Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Former WWE Wrestler "Test" found dead...
Sikotic™:
--- Quote from: Shallow on March 15, 2009, 08:26:45 AM ---
--- Quote from: Halu Sination on March 14, 2009, 11:40:39 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on March 14, 2009, 11:16:32 PM ---
--- Quote from: Halu Sination on March 14, 2009, 11:08:50 PM ---Test did look ridiculously roided up in his final run with the WWE.
I know it's unfair to blame steroids every single time, but you have to admit, that does seem to be the common denominator amongst all of these wrestlers who recently passed away. Depending on how badly they abused it, being clean for a couple years isn't going to reverse all of the side effects that it could take on someone's health.
Nevertheless, R.I.P. to the man who never got to marry Stephanie McMahon.
--- End quote ---
The common denominator is steroids + pain killers + roofies + coke + heroin + alcohol + sleeping pills + whatever the fuck else you can think of. Take steroids out of that list and these guys still end up dead.
--- End quote ---
Not Eddie, or anyone else who was clean for several years. His enlarged heart complications was a result of steroid abuse. Most the other shit you listed, despite all having horrible long-term effects, isn't going to destroy your heart like that in a fatal manner when you've been staying away from it for so long.
It just so happens that a lot of these other guys who passed away in the past couple years weren't clean of everything when they died, so the steroids gets mixed into all the other shit that they've done.
--- End quote ---
If what you are saying is true then the body building world would have a much higher body count than wrestling. Where are the dead bodybuilders?
--- Quote from: King Sikotic II on March 15, 2009, 12:05:22 AM ---I hate when people blame McMahon. He didn't make Test take shit. He choose to do all of that. People need to take more responsibility for their own actions.
--- End quote ---
McMahon chose in the 80s to create a product that promotes a wrestler with a certain physique. McMahon chose to sell these hulking muscle men to children. McMahon chose to do everything but personal sell the steroids to wrestlers. McMahon chose to put guys on the road 300 days a year with out paying for their travel or shelter. The wrestlers chose to go through with it. That's their own fault. It doesn't change the fact that McMahon is a slimy cunt.
There are only two men that could have stopped McMahon from running the business the way he did, Hogan the night before Wrestlemania 3 and Austin the night before Wrestlemania 17. Either of those men at those times could have made a list of demands for the entire company and told McMahon to sign or they don't show for Mania. Both of those men were told by peers at the time that they can do it. Both of those men refused to. So it's not any more Vince's fault than it is Hogan's or Austin's.
At the end of the day McMahon is a circus man. He preys on the stupid and uses them for his act and when he doesn't need them any more he throws them away. He's nothing like his father, and when Vince himself isn't around to praise his own name no one else is going to do it. He single-handedly destroyed the wrestling business and he doesn't even know it yet.
--- End quote ---
You usually make complete sense, but I'm really gonna have to respectively disagree with you on this one. You really think Hogan and Austin were able to predict the magnitude of their success back before they ever reached it? Let me try to think from the perspective you would of liked Hogan or Austin to have: you have been hand picked by the owner of your company to be its new star. You've busted your ass night in and night out, broke bones, sacrificed your health and family living on the road, and right when it is all about to pay off........you tell your boss you refuse to have the torch passed on to you until you and your buddies get additional compensation? I'm I'm not mistaken, the man formerly known as Jim Hellwig a.k.a. The Ultimate Warrior made similar demands back when he was red hot and after wards never reached the amount of success he previously had again. Anyone who was put in the same situation as Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin or The Rock would be a complete dumbass to risk their opportunity for the good of everyone else.
You can call Vince a cunt, an asshole, a selfish man....whatever you want, however, those are all the qualities of a good businessman. He was simply giving the people what they wanted in the 80's with the muscular physiques and over the top personalities. Let's not forget that there were plenty of territories/promotions at that time like the AWA and NWA that offered amazing wrestling and ring psychology, but Vince provided something different and unique that attracted the attention of the fans. And just like he never forced a fan by gunpoint to watch his programming and order his pay-per-views, he never force fed pills or steroids to any of his performers. They did it because they knew what the fans wanted and they knew that if they didn't give the fans what they wanted (or what Vince thought the fans wanted) then they would remain on the bottom of the barrel or get fired.
