GOAT thoughts

[Noname]

^^
I gotta disagree with you on this.

The thing what makes Maradona a GOAT is, he was ahead of his generation. You did name a lot of players that are really good and maybe even better then Maradona.
But Maradona made Argentina world champion. In a team that wouldn't been world champion without Maradona. Thats also the difference between Pele and Maradona. Brazil would've won the WC without Pele. Because they had a great team with fantastic players. Thats not the same thing with Maradona. His team wasn't that good that they would've won the WC without Maradona. Same thing can be said when he went to Napoli.

What youre saying about C Ronaldo is right. C Ronaldo knows a lot more and difficult tricks with the bal then Maradona. But if you saw Maradona play and you notice that he is one with the ball, and he could make that quality usefull on the footballfield. C Ronaldo is very different, because tricks is the way he plays. He even makes trick when it isnt nescecary.

And thats what makes a legend a legend. Maradona made the difference on his own.

[TheDeli]

IMO none of the players on that list are better than Diego Maradona between 1985 and 1990

Maradona had the ability to carry an ordinary Argentina team to the World Cup

He lifted not just a club in Napoli to the Seria A title but also the people

Maradona's balance when dribbling with a ball was the best that I have ever seen, he had such a low centre of gravity and the ability and speed that he could take people on and the vision he had was immense

You comment on the goal he scored when he beat a number of players I imagine that you are talking about England in Mexico 86, he did the same against Belgium (well he actually beat more players) and that is just one example

Yes technique improves and players get faster, but the equipment that players of today use is also a factor in this and the way that players look after themselves.  Surely a player that was out drinking, general misbehaving and using older equipment will look less impressive than a player of today, but would a player of today been able to handle playing back then?

Think of the protection that a number of players on your list gets compared to the protection that a player like Maradona or Best or Pele or Cruyff or Garrincha or Van Basten got would today's players take this punishment and get back up and go at a player again or would they hide behind the refs or injuries?

Yes some of the players on the list are very impressive and could be considered some of the best of their generations but to compare RVN, Pauleta, Klose, Drogba, Stankovic, Adriano, Juninho Pernambucano etc to a great like Maradona is unfair and not very accurate IMO

[Don Jacob]

well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.

ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument

i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal

ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around?? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.

and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.

because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...



with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.

lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.

many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level.  you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot.  nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.

wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above

i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills

actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen

and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand

go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then



   @ this fools basketball intellect

[Maestro Minded]

well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.

ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument

i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal

ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around?? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.

and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.

because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...



with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.

lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.

many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level.  you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot.  nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.

wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above

i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills

actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen

and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand

go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then



   @ this fools basketball intellect

i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff

let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever..  basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments

so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.

are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.


Players            Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1  Robert Parish (70's)      1611
2  Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's)    1560
3  John Stockton (80's)      1422
4  Karl Malone (80's)      1353
5  Moses Malone (70's)      1329
6  Buck Williams (80's)      1307
7  Elvin Hayes    (60's)      1303
8  John Havlicek (60's)      1270
9  Paul Silas (70's)      1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's)      1222
11 A.C. Green (80's)      1278


hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??


Players            Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy             88 (1968-69) 
Tom Henderson          87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore          86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard          86 (1975-76)

i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?

you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm

and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.

Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.




but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.

[Maestro Minded]

^^
I gotta disagree with you on this.

The thing what makes Maradona a GOAT is, he was ahead of his generation. You did name a lot of players that are really good and maybe even better then Maradona.
But Maradona made Argentina world champion. In a team that wouldn't been world champion without Maradona. Thats also the difference between Pele and Maradona. Brazil would've won the WC without Pele. Because they had a great team with fantastic players. Thats not the same thing with Maradona. His team wasn't that good that they would've won the WC without Maradona. Same thing can be said when he went to Napoli.

What youre saying about C Ronaldo is right. C Ronaldo knows a lot more and difficult tricks with the bal then Maradona. But if you saw Maradona play and you notice that he is one with the ball, and he could make that quality usefull on the footballfield. C Ronaldo is very different, because tricks is the way he plays. He even makes trick when it isnt nescecary.

