Hip Hop is dead b/c of the fans

[Tanjential]

Y'all are "overcomplexifying" this issue.  It's the fault of the crackers, period.  Whitey fucks up everything he touches.  End of story.

Whitey is responsible for all the hiphop you've ever heard, man.  Fat, Jewish, Old white men produced distributed and managed every rap act in the 80's and most of the ones in the 90's and most of the ones out now. 

Don't even trip Trauma, he's one of those persona posters like that Real American dude. He's just always on.

-T

[Elevz]

Culture is dead, and that only leads me to one conclusion:

Life is dead.

Man you're trippin.  Wait, i'm white.... you're tripping, dude.

hiphop as you know it may be dead, but not as a 14 year old knows it.

Same with Cabaret.  Life changes.  If you don't change with it, yeah, you're right, your life is dead.  I'm the first one to be up on here bitching about how the old ways were better but you gotta be able to look at a new way of doing things, even if it's blatantly obvious to you it's fucked up, and see some good in it. 

Classic hiphop was great but it also had some bullshit involved in it that's not as deep in the newer hiphop.  Artists are making more money off their music now as well, that's a good thing. 

Also you've got to realize that you're only talking about mainstream.  There's plenty of underground artists who are every bit as talented as past artists.

Another thing that always gets me is, you say hiphop is dead but yet all the great hiphop that was made years ago is still here, most of it is still relevant, and you can listen to any of it any day of the week.  De La Soul made that album in '93 but I was listening to part of it yesterday, personally.   So hiphop's not really dead, it's as strong as ever, just not really much new happening on a 'great' level. 

Also, bootlegging is a huge, serious problem that really cannot be fixed easily and hiphop will continue to have overly commercial aspects until something gets done that will appease bootleggers.  Personally I don't pay for shit most of the time, just a few artists I really like.  I bought Snoop's last cd, that was the only hiphop cd I paid for in the past year or so. 

I'm not even saying life has become unbearable with these "new cultural conditions". I know 14 year olds will like what they hear today, but that's part of the whole point: we're all puppets, and when someone pulls our strings, we move. These 14 year olds know nothing but what they hear today, so that's their standard for music.

I don't know a lot of 14 year olds myself, but I do have a feeling that over time, the meaning of music has become less to the audience. Back in the 80s, just about everyone was heavily into "their" music. Evolving in the 90s, those people became fewer all the time, and now I wonder, do "fans" still exist in the younger audience? Do they still love music, or do they just adapt to what they're being exposed to - making it a part of their system?

I strongly believe with the current conditions of the mass media and the internet having such a huge influence on the way we live our lives, that's inflicting all of our standards. The corporate people who control what we're being exposed to, now more than ever have the ability to decide what we should like and what not. Culture has become easy and simple, for obvious reasons: if you dumb both the audience and the message down, more people will be able to catch up with it. Popular Hip-Hop has become rather simplistic, cabaret has become something that should only make us laugh for as much as possible. The spirits are gone really.

I understand we can always dig into crates of older music to ensure our own pleasure, if we don't like what's being put out today. Me too, I was listening to Buhloone Mindstate last week, which is why I brought it up. That's some great music... But that's history; that's not what's happening today. Just about all of what's coming out today, means nothing to me. Not from the underground, and not from the mainstream. I used to fool myself into believing in the greatness of the underground, until I realised there's good reason (quality, appeal) these rappers aren't exposed to the masses.

When I find myself analyzing my own taste in music, here's a quick look at my personal top 15 most listened artists (source: Last FM)
1 (873) Boudewijn de Groot (the man in my avatar) (60's and 70's thoughtful / political pop music)
2 (424) The Roots (modern hip-hop with an old school touch)
3 (387) De La Soul (90's hiphop with a message)
3 (387) Common (90's and 2000's hiphop with a message)
5 (386) Koop (2000's jazz with a heavy retro feeling)
6 (371) Jay Dee (Donuts: 2000's jazz hop with a retro feeling)
7 (349) Nas (only from listening to hiphop is dead twice, and illmatic and streets disciple plenty of times)
8 (316) Dead Prez (2000's hip-hop with a message)
9 (297) The Five Corners Quintet (the band in my signature) (2000's jazz with a heavy retro feeling)
10 (212) The Dave Brubeck Quartet (40's and 50's jazz)
11 (207) A Tribe Called Quest (90's hiphop)
12 (156) Mos Def (2000's hiphop with a message, only from listening to Black On Both Sides)
13 (154) Bob Sinclar (2000's dance music mixing)
14 (150) Frank Sinatra (60's and 70's jazz / big band music)
15 (147) KRS-One (80's hip-hop)

...why do I feel I have to be so selective about what I listen to? If I listen to today's music at all, it has to be either thoughtful or retrospective... Isn't that perfectly sad? Why do I even have to resort to listening to music from the 40s to find joy? Why can't today's music bring me just that? I'm 20 years old, and that's just not normal. It's like today's climate wasn't made for music lovers. You'll have to be stuck in the past to love music.

