This series proves why Duncan is better than Shaq

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

He only considers the Knicks because they have an infinite amount of money and could give him the hugest contract extension a basketball player has ever seen. That and the fact that it's probably the biggest market next to LA. He could be remembered as the one who brought the Madison Square back. He wants that attention.

I know. But that has nothing to do with winning championships. It's all about money & attention.

Yea...Kobe wants money and attention, not to win. Antonio, you fucking suck ass, bro. You did a complete 360. Honestly. I feel bad for you. The media has brainwashed you as well...PeACe

He wants to win in NYC, yeah. 

First off, what you heard was a RUMOR...You are a follower, listening to what the MEDIA is telling you about Kobe. Second off, Kobe would DOMINATE the east with the Knicks. Plus, Isaiah never lied to Kobe like Jerry Buss did......Either way, Kobe is NOT getting traded. He last spoke of a possible trade 2 weeks ago, everything else you're going offa' is MEDIA MADE...PeACe

[mrceo]

lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha

and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol

LOL@Shaq being much better than Kobe' in '04, when Shaq had trouble getting off the ground and grabbing boards in double digits or scoring 20 or more points. And LMAO@2006, where Shaq put up games of 6 points and 5 rebounds and couldn't score over 20 points ONCE in the finals...You're funny, 7even. If Shaq was smarter, we'd be talking 6peat+. You know this.

I'm not talking about the 90+ games the Lakers had in 2003-04, but in the Finals he was the much better player. Kobe had that clutch 3 in Game 2, that was as good as he got in the series. Shaq was still an animal. Not as much as back in his prime, but he was still pretty damn good if you don't ignore the fact that he was like 32 playing against the best defensive team and the best big man defender in the game. Anyways, that's not so important, what's important is that it is retarded to argue that Shaq didn't defer to Kobe in the '04 Finals when he should have.

Of course Shaq couldn't contribute like back in the day in the '06 Finals, but he deferred to Wade and sometimes even to Zo when he had to. It's not like Duncan was absolutely dominating offensively this post-season, either.

I also refuse to believe that it was all Shaq's fault how the situation with Kobe didn't work out.


Shaq >> Duncan, bottom line.


What do you mean if Shaq was smarter? Was he supposed to stay with the Lakers after 04? Kobe wouldn't have re-signed, you know this. And I'm sure you're the last one who would argue that the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe and Odom would win 3 more titles.

You can read all the Lakerbooks you want, Kobe and Shaq had problems for many years. The only difference is as long as you are winning, you can look past that. As soon as you're not even successful, it can become a huge problem.

DUDE... Did you watch the series? We lost because Ben Wallace was holding Shaq down, and Shaq INSISTED that the offence keeps running through him...Yes, Kobe had a bad series shooting-wise, but he was still holding it down on defense and doing his...LMAO@pretending like Shaq was on Kobe's level in '04 because of one series, where Shaq was considered "shut down" by his standards...If the offence runs through Kobe in '04, and Shaq lets loose, just doing his, it's a whole nother story. If Shaq wasn't a primadonna who was afraid of sharing spotlight, then the whole situation with Kobe never woulda' happened to begin with...Kobe was gunna opt out either way, every star does this, you can get more money that way...But the point is, Kobe said he wouldn't mind playing alongside Shaq for his whole career. It was Shaq who didn't want his legacy tarnished when Kobe began taking over...WHY DO YOU THINK WE STARTED LOSING WHEN SHAQ WAS EXITING HIS PRIME? He coulda' done what Kareem did for Magic...But no, he decided to do what he did for Penny...ONCE AGAIN.

Nik what are you talking about?  Shaq averaged about 28 points/game in the 2004 finals, how did he get shut down by Big Ben, that's not a very good point your trying to make.  The Lakers lost that year because Payton didn't step up and Malone was injured, I say if Malone was healthy and Kareem Rush hit shots like he did in the Western Conference Finals we woulda won that year too

"We"? You're a Laker fan?? Fact of the matter is, Shaq was unquestionably out of his prime by then. You know he's not himself anymore when he's putting up games of 14 points and 8 rebounds in the Finals...Shaq did have some nice games, but overall, he should not have acted like he did that season. We woulda won the series with Malone healthy and some better officiating, but the fact of the matter is, Shaq was only playing dominant every other game, yet the offense was running through him based on HIS demands...If you demand the offense, at least pull through...2003-04 is the seaosn Shaq started REALLY pissing me off with his attitude and work ethic. He definitely coulda taken the higher road and it definitely woulda' paid off. He said his dream was to retire with 2 hands fulla' rings, 6, 7, 8+...He definitely coulda' had it ...PeACe