And thats what makes a legend a legend. Maradona made the difference on his own.

c. ronaldo is way better than maradona ever was skillwise. and he's only 22. but i can agree that maradona has achieved way more and that ronaldo probably never will be able to do what maradona have done. maradona was, like you said, way ahead of his time. i agree. and because of him being way better than his opponents , he because a difference-maker. he could change the outcome of a match all by himself. sure. but that STILL doesn't make him better than the ones playing today skill wise. the difference now is that nowadays, its way harder to become ridiculously better than the opposition because of how things have evolved. for example center-backs are now playing COMPLETELY different compared to how they did 20 years ago. in a good team, the centerbacks know each other in and out, they play as one. not only that, nowadays the centerbacks have to be good with the head because of all the crosses the wingers plays. and since they're good with the head, they also becomes attacking thread during freekicks and corners.

give me the names of five amazing defensive midfielder between 1950-1980.  my guess is that you dont even know the name of one player, because it hardly existed. the attackers had basically only the backs to worry about. watch today’s football, for example man u - fullham from last week. while man u played 4-4-2, fullham played 8-1-1, and i'm not exaggerating

[Maestro Minded]

IMO none of the players on that list are better than Diego Maradona between 1985 and 1990

Maradona had the ability to carry an ordinary Argentina team to the World Cup

He lifted not just a club in Napoli to the Seria A title but also the people

Maradona's balance when dribbling with a ball was the best that I have ever seen, he had such a low centre of gravity and the ability and speed that he could take people on and the vision he had was immense

You comment on the goal he scored when he beat a number of players I imagine that you are talking about England in Mexico 86, he did the same against Belgium (well he actually beat more players) and that is just one example

Yes technique improves and players get faster, but the equipment that players of today use is also a factor in this and the way that players look after themselves.  Surely a player that was out drinking, general misbehaving and using older equipment will look less impressive than a player of today, but would a player of today been able to handle playing back then?

Think of the protection that a number of players on your list gets compared to the protection that a player like Maradona or Best or Pele or Cruyff or Garrincha or Van Basten got would today's players take this punishment and get back up and go at a player again or would they hide behind the refs or injuries?

Yes some of the players on the list are very impressive and could be considered some of the best of their generations but to compare RVN, Pauleta, Klose, Drogba, Stankovic, Adriano, Juninho Pernambucano etc to a great like Maradona is unfair and not very accurate IMO

Maradonas impressive "low center of gravity" might have something to do with him being 166cm.. And he had great pace, sure, but generally it’s easier for small people to sprint.

You’re right; a player today might now have made it back then, but you twisting the question.  I said that the players of back then were not better than the players of today.  But off course, given the same opportunity, for example, if Maradona started to play football today, he would become way better than he were back then.  But still, the fact is that because of the opportunities he have been given develops into a way better player than a player back then. Honestly, I don’t see how people can question this.

So I stand by my words.  I believe that the names that I wrote are playing better skillwise than Maradona did back then, though it does not mean that they’re opposing as great threat to the opposition as Maradona did, or that they can change the outcome of a game as quick and impulsively as  Maradona could. 
I
n summary, im saying that if Maradona were frozen during his peak and defrosted today and thrown into a football pitch, all the players I wrote would be better than him.

[J @ M @ L]

So I stand by my words.  I believe that the names that I wrote are playing better skillwise than Maradona did back then, though it does not mean that they’re opposing as great threat to the opposition as Maradona did, or that they can change the outcome of a game as quick and impulsively as  Maradona could. 
In summary, im saying that if Maradona were frozen during his peak and defrosted today and thrown into a football pitch, all the players I wrote would be better than him.

You've got to be fucking kidding, or fucking stupid, to really "think" this. That goes for that bullshit list as well. There's a few players on there for whom such an argument could be made, but most of them are nowhere near the level Maradona was playing at. What's next? Wade > Jordan? Yao Ming > Kareem?

[7even]

I agree to the extend that really old players should not be taken seriously. It might be condescending and disrespectful and I don't care. But you shouldn't clown players from the 80's and 90's that hard. Although I do agree that the likes of Oscar Robertson and Wilt Chamberlain wouldn't be anywhere near their status, let alone stats and impact if they sat in a time machine to play now.

[Maestro Minded]

So I stand by my words.  I believe that the names that I wrote are playing better skillwise than Maradona did back then, though it does not mean that they’re opposing as great threat to the opposition as Maradona did, or that they can change the outcome of a game as quick and impulsively as  Maradona could. 
In summary, im saying that if Maradona were frozen during his peak and defrosted today and thrown into a football pitch, all the players I wrote would be better than him.

You've got to be fucking kidding, or fucking stupid, to really "think" this. That goes for that bullshit list as well. There's a few players on there for whom such an argument could be made, but most of them are nowhere near the level Maradona was playing at. What's next? Wade > Jordan? Yao Ming > Kareem?

lol.. i've come to this stage where i've stopped calling names over the internet. read my arguments, and if you choose to, respond properly. i'm not claiming that wade is better than jordan nor am i claiming that ming is better than kareem.

tell me how many matches with maradona you've actually seen? only a few i would guess.. right? most of the stuff you've seen are compilations. ii could make titus bramble look good with a compilation.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.

ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument

i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal

ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around?? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.

and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.

because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...



with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.

lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.

many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level.  you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot.  nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.

wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above

i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills

actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen

and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand

go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then



   @ this fools basketball intellect

i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff

let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever..  basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments

so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.

are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.


