Raphael Saadiq: Soul For Real (new dx interview)

[Elano]

HipHopDX: On the Ray Ray album, you shot this blaxploitation styled cover art before you recorded any music. The Way I See It has a picture of your performance at Sweet's Ballroom. How important is it to you to have that visual as you're going into an album?
Raphael Saadiq: You know it just kind of happened like that a couple times. I tried to do the cover afterwards, but it didn’t work like that. I took that picture, and I tried to take more pictures of what I wanted to do. This one just fit. But it’s very important to me to get that whole feel before I get started.

DX: Your entire album was streamed on MySpace the day before it was officially released. Odyssey Records in New Orleans also did a ladies only listening session for the album back in July. What are your thoughts how this album was worked versus the traditional methods?
Raphael Saadiq: It’s definitely a different climb, and things are done a lot differently now. You’ve got to hustle harder, you know? It’s really tough times for everybody, but you’ve got to get out there in the trenches and really work your record.

DX: In line with that, you released Ray Ray through your Pookie Entertainment label. What did you take away from that experience?
Raphael Saadiq: It kind of got me ready for the way the industry is right now. Being on a major is almost like being independent now. [Laughs] They’ve gotta grind the same way I did independently. So I was ready because of the independent experience I had.

DX: On this album you worked with Paul Riser and Jack Ashford, who played a huge part in the Motown sound. Motown took a lot of heat for what some people thought was watering down black music to make it more palatable to the mainstream.
Raphael Saadiq: I thought about that, but people don’t think that now. [Laughs] Not after watching that Temptations movie. They were more hood than anybody.

DX: As someone who is critically acclaimed but criminally slept-on in terms of sales, did making your sound more accessible play into choosing to cover material from that era?
Raphael Saadiq: Nah, man. I don’t think about no awards. I mean, if I get them, I get them. I feel like when I make the music that I really love, I’ve already won the award. To make that music and go back and listen to it is rewarding. All my awards aren’t really here with me anyway. I ain’t trying to break my awards out in front of people or anything like that. If it happens like that, I’m cool with it. I’m not gonna force the issue.

DX: Understood. But, suppose you remove the Grammy’s and all that stuff. I know this is a taboo word, but what about crossing-over to a broader fan base?
Raphael Saadiq: Right, right, right. I definitely want more people to hear it, but I want people to get that experience. I want them to be able to feel it like my core audience and my band I put together. It’s really about the experience of playing places and just making history in the way we know it’s made. History is made by people meeting and coming together for a cohesive project where everybody finds their lane inside of it. There’s a whole lot more to it. I came up at a time when it was about the music, the show and other things than just putting out a record.

DX: During the time you came up in, there were a lot of social issues that influenced the music. How would you compare those to some of the things that inspire today’s music?
Raphael Saadiq: I think Hip Hop is more in the vein of what was going on in the '60s and '70s. [In Hip Hop] people kind of get together and they know they’re coming out of—not necessarily battling anymore—but coming out to one event to make the best out of it. I don’t think R&B is like that anymore. It’s more like wanting to make a song or a video. I think Hip Hop cats are more about trying to get their paper at shows. They know they have to make records that are good enough to put out and perform in front of people. With R&B I don’t see that. They’re more concerned with what the video will look like, as opposed to how the song is going to make you feel.

DX: Yeah, and there also seems to be this huge gap between the older R&B generation and the current Hip Hop crowd. After working with Snoop, Ludacris, DJ Quik and Q-Tip, it’s pretty safe to say you haven’t been affected by that.
Raphael Saadiq: Coming from doing talent shows and stuff, there were always so many different types of people I was in competition with. Somebody might have been tap-dancing, and another person might have been rapping. Then over on the other side, someone might’ve been juggling balls or something. I was always around so many different types of cats, that I never looked at it thinking I was restricted to the R&B world.
Every time I saw an emcee they would be like, “Yo, yo, son. I don’t usually be listening to no R&B singers, but I fucks with you.” I’ve gotten that so many times in my career, because they can feel it. They can tell that I’m not just an R&B cat. I’m worldwide with the ears—from the most rugged, dirty Hip Hop on down. I mean, I mess with Devin The Dude . Devin isn’t like some real big southern rapper, but he’s one of the dopest to me. I just like the people I like.
It’s not as if I’m trying to be some hard, edgy R&B singer when I get around rappers. I don’t give a shit about being around no rappers. I grew up in East Oakland where it was hardcore. I ain’t gotta go nowhere and try to be hard. I grew up hard. It’s all about the music. I’ve worked with people, where gangsters try to come in and muscle you. I’m like, “Dude, back up!” If I wanted to be a gangster, I could have been a gangster. But, I play music, and I love music. Music makes people feed good, and I’m going to continue to do what I do best. If I tried anything else, I could try it with people like Ludacris , A Tribe Called Quest , Quik, T.I. or whoever. They allow me to step into their world and then come back into mine. That’s why I like to work with so many different people. I love what I do, and I’m going to do what I want to do. If I want to switch it up, I can work with people I like in a field that’s a little outside of what I normally do.

DX: One of your biggest collaborations came when Tony! Toni! Toné! made “Let’s Get Down” with DJ Quik. I’m curious as to how you hooked up, because it initially seemed like a really weird pairing?
Raphael Saadiq: That goes back to my Hip Hop background. It doesn’t matter what you do. If I like it, I can always lend myself to it and bring my best into it. Look at what Kanye [West] did with T-Pain . A lot of musician cats don’t like T-Pain because he’s not really singing. But, they love Kanye, and Kanye twisted the whole game up with that T-Pain record ["Good Life"]. That’s how I can jump and grab someone like Quik and say, “Hey, let’s make a record.” At that time, it was perfect, because we were always doing up-tempo club songs. Quik was on the west coast, and I knew he was someone we could musically collaborate with. That was definitely my idea.

