It's May 23, 2024, 09:11:08 AM
We should have a separate thread about the Trinity... since this thread is about something totally different, but just to point something out really quick..."The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one". (Mark 12:29)"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (Mark 10:18)
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.
there is no trinity. There is no mention in the original texts of a trinity.
"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one". (Mark 12:29)"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (Mark 10:18)
^ LOL you didn't refute anything...He said "our God"... if I were to make a statement to one of my classmates that included "our teacher said..." , could that in any logical way imply that I am the teacher? LOL.Let me ask you a simple question... common sense and logic... if A>B, can A=B? Because that's what you would imply if you were to say that Jesus = God after looking at John 14:28 - "My father is greater than I"
Quote from: So Glorious on June 15, 2007, 03:48:23 PMthere is no trinity. There is no mention in the original texts of a trinity.Thank you. Something as important as the trinity would certainly have been mentioned or explained. Not once... I emphasize, not once at all, in the entire bible did Jesus say "I am God" or "Worship me".
SHALLOW: You didn't prove anything. The most you're able to prove is that the Bible is contradicting itself, which I'll agree with. But Jesus still explicitly states that "My father is greater than I". It's logic: if A>B, A cannot in any way = B!Also, I'm glad you pointed out John 14:24 for us - "He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.".... where Jesus once again admits that he is not God.Now let's look further...John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.(He admits that he can't do shit without God. Again, he's not God. God sent him)Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.(When something is given to you, that means it wasn't yours before that... Jesus had no power of his own until it was given to him... who gave it to him? GOD!)
I was talking about this when referring to the point you're trying to prove: "Jesus equates himself to the father here and you can't deny that."And I just pointed out that he claims to be the same in purpose as God, not that he is God... I provided an example to show this:John17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.He obviously doesn't mean that He, God, and all the disciples and people are part of ONE ENTITY... they're ONE IN PURPOSE.That's all I was getting at.... as far as your views towards the religion are concerned, they make sense and I respect them... and I agree... there isn't anything wrong with Jesus' teachings... my whole argument is that Jesus never claimed to be God.
Quote from: J @ M @ L on June 18, 2007, 12:18:35 PMI was talking about this when referring to the point you're trying to prove: "Jesus equates himself to the father here and you can't deny that."And I just pointed out that he claims to be the same in purpose as God, not that he is God... I provided an example to show this:John17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.He obviously doesn't mean that He, God, and all the disciples and people are part of ONE ENTITY... they're ONE IN PURPOSE.That's all I was getting at.... as far as your views towards the religion are concerned, they make sense and I respect them... and I agree... there isn't anything wrong with Jesus' teachings... my whole argument is that Jesus never claimed to be God.Now the "obviously" is my only real issue. There is no "obviously" in the Bible when it comes to most things. If anything was obvious then they're wouldn't be so many rifts with in Christianty.Yes he says the one who sent me is greater than me, but he also says if you have seen me you have seen the father. What all that means exactly is anyone's guess. You can spin it one way and I can spin it another. But you can't deny (not saying that you have) that Jesus puts himself and allows himself to be put above all men. When the gospels talk of apostles worshipping him they don't say that he stopped them from doing so. Now believing that the gospels were re-written is one thing and that's fine but when people claim that the gospels only view him as a normal man who is just another prophet and it was Paul that added to it they are wrong.