It's May 11, 2024, 04:59:15 AM
Rock has never been as focused as rap ever was, it's a more abstract form of music and more focused on the melody rather than the lyrics. don't talk shit, it's like when american people talk shit about soccer cuz they don't know shit about it
I definitely agree with you that music doesn't have to be relevant to the time for people to wanna buy it. I also agree with what you said about Rock not being as focused on lyrics (although I think the beats in hip-hop trump any of the background music in Rock).
btw, I think Rage Against the Machine sucks anyway. But that's nothing against them, I can't think of one rock album I've ever liked. There's been a song here and there, but even that is rare.
That's incorrect. The reason I put most my hip hop records away was because of how unfocused they were. They don't focus on lyrics, or subject matter, or poetry. They focus on ego. Hip Hop is, and always was, for the most part a bragging contest. Whether it was about the guns you have, gangster things you've done, the money you make, or rap skills you possess. When it's not bragging it's whining; about what is and isn't gangster, what is and isn't hip hop, what is and isn't fair. And worst of all it's done in such a childish manner. Nas's last record with regards to relevance in society was as terrible as all his others. He raps to the lowest common denominator. He leaves very little to the imagination. Everything is so literal. It's not art to be interpreted. It's second rate lessons to be learned, except the only thing I learned in the end was how much time I wasted listening to it all those years.
Rock music is still around?
And then you say this...Quote from: Shakoor Abd-Allah's Definition Of Hip-Hop on February 21, 2007, 03:58:57 PMbtw, I think Rage Against the Machine sucks anyway. But that's nothing against them, I can't think of one rock album I've ever liked. There's been a song here and there, but even that is rare....validating what I said all along. You dismiss them cause they're rock and more-or-less for that reason alone.You'd be easier to take seriously if it wasn't fucking obvious you're a self-loathing cracker who wishes to dissociate himself as much as possible from anything "white". You're pathetic, homie. You really are. And you wouldn't know real niggas if you talked to them.Oh, yeah, and LOL at you criticizing Chris Cornell as a "Satan worshipper". Aside from the fact that isn't true, you ignore some of the hip-hop with those kinds of values. There's a rapper who raps about eating babies (Brotha Lynch Hung) and even Three-6 Mafia in their early days had lots of occult/Satan references in their lyrics...but of course, you got nothing to say about that, right?Quote from: Shallow on February 21, 2007, 03:48:57 PMThat's incorrect. The reason I put most my hip hop records away was because of how unfocused they were. They don't focus on lyrics, or subject matter, or poetry. They focus on ego. Hip Hop is, and always was, for the most part a bragging contest. Whether it was about the guns you have, gangster things you've done, the money you make, or rap skills you possess. When it's not bragging it's whining; about what is and isn't gangster, what is and isn't hip hop, what is and isn't fair. And worst of all it's done in such a childish manner. Nas's last record with regards to relevance in society was as terrible as all his others. He raps to the lowest common denominator. He leaves very little to the imagination. Everything is so literal. It's not art to be interpreted. It's second rate lessons to be learned, except the only thing I learned in the end was how much time I wasted listening to it all those years.And you, of course, are just as simple-minded as Infinite. You also shouldn't be on here anymore if you have nothing useful to contribute about discussions to HIP-HOP.Rock not whiny? Not as ego-driven, sure, but whiny? Very much so.
It's not the crappy rappers I was bashing, but the best rappers. Even the top calibre MCs are plaged with ego driven gloat-fests and pretentious drivel. And it's not that it's some of their songs, it's most of their better songs. I don't find a ratio like that in the top tier rock band lyricists. Many are egotistical assholes in life but I'm not trying to judge the calibre of person. I'm trying to judge the calibre of art.