And doesn't the same go for cabaret/stand-up comedy? It used to be all about a mixture of making people laugh and think at the same time, but now all we expect is to be laughing all the time at some shallow jokes. Where has the spirit gone?

Culture has been commercialized. There's not much left of what we once knew as artistic integrity. The dollar sign rules, and therefore artists just feel the need to attract as many people as possible. Under no circumstances they should think of anything else.

And so, let me ask this again. Do today's kids still love music? Does art still move the masses? Does art even exist nowadays?

'Free' as our thoughts are now, there's nothing left to lead us into introspection. We've become puppets, roaming in an endless dream of imaginary freedom and happiness. We'd better not wake up out of that dream - lord knows what the suicide rates might rise to. We're spiritually dead, I'm fuckin' serious about this...

By the way, it's good to see you're "back" +1

[Samoan Enforcer]

Yeah, kool keith should keep it real
He should rap about space and mars...

[kool keith]
Yo, I’m tired of looking at everybody. same boots, skully hats in
90 degree weather, looking to get into clubs for free. I’m not
Smoking blunts, or looking for jazz records at the roosevelt.

I left new york, the city itself was stress depression
High boots and urban beats, that wasn’t my direction
Producers filtering join in with r&b
A million rappers, some clones trying to sound like me
Biting my space styles, biting my horror-core
All I saw was kool keiths on my thaw
Record companies had g’d-off all my royalties
Watching vinyl spin, local groups’ wack mc’s
Some try to rap with that perpetrate mobster crap
Karl kani jeans, fat stomachs in the limosines
Mixtapes by wack dj’s adds doo doo play
I’m on the turnpike, the city drifting down the highway
Like a mirage, the style there is all illusion
On videos out of town, peoples buy confusion
Rolling high with cash pulled over down my eye
Since I’ve been out, y’all can’t see

Chorus:
Is the world made of plastic?
Is the city buried in dreams? (yeah)
Is the world made of plastic?
Cause that’s the way is seems (owww)

Watching tv so bored, while imbiciles hold the mic cord
Graffiti playgrounds are played out, yo how’d that sound?
Army fatigues are weak, is for the minor leagues
No rapping cyphers or brothers in the rented benz
Crews on stage, acting hard with a thousand friends
I saw the place turn plastic, crackers looping beats
People with no deals, walkmen rappin on the streets
I turned my back, 90% of the city sounded wack
Payola scams switched dj’s like a rubber band
Everybody clear with beats trying to be premier
Clearing samples, your sp-12 fake examples
My money grows with green from my own label
While you act rich with no cash on the bigger label
Your tri-state ways are shut down by barricades
In fact I packed my bags, and listened to e-40
Mac mall, c-bo, and other rappers you don’t know
You’re narrow-minded and styles of mind you won’t find it
My sound proceeds with moog and undertone bass
No comic gimmicks with beats rapping in my face
I come back real, solid rock razor steel
Tap your program, show the world I’m the man
You copy poppa large, the industry is large

Chorus x2

As I do see sorta rugged wack beer commercials
Some rappers are bought and puppeteered like the ninja turtles
From manhattan I heat up, yo light up times square
I make noise like open high hats on your cheap snare
No promotional shows, girls wear corn rows
People with hooded sweaters on crack keep me on my toes
I walk with straw hats, fake glasses in the projects
Bring my ghost image so tense on the line of scrimmage
Playing my numbers, waiting for the five to come
Spaghetti out the window, people acting dumb
Fire hazards wake the neighbors, your family’s nosy
I come and go as I please on blockhead mc’s
You bought new sneakers, no car, scrambling on the corner
I’m not the star you are, the city’s fallen far
By mechanism, you’re on my tip
Stay off my penis, you’ve duplicated me for years

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you are the one

Chorus x2

[WestCoasta]

^  good one