I was a Laker fan when Shaq was with 'em.  I'm a Shaq fan basically, wherever Shaq goes I go.  So I have been a Magic, Laker, and now a Heat fan.  Ok, one game of 14 and 8 doesn't make it his fault, he was dominating every other game in the finals.  There was just no one else helping him out besides Kobe.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^^Point is, he was nowhere near top shape. His overall finals appearance in '04 was considered sub-par, as was his whole season. You KNOW Shaq coulda' made his legacy way greater....PeACe

[Don Jacob]

game 1 2004 nba finals

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- While the Lakers stumbled and strained through the second half of their first home loss in the playoffs, a few scattered cries eventually grew to a small chorus from the flummoxed crowd.

"Shoot! Shoot! Shoot!"

 
That's easier shouted than done against the Pistons' stifling defense -- and the Lakers have a whole new respect for the bruising Eastern Conference champions after Detroit's 87-75 victory in Game 1 of the NBA Finals on Sunday night.

"I don't know if we could ever defend better," Pistons coach Larry Brown said. "We contested shots. We did an unbelievable job, and I think that's what it's going to take."

Kobe Bryant heard the chants, firing up 27 shots of mostly dubious quality while scoring 25 points. But though Shaquille O'Neal went 13-for-16 on the way to 34 points, he didn't get the ball nearly enough in the second half.

"That's a good team, and we have to rise up and meet that challenge," O'Neal said. "We know that now."

The Lakers' struggles also sparked another mini-controversy in a season chock-full of them. Coach Phil Jackson said he thought O'Neal looked tired in the second half.

"Tired of waiting," O'Neal responded. "I don't think a person going 13-for-16 is a sign of being tired by any means."

Chauncey Billups scored 22 points for the Pistons, who weren't much better on offense than the Lakers. But Rasheed Wallace scored six of his 14 points in the fourth quarter, and Detroit poured its energy into a defense that kept the ball away from O'Neal.

Though the Pistons have exactly six games of NBA Finals experience on their roster, they were not intimidated by the Lakers' star-packed crowd or the nine championship banners on the arena wall. They still believe they're tough enough to end the West's streak of five straight series victories in the NBA Finals.

"We're never scared," said playoff scoring leader Richard Hamilton, who had just 12 points on 5-of-16 shooting. "We're going to go out there and have each other's back."

Only an incredible defensive team could shut down the Lakers, and the Pistons certainly put another chokehold on another powerful opponent. They blanketed Los Angeles on nearly every possession, forcing difficult passes and tougher shots by the sheer force of their athleticism.

Shaq scored nearly every time he got the ball low in the paint, but the Pistons attacked Los Angeles' entry passes and also forced O'Neal to commit six turnovers. He got just eight shots in the second half, while Bryant missed 10 of his 15 -- and also clanged consecutive 3-pointers in the fourth quarter to kill the Lakers' last attempt at a rally.

O'Neal went 8-for-12 from the line, but didn't shoot a free throw in the second half as the Lakers failed to find him underneath. He still was angry after the game until getting a hug and a kiss from his wife and daughter on the way out of Staples Center.

The rest of the Lakers got no more than a handful of open looks. From Ben Wallace's dangerous presence in the middle to Billups' harassment of Gary Payton and Derek Fisher, the Pistons were all over the Lakers.

By the final possession, the Lakers didn't even try: Payton dribbled out the final 10 seconds of his first finals game since 1996 with pure disgust on his face.

Game 2 in the best-of-seven series is Tuesday night, with Game 3 in Auburn Hills on Thursday night.

"It's a seven-game series, and there's always Tuesday," Bryant said.

Payton and Karl Malone , the Lakers' ringless duo, both went scoreless in the first half. Malone had the worst playoff game of his 19-season career, scoring four points on 2-of-9 shooting, and Payton -- who had three points -- bettered his career playoff-low by one point.

"Four points is terrible," Malone said. "My little boy can do that."

None of the Lakers' supporting cast scored more than five points, while eight Pistons got at least that many. Except for Hamilton's shooting struggles against the defense of childhood rival Bryant, the game was almost ideal Detroit basketball.

"It's unbelievable the feeling we have right now, but there's no way we can dwell on it," Billups said. "We have to come in [Monday] and start worrying about Game 2."

[Don Jacob]

game 2 2004 nba finals

LOS ANGELES -- In a performance that cemented his status as one of the great superstars in NBA history, Kobe Bryant pulled off a most stunning display on the sport's biggest stage.

