Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Iraq never threatened America, Hitler never threatened America, Vietnam never th
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: 7even on June 06, 2007, 10:11:54 AM ---
You just can't win a war like that. Being a country in the middle of it and in war with more than 2 fronts against you. Being from America it is a situation hard to grasp. Because your country is isolated as fuck.
Other important factors were that the UK was superior in the water, with their boats and shit. They were a nation that thrived on those type of things, whereas Germany was just getting into it, understandably as the UK is an island and Germany doesn't have any significant water around itself.
But the ultimate factor was, as soon as America entered the war there was no way of winning it. You can't battle half the world and win, when your county is in the middle of it. Of course the US waited a couple years until they joined, which has been pretty sneaky.
The Ottoman Empire is not very present in the textbooks when it comes to WW1. Nobody is bitter about them. The fact is, that they teach a sort of self-hate in school. For example, according to the books and common perspective, the country that started WW1 was Germany, but it was really Austria (which is to Germany pretty much what Canada is to the US) was catching feelings because Franz Ferdinand was assassinated by Serbia in a terroristic act, and the country (Serbia) wasn't really going to do anything about it so they declared war upon them. As Austria can't handle something like this by itself, it went without saying that its big brother Germany would help them majorly. And that's how one thing add to another. Yet nobody talks about that. It's always just "Germany started the war, the whole reason for everything bad that happened from 1914 to 1918 is Germany, fuck Germany"... and that is also the reason why they don't talk about allies much. They don't really talk about the Japanese or Pearl Harbor when it comes to WW2. Like I said, they teach you self-loath in school.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the response. I got to admit, in many ways Germany is extremely impressive. Because, they were obviously the key figure of the Central War powers, and in many cases I must admit the Ottomans were more of a liability to them than a partner. Also, Germany was a big brother to Austria, and Hungary I don't think was that much help. My point is, in some ways, it was like GERMANY AGAINST THE WORLD! AND THE SUPRISING THING IS, THEY DAMN NEAR WON! If the American's had not entered, and if the Arabs had not rebelled and stabbed their co-religionist Turks in the back (which they immediately regretted as soon as they found out about the Sykes-Picot agreement which actually granted land to France that they had already been promised by Britian; and would SEVERELY come to regret when the realized Palestine was going to become a Jewish homeland).
And not only was Germany impressive then, but look at their resilence after the war. They went from almost being the Central world superpower, to losing the war and becoming the world's bitch, with harsh reperations and occupation and everything; and then, again they were right back in the middle of things in WW2, again on the verge of becoming the world superpower! And then, they lose again in the most embarrasing fashion, their leader, Hitler, becomes known as the worst monster in world history... YET AGAIN now they have bounced back to become one of the major Western Powers!
So, I have to admit, Germany has incredible resilience. Also, I've had the chance to read more about Kaiser Wilhelm so I'd like to hear 7even's perspective on Kaiser Wilhelm, and anything else you'd like to add about their alliance with the Ottomans. Ohh, and you kind of explained militarily why they lost (because of inferior seapower, etc.) but I would like to hear more about idealogically why they lost, I mean, was it a case of too much ambition? Or that they were sabatoged by Britian? Or pulled into a bad war by Austria? Please explain.
TraceOneInfinite:
7EVEN, I just thought of another question I wanted to ask....
Who did Hitler blame for Germany's WW1 loss? What did Hitler think of Kaiser Wilhelm? And did Hitler feel like the Jews had sabatoged Germany in losing WW1, and is that part of where his hate stemmed from? (Because after all, it was a major victory for the Zionist Jews that the German's and Ottomans lost)
7even:
--- Quote from: Shakur Abdul-Latif's Definition Of Hip-Hop..by -Infinite- on June 06, 2007, 01:50:29 PM ---So, I have to admit, Germany has incredible resilience. Also, I've had the chance to read more about Kaiser Wilhelm so I'd like to hear 7even's perspective on Kaiser Wilhelm, and anything else you'd like to add about their alliance with the Ottomans. Ohh, and you kind of explained militarily why they lost (because of inferior seapower, etc.) but I would like to hear more about idealogically why they lost, I mean, was it a case of too much ambition? Or that they were sabatoged by Britian? Or pulled into a bad war by Austria? Please explain.
