Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Chomsky on Pornography
Turf Hitta:
The "degradation of women" argument never made sense to me. First, they are there because they want to be and they are for the most part all doing things they already do. Is it degrading if I get some head from my woman and then fuck her in multiple positions? What if we film it? And why is nobody taking issue with the way men are viewed as sex objects on these very same videos? Where is the "PORN DEGRADES MEN!!" crowds bitching about it? Sounds like a double standard.
7even:
--- Quote from: *Z* - The Queen of Dubcc on August 15, 2008, 12:56:06 PM ---ive never said you guys are wrong.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: *Z* - The Queen of Dubcc on August 15, 2008, 07:14:01 AM ---excuse me, but yes youre wrong
--- End quote ---
Huh?
--- Quote ---i cant favour porn that denigrades a man/woman
--- End quote ---
Oh really? So now we limit it; depending on type of porn, just what I said in my very first post, that you boldly argued against.... don't we?
--- Quote from: *Z* - The Queen of Dubcc on August 15, 2008, 05:50:12 AM ---
--- Quote from: 7even on August 15, 2008, 05:43:27 AM ---How is regular pornography humiliation and degradation of women? I'm serious, I don't understand why people feel this way. Of course there are types of porn that obviously are that way, but I never, ever was able to understand how normal porn in principle is considered to be just that.
--- End quote ---
becuz it seriously is just that. i mean what else are the women who perform in pornographical videos or photos? they are simply sex objects. nobody who is sane and realizes that women are humanbeings can be in favour of that. these women are used, most of them are too naive, in need of money or/and ignorant to realize that aint that reason enough to be against pornography?
-for me it is
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: *Z* - The Queen of Dubcc on August 15, 2008, 11:26:14 AM ---
--- Quote from: 7even on August 15, 2008, 07:47:11 AM ---That is, with all due respect, completely delusional. Not all women are like you (want to be), get over it.
--- End quote ---
ok stop catching feelings...youre right if you say that there are pornstars who do it "out of choice/pleasure"and in my opinion it is humiliation, if you sell your body, well its just the way i see it and thats why im not in favour of that biz.
as u admitted and this is my primary concern that there are women(men of course too.my bad i focused too much on women)teenagers etc who get abused in this business and in my oppinion this business calls for it. chomsky may seem very conservative in this regard and may not have a lot to do with pornography but i understand where he is coming from and why he doesnt support it. im not in favour of forbidding this or fighting against it either-we live in a free society dont we`? but im concerned about the im pact it socially and culturally has.
--- End quote ---
How am I catching feelings.. I've been polite, lady. Maybe I should have put a "them" between "want" and "to", but I liked the ambiguity :D
I agree with the men in this thread ;)
*Z* - The Queen of Dubcc:
ok first you took things completely out of context quoting me, somewhat this is typical to this forum.
--- Quote ---excuse me, but yes youre wrong
*being used for something wasnt meant as being used in general
but being used for very low reasons:
those are:
a) putting men socially and culturally on a highler level: as someone who has control
over the woman. (...)
--- End quote ---
excuse me but
--- Quote ---yes youre wrong
--- End quote ---
was a response to you saying: excuse me if im wrong but are these the points of your argument?
--> my "you are wrong" refered to the arguments you listed as my arguments like: "women dont have any free will" etc.
okay there are two points i argued: (next time i have an argument with you i will structure it and add footnotes)
-Pornography is to me overall degrading, becuz in my opinion (that is FOR ME PERSONALLY) it is degrading to be semiotically turned into a sex-object and robbed of humanity publically
-my second point is critisizing the entire business (im not talking about amateur videos, cuz this falls under my first point)
which promotes an image of a woman as sex-objects (in some gay-porn the image of a man most likely too, but you must admit that porn with women as the central objects is more wide spread)
which leads in its business competition to slavery and humen-trade in some areas of this world.
thats what i feel negative about. thats why i DONT SUPPORT the pornographical business.
of course you agree with the men in this thread becuz this is the generally accepted point of view which is unsurprisingly encouraged by this business.
Australian Bastard:
Dammit why dosn't anybody read my shit!!? Me. Me. Me. Me.
7even:
Z, if porn is always degrading to you, why would you say "you can't be in favour of porn that degrades people" ... That's like saying "I can't stand water that is wet"
Anyways... since you categorically label all porn degrading; this is no longer up for debate anymore... as in saying, if, to me, all porn was that way I wouldn't be in favour of it either. Since it's not, I am. But since you won't put the question whether it is or isn't up for debate anymore, I'm done talking.
--- Quote from: Ra's al Overfiend on August 16, 2008, 03:53:26 AM --- Dammit why dosn't anybody read my shit!!? Me. Me. Me. Me.
--- End quote ---
I read your shit, what makes you think that I didn't? I simply won't quote such a long post and say "I basically agree"... well anyways, here's something I don't entirely agree with, since you asked for it:
--- Quote ---Chomsky is being positive in his analysis, that is; descriptive (he would have zero academic credibility otherwise and would not be employed at any university if he just preached normative babble).
Now, in third world countries, the choices faced for women at low end of the economic demographic is either sweat-shop or sex-trade (voluntarily but more often than not, involuntarily). And the fact is its desperation out of poverty.
Another fact is:
The UNICEF estimates every child on the PLANET could be fed, housed, clothed and educated and kept WELL for $30 billion to $40 billion (US dollars) more than is currently being spent.
Incidentally,
In 2002 the US military budget amounted to $379 billion (US dollars). Chalmers Johnson estimates $1 trilllion for fiscal year 2008.
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have too much...
...it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."
- Franklin Delano Roosevelt
--- End quote ---
Well, you are a nice guy and give this old nigga the benefit of the doubt. I, however, do think that he in fact would think it be a great thing to do; bettering the conditions and shit.
I mean one question is "How should we..." isn't that as normative as it can get?
First, it is of course incredibly ignorant to act as if porn was only produced in third world countries. You can't be serious.
Next, you can't solve structural problems with individual goody-good doing.
Also, if you dispise sweat shops, porn, prostitution and shit, what is your solution to make thise conditions better? White people giving them mad scrilla? Is that your solution to all the problems in the world? Ridiculous.
This guy is so self-righteous that I almost feel like breaking his face. Comparing porn stars to starving children in slums who get abused in exchange for food. How is that smart?
The overall tactic that is used here is to simply pick the worst of the worst, then compare it to something that is completely different and a lot worse. Overall, the third world is simply a terrible place. It's no surprise that things like the sex business are terrible over there. That, however, is no argument that videos like the one I linked are disgraceful and inhuman or something.
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