Bryant tied the game with a 3-pointer with 2.1 seconds left in regulation and helped the Los Angeles Lakers pull away for good at the start of overtime in their 99-91 victory against the Detroit Pistons in Game 2 of the NBA Finals on Tuesday night.

 
We're pretty sure Kobe could have gotten his shot in college, too.

"It's probably the biggest shot I've hit in my career, period," Bryant said.

Seconds from facing a 2-0 deficit with the series headed to Detroit, the Lakers evened it at a game apiece behind Bryant's 33 points and seven assists.

"It's all about rising to the challenge," Bryant said. "High stakes. I know I can rise to that."

The teams play again Thursday night, each having earned a greater level of respect for their opponent. The Lakers now realize more than ever that the Pistons are anything but a pushover, while Detroit now knows that no victory is ever secure when the ball can end up in Bryant's hands for the biggest shot of the game.

"It's a challenge," Bryant said. "A dogfight. No one said it was going to be easy. We look forward to going up there."

Shaquille O'Neal added 29 points for the Lakers[/u], six of them coming in the extra period as Los Angeles improved to 7-0 in overtime games during the regular season and postseason.

One of those victories came on the final night of the regular season at Portland when Bryant hit a buzzer-beating 3-pointer to force overtime, then won it at the end of the extra period with another 3 to give the Lakers the Pacific Division title.

This time, things looked fairly hopeless for the Lakers as they trailed by six points with less than 40 seconds left in regulation. But O'Neal converted a three-point play and Chauncey Billups missed a runner for Detroit, giving the Lakers a last shot.

"Well, we always believe Kobe can make miracle shots even when things are not going well for him," coach Phil Jackson said. "That was a great shot."

Naturally, the ball went to No. 8. And naturally, Bryant drilled it.

"That's why he's so special," Pistons coach Larry Brown said. "After what the kid's been through all year, more power to him, because he's a great, great young man."

After hitting the shot over the outstretched hand of old high school rival Richard Hamilton, Bryant ran back to the bench to chest-bump teammate Devean George as Detroit called timeout to set up a last shot.

"Shaq gave me a great down pick," Bryant said. "I had Richard on me, and I just tried to gather my balance and knock it down."

Rasheed Wallace let Tayshaun Prince's inbounds pass slip through his hands, and the clock expired without the Pistons attempting a final shot.

The momentum was squarely on the Lakers' side by then, and Los Angeles outscored Detroit 10-2 in the extra period to even the series.

Bryant began the extra period by feeding O'Neal for a dunk, but he then picked up his fifth foul with 4:18 left. Did it matter? Not a bit.

Bryant scored on a drive, fed O'Neal for a 4-footer and scored on a driving bank shot for a 97-91 lead.

The capper came when Luke Walton, a surprise contributor in the first half and at the end, sent an alley-oop pass to O'Neal for a dunk.

Detroit shot just 1-for-9 in overtime, ruining a performance that seemed so promising as regulation wound down.

Billups scored 27 and Hamilton 26 for the Pistons.

The difference-maker in the first half was Walton, a rookie who didn't get off the bench in Game 1.

Besides making all three of his shots and grabbing five rebounds, Walton had eight assists. Two of them came on passes to Bryant to begin a 15-6 run to close the half that gave the Lakers a 44-36 lead.

Los Angeles was able to sustain a comfortable margin through the early part of the third quarter, in large part because the Lakers' own sloppiness was matched by Detroit's. After Jackson berated guard Gary Payton as he walked off the court during a timeout, Bryant came out and hit a 22-foot jumper for a 54-43 lead.

Detroit began chipping away by going at the Lakers' two aging superstars, Wallace taking on Karl Malone and Billups going at Payton. Both Los Angeles players began making mental mistakes on offense, too.

Getting 16 points in the quarter from Billups and eight from Wallace, Detroit pulled within one point late in the quarter and trailed 68-66 entering the fourth.

Walton didn't get off the bench in the second half until after Detroit scored the first basket of the fourth quarter to tie it, and the Pistons pulled ahead on a 3-pointer by Lindsey Hunter as Jackson went with a lineup of Walton, Kareem Rush, Brian Cook, Derek Fisher and O'Neal.

O'Neal took a pass from Walton and plowed into Ben Wallace with 6:17 left, picking up his fifth foul and heading to the bench. A give-and-go layup by Hamilton off a pass from Rasheed Wallace was followed by an airball by Bryant, and Rasheed Wallace then fed Ben Wallace for a reverse layup and an 81-77 lead.