DX: One your collaborators this time around was Stevie Wonder on “Never Gonna Give You Up.” Could you explain how you two came together after that 1 a.m. phone call?
Raphael Saadiq: I was going to call him and leave a message, but he picked up the phone instead. So, we have our little exchange.
“What’s up fool?”
“What’s up fool?”
“Yo, I need you to come and play on this song. I need you real bad.”
“When?
“In about an hour.”
He ended up coming right over, and I was like, “Thank God.” Of course, he murdered it. Even when I go back and listen to it now, I’m just like, “Wow.” I think that probably made up for all the Christmas gifts I didn’t get when I was a kid. That’s probably the biggest gift right there. Plus he’s nonstop with the jokes.

DX: In addition to Stevie, you’ve shouted out people such as Shuggie Otis, Howlin’ Wolf and Holland-Dozier-Holland at Invictus Records. How much do you think being a student of the game factors in to being successful?
Rapheal Saadiq: I think it’s very important. You get it by watching, listening and keeping your eyes open. Listening to and loving the game will teach you what and what not to do.
I’m not saying I did everything right. I probably could’ve been a more aggressive hustler, but I was more into the art side of it. I’m still that way. But, yeah, being a student of the game is definitely important. You’ve got to know when to be in the room, when to say something and when not to say anything. All of that stuff is important.
I try to tell these artists you can’t be mad. There are artists like me, or some that are older, and they want to talk bad about a new artist. I’m like, “You can’t do that. That’s out of bounds. [Laughs]. I don’t care. That’s out of bounds.” Think about Earth Wind & Fire—they didn’t talk [negatively] about me, but they could’ve. [Tony! Toni! Toné!] was good, but we didn’t make that Gratitude album. We know that. But they didn’t come out and say, “Look at these cats. They ain’t doing nothing.” Everybody has their own thing. The biggest thing I try to tell cats today is to embrace this life. Somebody could be out here pulling a gun on your mother. Be happy that you have the privilege to go in the studio and record a song. Let them do what they do, because everyone has their own destination.
I ask a lot of new artists, “Where do you want to be at in 21 years?” If you’re just doing this for a hobby until you get another hustle or another job, then do what you do. If you want to be in this for the long run, then you need to try to make some jeans that are going to be around for awhile like Levi’s.

DX: As someone who has “made those Levi’s,” so to speak, your career has followed a very natural arc. You started at home and in church, right?
Raphael Saadiq: Yeah, exactly.

DX: And initially with Tony! Toni! Toné! you played bass in the background.
Raphael Saadiq: Yeah, my brother [D’Wayne Wiggins] was the lead singer, and I kind of got pushed into that position. After doing it, I kind of had to put it all together and make it work. There were groups out there like Guy, with dudes who could really sing. I wasn’t a balladeer type of person, but we had to pull it together really quick.

DX: I read that early on you had to sneak the family instruments out of the house to get into talent shows.
Raphael Saadiq: Yeah. My mother didn’t want me to take them to school because they could get damaged, stolen or whatever. But, I had to do this show, so I just brought them to school. I came home and got an ass-whooping, but I still snuck them out again the next day. I won the talent show, so I made sure to bring that trophy home. I damn near had to bring the whole school to my house to make sure I didn’t get beat again. I was like, “Hold on. Wait, wait, wait.” I couldn’t take another one of those heavy hands, so I had the principal, the counselor and about four teachers with me. They’re telling my mother I won the talent show, and she’s sitting there still not smiling. [Laughs] I’m standing there with like a half-smile on my face going, “Ain’t you happy for me?” She finally broke down, smiled and said, “Yeah, I guess.” It was such a relief. I was just like, “Whoo!”

DX: Following your career, it took a long time to reveal those kinds of stories. It seems that you didn’t really get personal until that intro on Instant Vintage. Do you have a lot of reservations about what to put out there and what to keep to yourself?
Raphael Saadiq: Yeah, I kind of keep things to myself. I put that on there because it was sort of introducing people to me. I was really giving my family a shout-out too. I don’t think any of us dealt with it…at least, not together. They probably bugged out that I did that on the album. I wanted to let people know you can still write about something good even if you’ve been through a lot of bad. I’ve been through a lot of bad.

DX: Given your family ties in Louisiana, did you have to put a lot of thought into doing “Big Easy” or was that another spur of the moment thing?
Raphael Saadiq: It was kind of spur of the moment. I was watching When the Levees Broke, and I’ve got some family out there. I was just watching it and playing some music at the same time. They got to that part where this guy is getting on a boat to Houston to see his [displaced] family. I almost can’t even talk about that…it’s crazy. So that’s what made me write a song about the Big Easy.

DX: And obviously there’s still fallout from Katrina, Gustav and Ike too. But let’s leave it on a less somber note. The music of the 60’s and 70’s is often associated with the movies of that era. As a fellow blaxploitation fan, what are some of your favorite movies from that era?
Raphael Saadiq: Of course The Mack. They filmed that in Oakland…Black Shampoo and all of those real movies. Goldie was like Michael Jordan in everybody’s hood. I’ve turned a lot of young cats on to Goldie and they always bug out saying they’ve never seen it. I’m always like, “Are y’all serious?”

[Sofa_King_Awesome]

Props. Good read

[Black Excellence]

great read.