how could anyone not say 2pac is the best MC ever?

[Sikotic™]

Thats what Pac claimed on Hit'Em Up. DOn't know if its true or not.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

No, I think she actually admited it...There was pics of them together...Big and her were gunna get divorced and were basically never together right before he died..

[Jay ay Beee]

Naaaa he didn't.
He was just being his usual bigmouth self.
Faith Evans is on All Eyez tho

[Trauma-san]

I Don't Know Who's The Best MC Ever, But I Thought I'd Throw Out A Pac Critisism, And See What Yall Think... Actually 2 Critiques...

1.  If ALL You Do Is Make "deep, Meaningful" Lyrics, Then You Start To Come Off As A Preacher.... ya underdig?

2.  Is It Just Me, But On AT LEAST His Post-Mortem Stuff, Does He, Or Does He Not Use The Exact Same Flow & Rhyme Scheme In Every Song... I've Heard HUNDREDS Of Tupac Songs, Where He Rhymes The Word At The End Of Every 13 Syllable Line, Or Somethin....

Anybody Get What I'm Saying?  For Instance, a Lot Of Rappers (Who Are Talented) Will Switch Their Flow Up... Like Snoop'll Rhyme Straight For A Few Bars, Then Throw In A "I'm Speedin' Up, And Leavin' Um, I'm Buckin' Em Till They Bleedin, Bra".... And Double Time It For A Second... Then He Might Just Say A Line, Then Start Rhyming Again...  It Brings Interest...

Usually, When I Hear A Pac Song, He's Using The Same Voice, Flow, Rhyme Scheme, Everything.  That's Why His Shit's So Easy To Remix And Switch Beats On... He's Not Flowin' With The Beat, he's Just Flowing ON Beat, And Every Verse Can Be Switched With Another One.

Also, On UTEOT, Every Song Has A Bullshit Chorus... For Instance, If The Song Is Called "Lil Homies", What Does That Mean? That Means That Before I Even Hear The Song, I KNOW Pac's Gonna Go "Lil Homies... TAlkin Bout My Lil Homies... It's My Lil Homies... My Motahfuckin' Lil Homies" On The Hook.  If The Song's Called "Letter To My Unborn", Pac's Probably Gon' Be Going "It's A Letter To My Unborn... A Fuckin' Letter To My Unborn... Talkin Bout A Letter To My Unborn" On The Hook...  I'm Not Sure If He Does On Those Songs, I'm Just Saying It To Show My Point....

In Contrast, A Snoop Song - Henn And Buddah... What Does He Say On The Hook?  NOTHING Because There IS NO HOOK... This Fucker's Being Creeative....  He Doesn't Even Say Henn & Buddah In The Song Himself.... Or The Song Ready To Ride... He Says That On The Hook, But Sings It, With A Different Meaning Then You Would Think.... Or The Song "Wrong Idea"... If It Was A Tupac Song, It Would Have Been Called "I'm A Gangsta", But Snoop Keeps It Creative (Not That Pac Doesn't, But I'm Trying To Make A Point)...

But Yall Feel Me?  Pac Was ARGUABLY The Greatest Ever, But He Had Weaknesses That Other MC's Were Better At, He Wasn't The Best In Every Categorie Like Everybody Says.  I'd Say There Were People Better Than Him Lyrically, Better Than Him Flow Wise, Better Than Him Creatively, Etc. But All In All, He Was At The Top....

[King of tha Coast (Guest)]

Pac is for me not the greatest, I think its very annoying how a dead artist have a better chance to be remembered as the greatest then an alive one.

for instance you see people callin Elvis the king or John Lennon a genius, and then you see the same people dissin our nigga MJ, when they know that MJ was somethin that no other artist ( alive or dead ) ever has been close to be.

or what about , how Biggie, Pac and Eazy can be seen as the greatest while Cube or Snoop can't ??

does an artist have to die to get some recognisation ??