Detroit traded baskets with the Lakers on the next two possessions, and a missed 3 by Bryant was followed by two free throws by Hamilton for an 87-82 lead with 1:19 left.

[Don Jacob]

game 3 2004 nba finals

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- When the entry pass floated inside to Shaquille O'Neal, Elden Campbell knocked it away and dashed downcourt. Richard Hamilton picked up the loose ball and flung it forward.

In a fourth-quarter play that symbolized the entire night for the Detroit Pistons, the 36-year-old Campbell caught the ball and went flying in for a left-handed jam, and the decibel level at the Palace went off the charts.

The dunk by the backup center gave the Pistons an 18-point lead on their way to a 88-68 victory Thursday night over the Los Angeles Lakers and a 2-1 lead in the NBA Finals.

"I wouldn't say it buried them, but that was a big play at the time," said Campbell, adding it was his first breakaway dunk since he played in Charlotte more than two years ago.

The Pistons bounced back from their heartbreaking overtime loss in Game 2 with suffocating defense and opportunistic offense that whipped their fans into a frenzy.

Now, an NBA championship is very much within the Pistons' reach. No Eastern Conference team has won a title since 1998, but these Pistons are showing it may be a distinct possibility.

"I'm shocked," Pistons coach Larry Brown said, "but I'm really proud of the way we played."

Kobe Bryant, the hero of Game 2, was held without a field goal in the first half and the Lakers were limited to the lowest postseason point total in their storied franchise history.

"As I told the team, this is only one game,' Lakers coach Phil Jackson said after the Pistons regained control of a series they've dominated for all but a few minutes. "We have a couple days to get our feet on the ground and get ready for Game 4."

Hamilton scored 31 points and Chauncey Billups had 19 as Detroit's backcourt gave the Pistons just about all the offense they needed. Throw in double-figure rebounding performances by Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace, three steals apiece from Campbell and Tayshaun Prince, and it all added up to a lopsided game that could even be called a mismatch in favor of the team that entered the series as huge underdogs.

"Most of it was effort related," O'Neal said. "This is a tough challenge, but we are making it a lot tougher on ourselves."

Game 4 is Sunday night at the arena where two championship banners hang in the north end zone.

And if form holds, this series might not even make it back to Los Angeles for a Game 6 or 7.

Nothing worked for the Lakers, from Bryant's offense to O'Neal's touch to Karl Malone's ailing knee to Gary Payton's slow feet.

Campbell's breakaway dunk put the Pistons ahead 70-52, and Los Angeles never mounted anything even resembling a concerted comeback effort. The crowd went wild with 2:10 remaining when little-used rookie Darko Milicic got off the bench for his series debut.

Bryant finished with just 11 points on 4-for-13 shooting and O'Neal scored 14. No one else on the Lakers scored in double figures.

"We never get down. That was a heartbreaker in Game 2, and people thought we would be flat, but we were even more hungry," Billups said. "We just keep contesting everything. Tayshaun was great tonight contesting every shot Kobe took. The Big Fella is a problem for us, but Ben and Rasheed are down there working, and so is Elden."

After O'Neal opened the second half with a dunk, the Pistons got the offense in gear and began to pull away. Billups scored nine points in the first four minutes of the quarter on a pair of 3s and a drive around Payton for a three-point play, and a follow dunk by Prince forced the Lakers to call timeout trailing 54-40.

Asked why the Lakers didn't get him the ball more, O'Neal replied: "That's the story of my life, buddy."

Bryant eventually hit his first shot with 7:35 left in the third quarter, making an 18-footer, but the Pistons answered back with a gorgeous display of passing as Prince fed Rasheed Wallace five feet from the basket, and he in turn threaded a soft toss to Ben Wallace for a layup.

More of the same followed, the Lakers growing increasingly frustrated by each botched possession, the Pistons becoming more emboldened by their ability to create quality shots. It was 63-51 after three quarters, and the lead grew to 20 before the fourth quarter was even four minutes old.

Campbell even added another deflection just moments after his breakaway dunk, and Lindsey Hunter turned it into a layup to make it 72-52.

"Well, I don't think we can defend better than we did tonight," Brown said. "Hey, we held them to 68 points shooting 40 percent. For us that's an incredible accomplishment."

Bryant scored only one point in the first half, missing all four of his attempts from the field and committing one egregious turnover when he fired a pass several feet over the head of a teammate and into the second row of the stands.

