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The fucking Iranians just captured 15 British soldiers

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Real American:
The British soldiers weren't on iranian waters.

Elevz:

--- Quote from: Don Rizzle on March 26, 2007, 10:03:51 AM ---well we have about 100k in the army, about not sure of the current iraq figure but i believe it is being reduced to about 4k while arganistan is to get more troops which are currently at around 6 or 7k so might rise to 10k we have over comitments but not that substantial. at the hight of the iraq invasion we deployed about 48k troops but that number was quickly scaled back. we also have 2.5k going AWOL each year, although apprenetly iraq isn't the main cause.

to me you sound very biased, all your speculation is being mounted around the british and american motives to attack iran, as iran couldn't have possible done any wrong in this whole affair. Britain is not trying to start a war and we won't be drawn into one with iran either i garentee you that.

Don't forget Tony Blair only has a shelf life until the end of May
--- End quote ---

Me being biased? Most definately, or at least I'm extremely sceptical. But who isn't?

Thing is, I don't believe in the power of a PM or president alone. They're not solely thinking out the actions of a government. Even when both Blair and Bush are gone, that won't necessarily make a difference.

I've frequently stated this before in other discussions: it's impossible for us to know the real motives behind the actions of governments, and therefore we simply cannot objectively judge their moves. Yes, I'm rather sceptical about their power, but I'm only stating the possibilities. There's no guaranteeing a war in Iran doesn't happen as long as there's fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. The UK and the US spend more money on defence than that. I don't believe their leaders in their speeches (although I don't necessarily assume they're lying), and I don't automatically assume they're objectively trying to better the world. If they want a war, they'll start one. If they want peace, it's up to them.

This whole situation about Iranians capturing British soldiers is nothing more than a classic case of he say, she say. There's no way we can objectively tell where these soldiers were and what they were doing when they were captured, so really we should stop pretending to know. Fact is, there's only little water in Iraq. Iraq does have plenty of water, but it doesnt exactly naturally belong to Iraq. They don't call it the Persian Gulf for nothing. Those are actual facts - the rest is just pointless talk.

virtuoso:
They were not in Iranian waters according to the British Government?

If so you mean the same British Government who helped to created the myth about Iraqis WMD's?

I agree with 11'z how the hell is this a "we" issue, we saw how much we counted when the government defied the will of us and sent british soldiers to the slaughter house in Iraq. "We" see what a disregard the government has for human life when they drop thousands of tonnes of depleted uranium, which destroy the bodies of both the troops and the men women and children. The Gulf Of Tonkin has been publicly declassified as a staged event which never happened, the Roosevelt tapes were released in the 90's proving that Pearl Harbour was not an event which came out of the blue. It was provoked by the actions of the u.s military, finally Japan took the bait and the rest is history.

By the same token we can't take the iranian's word for it either but who stands to gain the most from this?

Elevz:

--- Quote from: virtuoso on March 26, 2007, 03:20:44 PM ---The Gulf Of Tonkin has been publicly declassified as a staged event which never happened, the Roosevelt tapes were released in the 90's proving that Pearl Harbour was not an event which came out of the blue. It was provoked by the actions of the u.s military, finally Japan took the bait and the rest is history.
--- End quote ---

SAY WHAT?

...I need to be educated man. Props.

virtuoso:

Sure thing http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB132/tapes.htm

That has both the transcript and audio taped conversations that went on between LBJ and the Secretary Of Defence in relation to the gulf of tonkin

 ;)

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