Players            Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1  Robert Parish (70's)      1611
2  Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's)    1560
3  John Stockton (80's)      1422
4  Karl Malone (80's)      1353
5  Moses Malone (70's)      1329
6  Buck Williams (80's)      1307
7  Elvin Hayes    (60's)      1303
8  John Havlicek (60's)      1270
9  Paul Silas (70's)      1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's)      1222
11 A.C. Green (80's)      1278


hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??


Players            Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy             88 (1968-69) 
Tom Henderson          87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore          86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard          86 (1975-76)

i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?

you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm

and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.

Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.




but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.

Man, you simply have NO clue whatsoever what you're talking about...It's a given that players like Karl Malone, Sam Perkins, AC Green, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc played during a MUCH tougher and physical time period in basketball...I think you really can't make comments on this if you haven't watched enough tape. The defense in the NBA peaked around the mid-80's, but the defensive element in American basketball has ALWAYS existed...PeACe

[Maestro Minded]

well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.

ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument

i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal

ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around?? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.

and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.

because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...



with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.

lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.

many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level.  you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot.  nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.

wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above

i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills

actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen

and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand

go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then



   @ this fools basketball intellect

i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff

let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever..  basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments

so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.

are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.


Players            Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1  Robert Parish (70's)      1611
2  Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's)    1560
3  John Stockton (80's)      1422
4  Karl Malone (80's)      1353
5  Moses Malone (70's)      1329
6  Buck Williams (80's)      1307
7  Elvin Hayes    (60's)      1303
8  John Havlicek (60's)      1270
9  Paul Silas (70's)      1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's)      1222
11 A.C. Green (80's)      1278


hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??


Players            Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy             88 (1968-69) 
Tom Henderson          87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore          86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard          86 (1975-76)

i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?

you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm

and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.

Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.




but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.

Man, you simply have NO clue whatsoever what you're talking about...It's a given that players like Karl Malone, Sam Perkins, AC Green, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc played during a MUCH tougher and physical time period in basketball...I think you really can't make comments on this if you haven't watched enough tape. The defense in the NBA peaked around the mid-80's, but the defensive element in American basketball has ALWAYS existed...PeACe

basketball in the 80's was good enough. it's basketball in the 70's and earlier i'm sceptic about

[J @ M @ L]

lol.. i've come to this stage where i've stopped calling names over the internet. read my arguments, and if you choose to, respond properly. i'm not claiming that wade is better than jordan nor am i claiming that ming is better than kareem.

tell me how many matches with maradona you've actually seen? only a few i would guess.. right? most of the stuff you've seen are compilations. ii could make titus bramble look good with a compilation.

I don't know the exact number of matches I've seen... but I've seen all of his 86 and 90 World Cup matches... and I've seen numerous Napoli games... maybe that's it... maybe most of the stuff YOU'VE seen is compilations because a lot of the players you've listed you can't even make an argument for being on the same level as Maradona, let alone make a claim for being better than him.

[Don Jacob]

well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.

ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument

i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal

ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around?? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.

and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.

because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...



with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.

lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.

many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level.  you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot.  nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.

wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above

i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills

actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen

and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand

go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then



   @ this fools basketball intellect

i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff

let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever..  basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments

so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.

are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.


Players            Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1  Robert Parish (70's)      1611
2  Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's)    1560
3  John Stockton (80's)      1422
4  Karl Malone (80's)      1353
5  Moses Malone (70's)      1329
6  Buck Williams (80's)      1307
7  Elvin Hayes    (60's)      1303
8  John Havlicek (60's)      1270
9  Paul Silas (70's)      1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's)      1222
11 A.C. Green (80's)      1278


hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??


Players            Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy             88 (1968-69) 
Tom Henderson          87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore          86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard          86 (1975-76)

i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?

you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm

and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.

Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.




but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.

Man, you simply have NO clue whatsoever what you're talking about...It's a given that players like Karl Malone, Sam Perkins, AC Green, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc played during a MUCH tougher and physical time period in basketball...I think you really can't make comments on this if you haven't watched enough tape. The defense in the NBA peaked around the mid-80's, but the defensive element in American basketball has ALWAYS existed...PeACe

basketball in the 80's was good enough. it's basketball in the 70's and earlier i'm sceptic about

you threw in all those players like the games they played didn't mean anything

most of those players played at the peak of the nba's defese
most of those players played at the peak of the nba's allowed physicality
most of those players had the work ethic 10x  that of  nba players today

you're only making assumptions, it's clear it's useless to debate this with you as you havn't even studied the nba's history. afterall arn't you the same person who agreed with infinite that dr. dre was a better musician than bach and mozart

[Maestro Minded]

well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.

ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument

i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal

ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around?? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.

and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.

because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...



with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.

lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.

many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level.  you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot.  nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.

wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above

i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills

actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen

and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand

go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then



   @ this fools basketball intellect

i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff

let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever..  basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments

so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.

are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.


Players            Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1  Robert Parish (70's)      1611
2  Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's)    1560
3  John Stockton (80's)      1422
4  Karl Malone (80's)      1353
5  Moses Malone (70's)      1329
6  Buck Williams (80's)      1307
7  Elvin Hayes    (60's)      1303
8  John Havlicek (60's)      1270
9  Paul Silas (70's)      1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's)      1222
11 A.C. Green (80's)      1278


hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??


Players            Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy             88 (1968-69) 
Tom Henderson          87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore          86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard          86 (1975-76)

i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?

you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm

and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.

Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.




but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.

Man, you simply have NO clue whatsoever what you're talking about...It's a given that players like Karl Malone, Sam Perkins, AC Green, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc played during a MUCH tougher and physical time period in basketball...I think you really can't make comments on this if you haven't watched enough tape. The defense in the NBA peaked around the mid-80's, but the defensive element in American basketball has ALWAYS existed...PeACe

basketball in the 80's was good enough. it's basketball in the 70's and earlier i'm sceptic about

you threw in all those players like the games they played didn't mean anything

most of those players played at the peak of the nba's defese
most of those players played at the peak of the nba's allowed physicality
most of those players had the work ethic 10x  that of  nba players today

you're only making assumptions, it's clear it's useless to debate this with you as you havn't even studied the nba's history. afterall arn't you the same person who agreed with infinite that dr. dre was a better musician than bach and mozart

Lol jake. Are you suffering from amnesia? You got owned last time you claimed that I said that:
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=81776.25

And here’s the original thread for you to read… again:
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=9075.0

It’s a sad thing really if american athletes had their physical peak 1950-1970. 30 years have passed and they still haven’t found a way to have greater pace and strength. But off course, that’s only in team sports. When it comes to individual sports it’s move obvious because records are being broken all the time, even though they used to be juiced back then.

Athletes have been improving their skills in individual sports, but not in team sports… Right?

[Noname]

^^
I gotta disagree with you on this.

The thing what makes Maradona a GOAT is, he was ahead of his generation. You did name a lot of players that are really good and maybe even better then Maradona.
But Maradona made Argentina world champion. In a team that wouldn't been world champion without Maradona. Thats also the difference between Pele and Maradona. Brazil would've won the WC without Pele. Because they had a great team with fantastic players. Thats not the same thing with Maradona. His team wasn't that good that they would've won the WC without Maradona. Same thing can be said when he went to Napoli.

What youre saying about C Ronaldo is right. C Ronaldo knows a lot more and difficult tricks with the bal then Maradona. But if you saw Maradona play and you notice that he is one with the ball, and he could make that quality usefull on the footballfield. C Ronaldo is very different, because tricks is the way he plays. He even makes trick when it isnt nescecary.

And thats what makes a legend a legend. Maradona made the difference on his own.

c. ronaldo is way better than maradona ever was skillwise. and he's only 22. but i can agree that maradona has achieved way more and that ronaldo probably never will be able to do what maradona have done. maradona was, like you said, way ahead of his time. i agree. and because of him being way better than his opponents , he because a difference-maker. he could change the outcome of a match all by himself. sure. but that STILL doesn't make him better than the ones playing today skill wise. the difference now is that nowadays, its way harder to become ridiculously better than the opposition because of how things have evolved. for example center-backs are now playing COMPLETELY different compared to how they did 20 years ago. in a good team, the centerbacks know each other in and out, they play as one. not only that, nowadays the centerbacks have to be good with the head because of all the crosses the wingers plays. and since they're good with the head, they also becomes attacking thread during freekicks and corners.

give me the names of five amazing defensive midfielder between 1950-1980.  my guess is that you dont even know the name of one player, because it hardly existed. the attackers had basically only the backs to worry about. watch today’s football, for example man u - fullham from last week. while man u played 4-4-2, fullham played 8-1-1, and i'm not exaggerating

Still the thing is, you said defenders now are a lot better thats true. But the forwards back were not as good as today. The game evolves, its a natural thing. Thats why when a player is that good in his era you gotta respect that. Thats why you have so little TRUE legends.

Define skill? What is skill? For me true skill, consists of more then only technique or what an indivdual player can do. Skill comprehensives a lot more then that. And just because C Ronaldo is good with the bal it SEEMS hes a very good player. But i rather have 11 Dirk Kuyt's in my team then 11 C Ronaldo's.

And Maradona was in a league of his own at the time. He understood the game better then anyone in his era. If C Ronaldo ever went back to Sporting Lissabon, and because of him they would win the CL, and he made Portugal win the WC, now that would be an extrodinairy thing, and then people would say that he is a football legend, and he is up there with players like Maradona and Pele.