But as bad as Bryant was, the Pistons weren't much better -- especially in the second quarter. Detroit went 12 consecutive possessions at one point without a field goal and missed five free throws in the period to allow the Lakers to stay within striking range. The Pistons led 39-32 at halftime behind 14 points from Hamilton.

After wavering for two days on whether he'd play, Malone came out for the opening tip wearing a knee brace for the first time in his career. His mobility was obviously limited, however, and the Pistons outrebounded the Lakers 20-10 in the first quarter to open an early 13-point lead.

[Don Jacob]

game 4 nba finals

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. (AP) -- The better team won again. And yes, the Detroit Pistons are proving they are clearly the better team.

Poised and primed for a title, Detroit took care of business while the Lakers were losing their cool. Building a lead early in the fourth quarter and holding it the rest of the way, the Pistons moved one victory closer to their first championship in 14 years with a convincing 88-80 victory Sunday night in Game 4 of the NBA Finals.

With a 3-1 lead, the surprising Pistons have made one thing crystal clear: They are the superior team, winning without egos and superstars -- and the problems that come with them.

 
'Sheed repeatedly posted up and took it strong to the rack.

"They have got a coach who won nine championships," Detroit coach Larry Brown said. "They have got two of the greatest players that are in their prime, so we can't take anything for granted. That's the thing we're going to talk about."

These were some of the scenes Pistons fans will cherish: Chauncey Billups making timely 3-pointers, Rasheed Wallace backpedalling downcourt with a minute left after making a jumper that capped his best game of the playoffs; Richard Hamilton calmly knocking down free throws.

As for the Lakers, the snapshots were these: Kobe Bryant screaming at the referees and picking up a late technical foul; Shaquille O'Neal yelling at someone in the Lakers' huddle, most likely Bryant, after two particularly egregious shot selections; Karl Malone staying parked on the bench for the entire fourth quarter, a nonfactor again; Gary Payton getting toasted by Hamilton again.

It's almost over for these Lakers, their breakup possibly coming in the next week. No team has ever come back from a 3-1 deficit in the finals, and the Lakers seem ill-equipped to become the first.

Game 5 is Tuesday night, and the Pistons -- heavy underdogs when the series began -- could become the first team to bring the title back to the Eastern Conference since Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls won it in 1998.

"Well, a disappointing night tonight," Lakers coach Phil Jackson said. "We got caught off-guard in the fourth quarter and were not able to handle the run they made in the fourth quarter sufficiently.

"Give credit to the Pistons."

Wallace scored 26, Billups had 23 and Hamilton 17 to lead Detroit, which outscored the Lakers 32-24 in the fourth quarter.

"We're just tough to play when we can get 'Sheed going like that," Billups said.

O'Neal had 36 and Bryant 20 for the Lakers, whose dysfunctional two-man show isn't enough to keep up with Detroit's depth and determination.
 
Kobe scored 20 but shot 32 percent from the field.

O'Neal took 21 shots and made 16, and he might have doubled those totals if his teammates had gotten him the ball more often. But Bryant somehow found it necessary to launch 14 attempts in the first half and 25 overall, many of which were both unwise and off-target.

No one else on the Lakers had more than eight points, and Los Angeles again was outrebounded and plagued by fouls.

"My shots, some of them were good and some of them stunk -- that's pretty much every game with me," Bryant said. "I think everyone's a little down right now."

Detroit made 29 field goals and 28 foul shots and scored 21 points on the fast break in what was the closest game of the series until the Pistons broke it open with a 7-0 run for a 77-67 lead with 4:52 left. The Lakers got no closer than seven the rest of the way as the Pistons made shots -- whether from the field or the foul line -- when they needed them.

"It was just my night," said Wallace, whose previous high in this postseason was 22. He shot 10-for-23 with 13 rebounds and two blocks, while Billups shot 7-for-12 and Billups was 5-for-11.

None of those lines was anything spectacular, and that was fitting for a team that gets the job done efficiently if not beautifully.

"We can play with this team," insisted O'Neal. "We haven't played well yet or shown it yet.

"It's a big challenge for us, and the stage is set," O'Neal said. "The pressure is on them, they have to close us out."

It was widely expected that Jackson would change his starting lineup or rotations, especially after five of the Lakers' veterans -- O'Neal, Bryant, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher and Devean George -- had an off-day conference with Jackson in a restroom at The Palace, pleading with him to put his trust in them since they know his triangle offense best. But Jackson went with his usual starting five.