[Trauma-san]

THANK YOU, I Feel The Same.  I Try Hard To See The Positive In Artists, While They're Alive... After They Die, I Try To Make Sure I Don't Change The Way I Feel About Them Because Of That, Because It's Bullshit... You're Doing Pac No Favors If You're A Fan Of His After He Died...

Same Shit Went Down With Kurt Cobain, Lead Singer Of Nirvana.  Dude Killed Himself, And Everybody I Know Suddenly Started Acting Like "Oh, He Was So Great"... Well, He WAS Great, But Why Didn't They Say That Before He Was Dead?  

I Can See It Coming, The Day Michael Jackson Dies, It's Gonna Affect The World... People Are Gonna Be Fucked Up That Never Thought They Could Be Fucked Up... Especially After This Mothafucka Turns Shit Upside Down Again In September... He's Got A TV Concert In Mid September, The Album Drops September 25th, And The Tour Starts Next Summer, He's Touring The U.S. Again... Yall DO KNOW This Is His Last Album, Right? All The Bullshit Got To Him, He's Retiring, After He Sets His Name As The Greatest...

John Lennon Was A Genius, Peeps Realized It While He Was Alive, And It Really Fucked Everybody Up When He Died... Sad Thing Is, Paul McCartney Is More Talented Then Lennon Was, And Is Probably ONE Of The Realest People Walking The Earth, And You Never Even Hear People Mention Him...

Tupac Was Great, And Unbelievably Talented, And Alot Of His Fans Knew That When He Was Alive... I Wasn't Ever A Big Fan Of His, So I'm Not Gonna Act Like I Was, And Just Say Good Things About Him Now That He's Dead, That'd Be Doing Him A Disservice...

[Jay ay Beee]

This is all sooo true

Especially the 'better when dead' thing.

[Mr_Loc]

excellent posts as usual Trauma, just gotta throw in my 2 cents (or pence for the uk folks)

i agree Pac did sort of become a preacher, but for me and i know a lot of others it wasnt annoying or patronizing. i always felt he was speaking some real shit

yup his flow was similar on a lot of songs, but i think he felt he had it perfected whereas you could hear everyword and it worked perfectly. plus remember on all that shit when he was at death row, he was working like a madman, just putting songs down constantly. he didnt have time to come up with rhyming tricks or anything, he just wanted to put down what he was feelin

you cant accept any of the 'post-mortem' work as his because a) a lot of those hooks were added after  b) even the originals were unfinished (a lot of them at least), who knows how they wouldve turned out it Pac hadnt died


and what u said about artists getting more love when theyre dead is on point. personally i thought it was pretty sickening to see all these eggheads 'riding' for Pac when they never had acknowledged him prior to sept. 96.


BUT i gotta check you on sumthin    to me lennon and mccartney were an untouchable team, but solo i think lennon had more 'talent'. probably just because i never liked one song from wings, but i loved lennons solo shit. its not necessarily talent tho, im lookin for another word. emotion maybe.
both geniuses tho, dont get me wrong

[Trauma-san]

Yeah, I Gotcha...

That's Why I'm Sayin' It's Not Really Fair To Judge Him On This Leaked Stuff, But I Just Get A Little Peeved When I Hear Peeps Acting Like This New Album Is The Shit When In Reality, In My Opinion, It's Nothing Compared To His Other Stuff... And I See Your Point On His Flow...

I Think McCartney Does Some Goofy Shit Sometimes, That's Just Plain Corny, But He's Got Polished Talent, Like The Ability To Write Prolifically, He's Excellent At Melodies And Harmonies, And He's Very Creative (Never Runs Out Of Ideas)... Lennon Had A Harder Time Writing (According To Peeps In The Know), Didn't Do As Many Albums (Up Till '80, Of Course), Didn't Sell As Much, And One Album Was A Cover Album... Lennon's Best Songs Are Better Than McCartney's Best Songs, Because Lennon WAS More Emotional In His Songs, That's True...