Quote from: Shallow on February 21, 2007, 08:17:13 PM It's not the crappy rappers I was bashing, but the best rappers. Even the top calibre MCs are plaged with ego driven gloat-fests and pretentious drivel. And it's not that it's some of their songs, it's most of their better songs. I don't find a ratio like that in the top tier rock band lyricists. Many are egotistical assholes in life but I'm not trying to judge the calibre of person. I'm trying to judge the calibre of art. Yeah, that's exactly the problem. In other words, you are no longer needed here. Subtract yourself out of the equation. And yeah, you're just as simple-minded as Infinite. You may not be as pathetic as him, but you're no less stupid. Your entire argument rests upon some moral bullshit that's utterly irrelevent to judging quality of art. Why does it matter if hip-hop is often ego-driven? It's about the skills they demonstrate on the mic. It's the simple. If you don't like that anymore fine, but now you need to stop posting on here and get lost.And there is a FAR higher ratio of whiny rock bands to whiny hip-hop bands. I may not listen to rock as much as hip-hop and soul, but it's extremely obvious to me...how much rock deals with teenage angst and whines about how things are fucked up? And really, what rock band has ever shown any more intelligent insight than something by say, PE? I'm not just talking about emo-rock, either. One of my favorite rock albums of all time, "Appetite for Destruction" by Guns N Roses, sure as hell doesn't contain anything that's some kinda rocket science. So shut the fuck up and cease to talk bullshit. And bitch be gone.
how do rock artists not focus on their lyrics as much as hip hop artists do?
Quote from: Suffice on February 21, 2007, 01:01:18 PMRock has never been as focused as rap ever was, it's a more abstract form of music and more focused on the melody rather than the lyrics. don't talk shit, it's like when american people talk shit about soccer cuz they don't know shit about itThat's incorrect. The reason I put most my hip hop records away was because of how unfocused they were. They don't focus on lyrics, or subject matter, or poetry. They focus on ego. Hip Hop is, and always was, for the most part a bragging contest. Whether it was about the guns you have, gangster things you've done, the money you make, or rap skills you possess. When it's not bragging it's whining; about what is and isn't gangster, what is and isn't hip hop, what is and isn't fair. And worst of all it's done in such a childish manner. Nas's last record with regards to relevance in society was as terrible as all his others. He raps to the lowest common denominator. He leaves very little to the imagination. Everything is so literal. It's not art to be interpreted. It's second rate lessons to be learned, except the only thing I learned in the end was how much time I wasted listening to it all those years.Some people need to be spoon fed lyrical content. They don't want to have to wonder about what the song is about. They want to know it right away because they can't be bothered with using their brain to figure it out. Sometimes it's a little more in your face in rock and sometimes it's very subtle. A song like "the River" can simply be a story of a young man being forced to marry his pregnant girlfriend and throw his youth away, but upon looking deeper it can just as much be about society turning their backs on the working class and the government doing little to make things right, thus leaving the common folk stranded in the ruts they were born in. It's about classism. And it doesn't need to come right out and say that in the lyrics like a Nas song would have. Nas couldn't even leave a song about a gun in the first person to the imagination. He actually had to come out and say "I'm a gun" in the song like we couldn't figure it out. That's what Nas thinks of his fans.Cornell and Audio Slave were pretty relevant lately. Their first album in 2002 was just certified triple platinum, and the one that followed went platinum. You want a poltical song by Cornell? Here it is;http://www.youtube.com/v/dQHwGBImd_INot my favourite lyrical song by them but certainly relevant to the times.Quote from: Shakoor Abd-Allah's Definition Of Hip-Hop on February 21, 2007, 01:27:45 PMI definitely agree with you that music doesn't have to be relevant to the time for people to wanna buy it. I also agree with what you said about Rock not being as focused on lyrics (although I think the beats in hip-hop trump any of the background music in Rock).Aren't they the same thing? The beats are more often than not just taken from old rock records. Read up a bit about the history of hip hop and you'll see something you already know but fail to admit; the orginal DJs had to spin rock records for the rappers because they were the only tracks with hard enough beats to rap over.
In my opinion, it is an extremely narcistic attitude and a very, very pretentious base for a statement to argue that something has greater calibre of art and is objectively of higher value when it comes to music. I, actually, feel like slapping such people. Art is the outcome of a creative process. There's no hierarchy of value implied in it. Music is as good as it is in reaching what it's supposed to be. Like, a song that is meant to be political, and fails miserably at it, sucks. A song that is supposed to make people laugh, but fails miserably at it, sucks. Yet, neither does a song have to make people laugh nor does it have to be political. Some people prefer funny songs, some political. That is completely subjective. Ultimately, you can not call a song that excels in featuring great battle rhymes worse than a song that excels in touching people on an emotional level - because both songs are good at what they are supposed to be good at.I also pity anyone who thinks he can be completely objective towards the whole wide spectre of music, let alone art.