Though the Lakers botched their first couple of possessions, they quickly began getting the ball to O'Neal deep in the low post. His first two shots were dunks, his next two were 5-footers from either side of the basket, and the fifth was an alley-oop dunk. O'Neal went 5-for-5 in a first quarter that ended with the Lakers ahead 22-21.

After missing a shot, O'Neal hit his next two midway through the second quarter and yelled "Try to stop that!" to no one in particular with an animated expression on his face. The pace of the quarter was slow thanks to 16 fouls before Mike James took control and ran two fast breaks by himself, converting both times to help Detroit to a 41-39 halftime lead.

Wallace began to carry the Pistons in the third quarter, dominating his matchup with Slava Medvedenko after Malone left the game. A late 6-0 run by the Lakers, ending with a steal and dunk by Bryant, produced a 56-56 deadlock entering the final period.

Hamilton hit two jumpers to open the fourth quarter, Ben Wallace rebounded his own missed free throw and banked it in for a 65-60 lead, and a 3 by Billups made it 70-64 with 6:20 left

After the Lakers got within three, Billups hit another 3-pointer to start the game-deciding 7-0 run.

"I told them how proud I was," coach Larry Brown said. "But no matter how you look at it, you've got to win four games in the series."

[Don Jacob]

game 5 nba finals

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- The Lakers left the court in pieces. Karl Malone kept his head down, Shaquille O'Neal absently slapped a few high-fives and Kobe Bryant jogged in late, encased in his own thoughts.

The Pistons celebrated in concert, pulling their wives and children and entourages onto an increasingly shaky stage at the center of The Palace. They crowded around coach Larry Brown, who stood next to the Larry O'Brien Trophy -- a small, golden monument to the glories of teamwork.

"We did it the right way: working hard, working together," said president of basketball operations Joe Dumars, who built the first championship team in Detroit since his playing days. "This isn't a star system we've got here. I just think this is the ultimate team."

Detroit's 100-87 victory in Game 5 Tuesday night ended one of the most surprising NBA Finals in the last half-century -- the triumph of togetherness over talent, collaboration over celebrity.

Richard Hamilton scored 21 points, Ben Wallace had 18 points and 22 rebounds and Chauncey Billups got six assists in the runaway clincher. The Pistons surged ahead together, maintained the lead together and held a long, sweet celebration together.

 
"Nobody gave us a chance, but we felt we had a great chance," said Billups, the finals MVP with 21 points and 5.2 assists per game. "They had Shaq and Kobe, but we just felt we were a better team."

The Pistons won three straight home games to finish off the franchise's first title in 14 seasons, the third in franchise history. These Pistons are more Good Guys than Bad Boys, much less iconic than the star-studded Lakers, but much better friends and teammates.

Detroit is the first champion from the Eastern Conference since Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls in 1998, ending the West's five-year reign over the league with a demonstration of the biggest difference between the conferences: consistent, hard-nosed defense.

"This team is built on defense, everybody knows that," said Wallace, who finished five incredible games of defense on O'Neal, held 10 points below his career NBA Finals average. "They've got a lot of offensive weapons, but we got up in them pretty good."

The clincher was the most one-sided game of a lopsided series, essentially ending when the Pistons made a 17-4 run in the third quarter. Each player got a curtain call of sorts, with Hamilton removing his distinctive clear face mask and pointing at it triumphantly, no longer concerned for his oft-broken nose.

The team announced its Thursday parade schedule with 2:56 to play, drawing more cheers. Owner Bill Davidson was one of the first people on the floor as the confetti fell, celebrating the third championship in eight months for his sports empire -- and nearly getting broken in half by Ben Wallace's hug.

"I always have to be a little careful that I say I like them both equally, but this is a tremendous night," said the 81-year-old billionaire, the Pistons' majority owner since 1974 and owner of the Stanley Cup champion Tampa Bay Lightning and the WNBA champion Detroit Shock.

While his players and their fans celebrated, Brown shook a few hands and slipped away through a side tunnel. Moments after clinching the first championship of his 21-year NBA career, his only reaction was to wipe his face with a handkerchief.

Brown either had tears or sweat in his eyes -- probably a bit of both.

"I haven't, in my life, had disappointments too many times coaching this game," said Brown, the first coach to win titles in the NBA and the NCAA. "I told them before the game, it would be a great statement if we had an opportunity to win, because we do play the right way, and we are truly a team."

The locker room was bedlam, with Lindsey Hunter spraying champagne and Hamilton lighting the room with his smile. Kid Rock's black felt fedora was drenched with bubbly, and so was his stringy blond hair.