And being the great capitalist that Vince is, his mission as a businessman was always to eliminate the competition....yes, even ECW. He knew they would never take over his empire, that's why he allowed some of his talent to work for ECW and vice versa. Did that kill the business? Hell yeah it did. I don't blame Vince for killing all of his competition, however, I do blame him for not making the most at such a golden opportunity i.e. the Invasion angle. Now that Vince is in complete control, he has no reason to listen to the fans, but once again the fans will eventually become fed up and stop watching. Then and only then will the business become successful again.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: King Sikotic II on March 15, 2009, 09:19:20 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on March 15, 2009, 08:26:45 AM ---
--- Quote from: Halu Sination on March 14, 2009, 11:40:39 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on March 14, 2009, 11:16:32 PM ---
--- Quote from: Halu Sination on March 14, 2009, 11:08:50 PM ---Test did look ridiculously roided up in his final run with the WWE.
I know it's unfair to blame steroids every single time, but you have to admit, that does seem to be the common denominator amongst all of these wrestlers who recently passed away. Depending on how badly they abused it, being clean for a couple years isn't going to reverse all of the side effects that it could take on someone's health.
Nevertheless, R.I.P. to the man who never got to marry Stephanie McMahon.
--- End quote ---
The common denominator is steroids + pain killers + roofies + coke + heroin + alcohol + sleeping pills + whatever the fuck else you can think of. Take steroids out of that list and these guys still end up dead.
--- End quote ---
Not Eddie, or anyone else who was clean for several years. His enlarged heart complications was a result of steroid abuse. Most the other shit you listed, despite all having horrible long-term effects, isn't going to destroy your heart like that in a fatal manner when you've been staying away from it for so long.
It just so happens that a lot of these other guys who passed away in the past couple years weren't clean of everything when they died, so the steroids gets mixed into all the other shit that they've done.
--- End quote ---
If what you are saying is true then the body building world would have a much higher body count than wrestling. Where are the dead bodybuilders?
--- Quote from: King Sikotic II on March 15, 2009, 12:05:22 AM ---I hate when people blame McMahon. He didn't make Test take shit. He choose to do all of that. People need to take more responsibility for their own actions.
--- End quote ---
McMahon chose in the 80s to create a product that promotes a wrestler with a certain physique. McMahon chose to sell these hulking muscle men to children. McMahon chose to do everything but personal sell the steroids to wrestlers. McMahon chose to put guys on the road 300 days a year with out paying for their travel or shelter. The wrestlers chose to go through with it. That's their own fault. It doesn't change the fact that McMahon is a slimy cunt.
There are only two men that could have stopped McMahon from running the business the way he did, Hogan the night before Wrestlemania 3 and Austin the night before Wrestlemania 17. Either of those men at those times could have made a list of demands for the entire company and told McMahon to sign or they don't show for Mania. Both of those men were told by peers at the time that they can do it. Both of those men refused to. So it's not any more Vince's fault than it is Hogan's or Austin's.
At the end of the day McMahon is a circus man. He preys on the stupid and uses them for his act and when he doesn't need them any more he throws them away. He's nothing like his father, and when Vince himself isn't around to praise his own name no one else is going to do it. He single-handedly destroyed the wrestling business and he doesn't even know it yet.
--- End quote ---
You usually make complete sense, but I'm really gonna have to respectively disagree with you on this one. You really think Hogan and Austin were able to predict the magnitude of their success back before they ever reached it? Let me try to think from the perspective you would of liked Hogan or Austin to have: you have been hand picked by the owner of your company to be its new star. You've busted your ass night in and night out, broke bones, sacrificed your health and family living on the road, and right when it is all about to pay off........you tell your boss you refuse to have the torch passed on to you until you and your buddies get additional compensation? I'm I'm not mistaken, the man formerly known as Jim Hellwig a.k.a. The Ultimate Warrior made similar demands back when he was red hot and after wards never reached the amount of success he previously had again. Anyone who was put in the same situation as Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin or The Rock would be a complete dumbass to risk their opportunity for the good of everyone else.
You can call Vince a cunt, an asshole, a selfish man....whatever you want, however, those are all the qualities of a good businessman. He was simply giving the people what they wanted in the 80's with the muscular physiques and over the top personalities. Let's not forget that there were plenty of territories/promotions at that time like the AWA and NWA that offered amazing wrestling and ring psychology, but Vince provided something different and unique that attracted the attention of the fans. And just like he never forced a fan by gunpoint to watch his programming and order his pay-per-views, he never force fed pills or steroids to any of his performers. They did it because they knew what the fans wanted and they knew that if they didn't give the fans what they wanted (or what Vince thought the fans wanted) then they would remain on the bottom of the barrel or get fired.
