fanbase, really knows who he is,still after dropping this album.  So take me, part of his small hardcore dpg fanbase.  I was pretty much really disapointed w/ the album, so now, I could care less about his next album.  Meanwhile, I highly doubt he gained any of the fans that buy Jay Z, or Lil' Jon, or Nas or what have you.  If Bad Azz couldn't multiply his fanbase w/ Personal Business and the heavy help of snoop, well face the facts, he is not meant to be a superstar platinum rapper.  Not everyone in the NBA has the success of Micheal Jordan, Kobe Bryant, or Shaq.  Thats just how it is.  Ain't nothing wrong with being a Rick Fox, or a Scottie Pippen. -------------------TRUTH

-T