There were no stars hanging out with the Lakers, who failed to win a title for carpetbagging veterans Malone and Gary Payton. Malone couldn't even dress for Game 5, sidelined by a painful right knee injury for the first time in 194 career postseason games. It's probably a torn ligament, the Mailman said.

The fallout from this shocking loss won't be felt in Los Angeles for several months, because the Lakers are almost certain to make major changes to a team that was a title favorite both 10 months and two weeks ago.

Coach Phil Jackson said there's only a slim chance he'll return for a sixth season with the Lakers. Bryant, 29-for-86 in the Lakers' four losses, reiterated his plan to opt out of his contract this summer.

"It's going to be a funny summer," O'Neal said. "Everyone's going to take care of their own business, and everyone's going to do what's best for them. I don't know what that entails."

When the Lakers retool, they might want to look at the latest model from Detroit.

"We've probably set a blueprint for how teams are going to start putting their pieces together now," Hunter said. "We're so deep and so good, up and down the roster. Nobody could compete."

[Don Jacob]

^^^^^^^^^

after reading all of that one can conclude that


-shaq did all HE could to help the team win
-kobe bryant did all HE could to help himself win , but came up short MAJORLY
-shaq's performance in the finals eclipsed kobe's in the finals
-when the offense went through shaq they did better
-shaq was not out over the hill, he outperformed the last 3 finals mvp's in 2004
-if shaq was not performing/being lazy....kobe was even more guilty
-the real blame has to be placed  on phil jackson if anyone here because of his decision not to start with shaq, kobe, fox, fisher and george.
-payton didn't show up
-malone couldn't show up
-kobe opting out disrupted things more for the lakers than shaq wanting a contract extention.
-kobe's antics are still disrupting the lakers more than shaq's antics

[GangstaBoogy]

^ I would still take Duncan over Shaq. In 2003 when we were looking for our 4th consecutive title, who showed up put an end to our run for good? Duncan! The guy is amazing. Obviously Shaq was the more dominant one, but Ducan is the better rebounder, shot blocker, defender, free-throw shooter, and more importantly - leader.

[teecee]

^^^^^^^^^

after reading all of that one can conclude that


-shaq did all HE could to help the team win
-kobe bryant did all HE could to help himself win , but came up short MAJORLY
-shaq's performance in the finals eclipsed kobe's in the finals
-when the offense went through shaq they did better
-shaq was not out over the hill, he outperformed the last 3 finals mvp's in 2004
-if shaq was not performing/being lazy....kobe was even more guilty
-the real blame has to be placed  on phil jackson if anyone here because of his decision not to start with shaq, kobe, fox, fisher and george.
-payton didn't show up
-malone couldn't show up
-kobe opting out disrupted things more for the lakers than shaq wanting a contract extention.
-kobe's antics are still disrupting the lakers more than shaq's antics

THat was a brutal series for the Lakers; that series was the one where i quit fucking with Kobe, as he just pissed me off.  Shaq could barely miss, yet there were 5-10 minute stretches where he couldn't get the ball because Kobe, in his own words, was taking shots that "Stunk".    Shaq was great offensively in that series, but it was clear that Kobe wanted to be the man, and failed horribly trying, possibly costing them a championship.  With all that, if the Lakers had to keep Shaq or Kobe at the time, Kobe was the right choice as he is younger.  HOwever, Kobne was a complete bitch in that series, and someone NIK puts the blame on Shaq.  Anyone watching those games knows Shaq had a tought time on Defense, but so did the whole damn team; its pretty hard to put blame on the only guy who showed up for the series, unless you are a serious Kobe dickrider.

Still, Duncan has at least 5 great years left in him; dude is not dependant on his athleticism, just his smarts, so he will play at a higher level longer than Shaq. 

However, Shaq at his very best would MURDER Duncan at his very best;  Duncan would have no answer for a young Shaq in his prime, just as no big in the history of the league would.

[Don Jacob]

^ I would still take Duncan over Shaq. In 2003 when we were looking for our 4th consecutive title, who showed up put an end to our run for good? Duncan! The guy is amazing. Obviously Shaq was the more dominant one, but Ducan is the better rebounder, shot blocker, defender, free-throw shooter, and more importantly - leader.

shaq has duncan's #

yeah and in 04' what happened lol

don't pretend like duncan has shaq's card. shaq has duncan's card when it comes to the playoffs.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^^^^^^^^^

after reading all of that one can conclude that


-shaq did all HE could to help the team win
-kobe bryant did all HE could to help himself win , but came up short MAJORLY
-shaq's performance in the finals eclipsed kobe's in the finals
-when the offense went through shaq they did better
-shaq was not out over the hill, he outperformed the last 3 finals mvp's in 2004
-if shaq was not performing/being lazy....kobe was even more guilty
-the real blame has to be placed  on phil jackson if anyone here because of his decision not to start with shaq, kobe, fox, fisher and george.
-payton didn't show up
-malone couldn't show up
-kobe opting out disrupted things more for the lakers than shaq wanting a contract extention.
-kobe's antics are still disrupting the lakers more than shaq's antics

LMFAO@Kobe opting out "disturbing things"...This proves that you are a Kobe HATER. EVERY superstar opts out of their contract to get the max deal...