--- End quote ---
My personal opinion is that they lost because they burned the candle at both ends. They were by far superior in comparison to for instance a country like France, and they were pretty damn arrogant. They tried to run over France and Russia simultanelously, stuff like this. They also attacked and attacked without caring much about strategic retreats.
About Kaiser Wilhelm, I think he made a major mistake when he fired Bismarck. Bismarck was a true genius. Wilhelm also had deep inner hate for the UK, because his mother was English and he was a little physically retarded and back then those things were kind of blamed on the mother. His hate for England didn't come in handy in the war cause you don't make the best decisions when you're emotional.
Ultimately my main problem with him is that he couldn't arrange himself with Bismarck. I have to say that I'm not a fan of inherited leaders to begin with, for all the obvious reasons... just because you're the son of somebody doesn't mean you're fit to be the leader of a great nation.
About the alliance with the Ottomans I don't have much knowledge/thoughts on, sorry.
--- Quote from: Shakur Abdul-Latif's Definition Of Hip-Hop..by -Infinite- on June 06, 2007, 02:06:45 PM ---7EVEN, I just thought of another question I wanted to ask....
Who did Hitler blame for Germany's WW1 loss? What did Hitler think of Kaiser Wilhelm? And did Hitler feel like the Jews had sabatoged Germany in losing WW1, and is that part of where his hate stemmed from? (Because after all, it was a major victory for the Zionist Jews that the German's and Ottomans lost)
--- End quote ---
The version of Hitler (and other politicians) on why they lost is because they didn't get enough support from home. That theory is called "Dolchstoßlegende" (trans.: the legend about being backstabbed with a dagger). A lot of politicians at home thought the war was unwinnable and openly spoke out against generals and Wilhelm. Those people were later refered to as "Die Novemberverbrecher" (trans.: the criminals of november [in reference to the capitulation in november 1918]) and accused of treason. Anti-semitism was of course involved here too, like with pretty much everything Hitler had his hands in.
I don't know if Hitler ever publically stated his view on Kaiser Wilhelm. But I do know this: He said that when Germany gave up in 1918 and when the treaty of Versailles happened, that was precisely the time when he decided to become a politician. He was 1. really disappointed because the "traitors"/"leftists"/"democrats"/Novemberverbrecher" ... whatever you wanna call them, turned their back on Wilhelm which ultimately led to capitulation and 2. very upset with how insane the treaty of Versailles was. When he became a politician and had his first speeches and shit, he claimed to go to France, go to Versailles and force them to terminate that treaty. That's why many people voted for him. And he actually really did that.
Canuck:
--- Quote from: Shakur Abdul-Latif's Definition Of Hip-Hop..by -Infinite- on June 04, 2007, 09:16:22 PM ---I'm going to write more about this a little later... but did you all ever notice that in World War 1, World War 2, Vietnam, Gulf War 1, Gulf War 2, and so on... America was never threatened by those countries?
The Germans couldn't even cross the English channel to invade England!! Let alone cross the Atlantic to attack America!
--- End quote ---
In WWI US didn't want to enter the war and get involved in European affairs, they didn't enter the war until the German Navy sunk the Lusitania a civilian American ship.
In WWII FDR had wanted to enter the war but Congress did not want to get involved in European affairs once again, Hitler feared US entry into the war and so he signed the Tripartite Pact with Italy and Japan which meant each country would support each other if either of them were attacked. So when Japan attacked Pearl Harbour Britain and USA declared war on Japan, then Hitler declared war on America as part of the Tripartite, and after that Britain and Russia told the US to focus on taking out Germany in Europe and then they would focus on Japan.
J @ M @ L:
--- Quote from: Seer - San on June 06, 2007, 10:15:57 AM ---
if muslims are so good why didnt they invent nukes? :D
--- End quote ---
Because they're "good" ;)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version