So, I'm Just Saying McCartney's More Talented In Pretty Much Every Area, But That Doesn't Mean Lennon Didn't Sound Better, etc.  The Thing That Gets Me Is That People LOVE Lennon, Never Mention McCartney, And In Reality Musically McCartney Was More Talented...

Whew!

[Sikotic™]

Preacher?? Alot of rappers preach. Whats wrong with that anyways. Thats what I liked about Pac. He has that flow where you can understand everything he says. He didn't have to make up words all the time like alot of peeps today.

Sure he had the same flow all the time and that was his weakness. What rapper doesn't have a weakness. He had some dope ass choruses back in the day too. Of course they ain't gonna be good on UTEOT. He had nothin to do with them. Thats the producers fault.

I understand how y'all feel about sayin how great a person was after they died. For example, when Princess Diana died the whole world was morning for her and calling her a angel. They were cryin sayin how amazing she was. A few months before she was in tabloids about how she is sleepin with this guy and walkin around nude and now she is a angel and a SAINT?My question is WHAT THE FUCK DID SHE DO THAT WAS SO SPECIAL!. Sure she went to help kids in Africa that were victims of land mines but she always went back to her wonderful house at the end of the day.

A little while later Mother Theresa passes away and do you see as many people morn for her? But she was a great person. Instead of helping people and going home later she lived with the poor and sick. She didn't have to do that. PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY FORGOTTEN ABOUT HER! She is a true saint, not Di.

Sorry I went off into a tangent but my point is that alot of people thought Pac was great. People were claiming he was one of the best before his death.

I would never say 2pac was THE best because you can't say that. There are so many kinds of rappers that you can't say who is the best. We can settle though that he was one of the best.

Damn I wrote too much LOL.

[cremedelaclem]

WHOAH!

im feeling everyones points of view and i can symphasize with all y'all opinions....

i think pac is the best rapper so far....

he was BY NO MEANS the best lyricist, battle rhymer, freestyler, and he had none of the kinda b boy qualitys associated with hip hop music and culture...

HOWEVER...he took this shit to a whole new level and he deserves all the props he gets.....

it just pisses me off how peeps can come on here and call biggie notorious P.I.G or whatever and say how they really wasnt feeling big's shit at all or whatever. If people can drop a comment as disrespectful as something like that towards biggie then why do i get blasted on for saying "pac often contradicted himself from song to song" i mean, biggies just as dead as pac, you know?

i loved 2pacs music, but people need to realise that (even tho he claimed it) pac wasnt immortal, and his life wasnt without mistakes....im sorry but it just frustrates me when these kids on the net n shit refuse to acknwledge that 2pac wasnt perfect.

of course people appreciate people whove died more......you donty know what youve got till its gone....you feel me?

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

I might get hated on, but when BIG was alive, I was feelin him more than Pac...Now they are equal to me...

[M Dogg™]

Interesting.

All I know was before 'Pac was killed, Peoples around my parts were calling him the greatest after All Eyez On Me dropped. Not one person didn't have it, and I myself thought that Me Against the World was the one that put him over.

As for flows, and stuff like that, 'Pac had a very unique flow of his own that everybody and their mommas copy. Though it is a very simple flow, it works. I guess though, what makes 'Pac the greatest is he worked harder on his stuff than anybody, except maybe Dre. 'Pac was a workaholic, and if people begain saying 'Pacs waked because of this, trust me, he'd come out a do what needs to be done. And for creativity, to be honest, that's what older artist do when they feel their style is getting stale. 'Pac wasn't giving that oppertunity to go stale alive, and it took awhile or Snoop to change.

[Trauma-san]

Point Taken About The Stale Style Stuff, True, True...

And I Agree That The Single Greatest Thing About Pac Was His Work Ethic...

[cremedelaclem]

its dope how a thread like this where people have different opinions on a lot of things can get this far and no ones beefin......thats why i love this forum