Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Would anyone else feel differently bout joining the military if Obama was prez?
J Bananas:
All I got to say is don't join the military if you're looking to make money. They line of shit they sell you is indeed a line of shit.
And joining purely on his race and ethnic background makes you look like a misguided self hating racist.
Narrator:
--- Quote from: virtuoso on May 21, 2008, 11:48:29 AM ---I agree with what you have just said but "They" simply referred to the military and when i say they have turned them into monsters, you have to look at the torture being instigated in the prisons which was taught to them by the CIA instructors, that is after all what the reports conclude into the torture, they are not the acts of individuals but systematic torture whose techniques have been taught to them by experts in that field. I was referring to turning soldiers into monsters because despite the stresses and strains which the soldiers have already born the brunt of, they then make things ten times worse for them by forcing them to stay on the tour much longer, or forcing them to go back, extending the number of tours they have done. Finally when their commanders tell them everyone is an enemy and so to ascertain all enemies are dead, that you must kill everyone regarding of age and gender, then clearly they are turned into monsters.
You make a good point the savagery and horrors of vietnam were beyond words but this is much worse now because while these events and incidents were deplored, now they are justified and the perfect example being the torture, the response was well so what torture has always been a part of the dirty side of the game. That completely misses the bigger point, by justifying torture in such a public manner, it starts the torrid slippery slope into which morality is waved goodbye as it drowns under the weight of such depravity.
--- End quote ---
Do you think this has EVER been any different? Every Western country in the world has these kinds of skeletons. The only thing is, some are better covered up than others. This is certainly no worse than Vietnam. The "stop-loss" policy you are referring to is not a result of an evil conspiracy; it's a result of the fact that we really don't have a viable solution to dealing with insurgencies yet, besides throwing lots of troops into the mix until a compromise between the factions (Badr Shi'a vs. Sadr Shi'a vs. Sunni vs. Kurds vs. whoever else), which, in the case of Iraq, is pretty much impossible.
Really, the conspiracy theories just don't make sense, no matter how much Prison Planet stuff you may read convincing you otherwise. The U.S. government has always been evil, but since Bush, the main difference is that the government has become evil and incompetent. Like going from truly fascist-type evil to something more like Dr. Evil-type evil. If the Bush administration were really as incredibly calculating, vicious, and intelligent as you believe, they would actually have a lid on this type of shit. What do you think Hitler or Stalin would have done with restless minorities? Do you really think they'd torture a handful of prisoners here and there to extract info and have the troops massacre a village here and there? Read about dekulakization and then you'll have an idea.
virtuoso:
I already know about dekulakisation, having read the book harvest of sorrow you are assuming too many things. It is you who is talking about "conspiracy theories" i am only talking on what is actually happening not on speculation. You completely and utterly missed the point things are worse now because unlike stalin, who was referred to as the compassionate uncle joe, now it's justifying torture, the bolsheviks never openly talked about what they were doing.
Now if you wanted to look at the actual conspiracy in Iraq in particular, it was disbanding all institutions and creating the fake photos, the fake stories of Al Queda connections, the weapons of mass destruction. Therefore I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, if you wish me to address something, you could make it a little more direct.
Also while we are on the subject of conspiracies, the PNAC document Rebuilding Americas Defences is a conspiracy is it not? and for all of this dismissive talk I bet you haven't once read it have you?
Narrator:
--- Quote from: virtuoso on May 23, 2008, 12:50:10 PM ---
I already know about dekulakisation, having read the book harvest of sorrow you are assuming too many things. It is you who is talking about "conspiracy theories" i am only talking on what is actually happening not on speculation. You completely and utterly missed the point things are worse now because unlike stalin, who was referred to as the compassionate uncle joe, now it's justifying torture, the bolsheviks never openly talked about what they were doing.
Now if you wanted to look at the actual conspiracy in Iraq in particular, it was disbanding all institutions and creating the fake photos, the fake stories of Al Queda connections, the weapons of mass destruction. Therefore I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, if you wish me to address something, you could make it a little more direct.
Also while we are on the subject of conspiracies, the PNAC document Rebuilding Americas Defences is a conspiracy is it not? and for all of this dismissive talk I bet you haven't once read it have you?
--- End quote ---
I've heard it and I know what it's about, but no, I have never read it.
You call that a "conspiracy"? It was anything but. Anyone who has ever read an encyclopedia article about Iraq knew that (1.) Saddam was a secular Baa'thist who was hated by the Sunni Islamists like Osama (not to mention the Sadrists and Badrists whom he had repressed for years), and (2.) The infrastructure for Saddam's WMD program had pretty much been smashed but that he needed people to THINK he still had it for domestic security (i.e. the way he put down the Kurds in 1988). You may also recall around April-May of 2003, Bush's people were also trying to get public support for military operations against Syria because they were claiming Saddam had fled there and might have stashed the WMDs there (which is more bullshit, because the Syrian branch of the Baa'thist Party have had a rivalry with the Iraqi branch for many decades now).
Did Bush take advantage of the fact that most Americans are dumb fucking Baptist redneck morons who think every Arab government is an "Islamic fundamentalist" regime? Yes. But is that a "conspiracy"? No. It's not a "conspiracy" when you're spouting nonsense that is easily discredited by 5 minutes of Internet research. Unfortunately, you seem to have this idea that nobody but you is capable of reading conspiracy sites online, so therefore, it's somehow a "conspiracy" when our notoriously retarded president thinks he's going to get away with lying and/or exaggerating facts in public.
I also don't know what you're talking about with the Bolsheviks because they openly talked of needing to cleanse "counter-revolutionary" elements and loved to incite people to rally violently against them. You cannot legitimately compare the American government to the Bolsheviks or Nazis because the level of cleansing is not at all comparable. When the U.S. and Iraqi Armies go into Sadr City, round up the entire population, and place them in concentration camps in order to weed out the insurgents...that's when you'd have something comparable.
virtuoso:
I give up lol you haven;t ever read the document and yet you dismiss a bigger conspiring against the frigging world not alone the people. I never said anything about an extermination policy akin to the bolsheviks either, I said and I repeat, there has NEVER been a time where openly governments are trying to sell people that torture is a good thing. Yes I do call a a conspiracy to create lies which leads to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, yes I call it a conspiracy to disband every government institution knowing the chaos it would bring.
I am done responding to you when you have never even read the central think tank document to this all though, so keep ranting about me being a "conspiracy theorist" if you like, it really doesn't matter.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version