Fact of the matter is, Shaq was out of shape, and he could only show up with a dominant performance every OTHER game, and it wasn't enough. Remember the talks around that time of him being too tired to play two good games in a row? Then consider that the offense wasn't running through Kobe (when Phil wanted it to), who was playing amazing basketball at the time. That was the biggest disruption, not Kobe opting out, as you would ridiculously claim...

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^^^^^^^^^

after reading all of that one can conclude that


-shaq did all HE could to help the team win
-kobe bryant did all HE could to help himself win , but came up short MAJORLY
-shaq's performance in the finals eclipsed kobe's in the finals
-when the offense went through shaq they did better
-shaq was not out over the hill, he outperformed the last 3 finals mvp's in 2004
-if shaq was not performing/being lazy....kobe was even more guilty
-the real blame has to be placed  on phil jackson if anyone here because of his decision not to start with shaq, kobe, fox, fisher and george.
-payton didn't show up
-malone couldn't show up
-kobe opting out disrupted things more for the lakers than shaq wanting a contract extention.
-kobe's antics are still disrupting the lakers more than shaq's antics

THat was a brutal series for the Lakers; that series was the one where i quit fucking with Kobe, as he just pissed me off.  Shaq could barely miss, yet there were 5-10 minute stretches where he couldn't get the ball because Kobe, in his own words, was taking shots that "Stunk".    Shaq was great offensively in that series, but it was clear that Kobe wanted to be the man, and failed horribly trying, possibly costing them a championship.  With all that, if the Lakers had to keep Shaq or Kobe at the time, Kobe was the right choice as he is younger.  HOwever, Kobne was a complete bitch in that series, and someone NIK puts the blame on Shaq.  Anyone watching those games knows Shaq had a tought time on Defense, but so did the whole damn team; its pretty hard to put blame on the only guy who showed up for the series, unless you are a serious Kobe dickrider.

Still, Duncan has at least 5 great years left in him; dude is not dependant on his athleticism, just his smarts, so he will play at a higher level longer than Shaq. 

However, Shaq at his very best would MURDER Duncan at his very best;  Duncan would have no answer for a young Shaq in his prime, just as no big in the history of the league would.

No big in the history of the league would have an answer for Shaq? AHAHAHAHA. That's pretty much claiming Shaq was the greatest big ever, which is far from being the real...In the end, yes, Kobe had a worse series with NUMBERS. Shaq, however, is what killed the team overall...If you were following the team at the time, you would know this. Kobe was coming off amazing performances in the playoffs, and the talk around the league was that Shaq was too out of shape to put up 2 good games in a row (which turned out to be true). Somehow, through threats of "not playing defense or rebounding", Shaq got the offense to run through him, despite the fact that Phil thought it was Kobe's turn to run it... It ened up killing us when Ben Wallace shut him down and held him to a few games of under 10 rebounds and under 20 points IN THE FINALS. THATS NOT GOOD WHEN THE OFFENSE IS IN YOUR HANDS...Had Kobe been running the show without a disruptive Shaq, like he shoulda' been, I highly doubt his numbers would have been the same. Shaq failed LA for 2 consecutive years as the boss. After the first 3peat, Kobe shoulda taken over, like Magic did for Kareem. 2003 woulda marked the beginning of the 2nd 3peat under Kobe's reign had Shaq been a tad bit more mature...PeACe

[mrceo]

^^Did you not see that Kobe shot 29 of 86 in the four losses, it's right there clear as crystal, what do you gotta say about that.  Despite getting harassed on defense Shaq still shot fantastic percentages, so they SHOULD have given him the ball more and if Detroit was blocking the passing lanes then Kobe shouldn't have missed so god damn much, don't even trip and say Kobe didn't fuck up, who cares what he did in the Western Conference finals, he didn't do much in the finals, which shows he shoulda just sit down and shut up and let it be Shaq's team for another couple of championships, nuff said