And being the great capitalist that Vince is, his mission as a businessman was always to eliminate the competition....yes, even ECW. He knew they would never take over his empire, that's why he allowed some of his talent to work for ECW and vice versa. Did that kill the business? Hell yeah it did. I don't blame Vince for killing all of his competition, however, I do blame him for not making the most at such a golden opportunity i.e. the Invasion angle. Now that Vince is in complete control, he has no reason to listen to the fans, but once again the fans will eventually become fed up and stop watching. Then and only then will the business become successful again.
--- End quote ---
That whole torch passing bullshit is just a story used to help sell a moment and DVDs. Andre The Giant was never the star Hogan was and Hogan was already making more money than the USA's top athletes and movie stars before WMIII. Dude was already a millionaire. So was Austin before WM17 happened. That was my point. They were already established and the company needed them desperately at that moment in time. If Hogan no shows WMIII because Vince won't make the deal and Crockett does and gets Hogan on the NWA then WWF may very well have died at that very moment.
With Austin it's a bit different, because while him not showing up for the main event of that show would have left a lot of people very angry WCW was already all but dead at that point. Now if Austen had threaten to leave at WM15 it may have been more interesting.
Anyway, no where have I said that these guys should have done to start a union. I hate unions and who knows what messes would come about because of them. I just said the only way unions and wrestlers being taken care of properly would have happened would have been if those two guys had made the decision. Every other wrestler in WWF history was expendable.
As for Vince compared to other businessmen. I'm not defending any other top business types. They very well be huge assholes too. But just because most in a field achieve success the same way does not make that way respectable or defensible. And as for the WWF compared to the AWA or NWA; I've watched a lot of both of those companies in the ten years through tapes and such and I grew up with a lot of older cousins that were Observer subscribers and such (smarks), and I remember those days as a kid too. You'd be surprised how similar these products were the entire time. All three were ripping each other off and were very similar. They were also making similar amounts of money. What Vince had that really put him over the the top was Hogan. If AWA never lost Hogan or NWA had picked him up instead of Vince then the 80s would have been by which ever company had him. Vince did not create Hulkamania. Rocky 3 made him aware to the public and then Hulkamania was started in the AWA. Vince JR. then got his dad's company and used his dad's leverage to buy out most of the AWA stars, and WWF was based in New York which is a much greater market than Minnesota or Carolina nd Vince had the New York market locked because his dad was the one that locked it down years before. WCW and WWF were almost neck and neck the entire time both were existing if you really look at the numbers up until Russo took over WCW creative. What happened was that Vince had won out and then he got to write the history books for the main stream audience.
And as for killing competition. ECW was never more than an obscure alternative. But WCW was not killed by WWF or Vince. Time Warner killed WCW when they refused to air it on TV (despite it still being the number 1 or 2 show on TBS and TNT and still a top 10 cable show nation wide even in it's worst days). Then they sold it for 8 million. Which in itself was the stupidest joke of a business move I've ever seen. If all Time Warner did was have some film editor wrestling nut compile archive DVDs and best of comps with very little money spent of ads they could have made a profit of a lot over 8 mil a year every year until today and years to come.
And now since WWE has been the only game in town for like 9 years the wrestling talent pool has gotten so small it would years to build a formidable company to take national and international. I don't see another big phase in the wrestling happening in the next 25 years unless some rich guy who loves it so much just pours cash into a new company for fun just to create competition.
Sikotic™:
Those are some good points. I agree that there won't be any competition anytime soon if ever. And I agree 100% that Vince has fucked up the wrestling content. I still find it hard to blame him for what he has done. It kinda questions his "love" for the business too.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: King Sikotic II on March 16, 2009, 12:01:44 AM ---Those are some good points. I agree that there won't be any competition anytime soon if ever. And I agree 100% that Vince has fucked up the wrestling content. I still find it hard to blame him for what he has done. It kinda questions his "love" for the business too.
--- End quote ---
I don't blame Vince for anything. I just never liked his product as an adult or young adult. It was impossible to hate Hogan as a 5 year old in the 80s, but looking back through the years I don't think me now would be a fan of any era of the WWF Vince Jr years. It's just not my cup of tea. It was always too much in the realm of fantasy for me. I understand his position and his logic, I just don't like it. There is almost no regard for Wrestling history, or wrestling art.
The art of pro wrestling is to make something that is fake seem as real as possible while maintaining its entertainment value. Vince rubs it in my face that it's not real time and time again like that is his goal. He claims he's not a wrestling promoter he's a movie director, and his weekly Raw and Smackdown movies for me are about as good as No Holds Barred, The Marine, or whatever the fuck else WWE films puts together.
Now one thing that I don't blame him for but realize he has had strong influence over is that by making Wrestling the campy smut he has turned it into it has given the term pro-wrestling such a bad name in the mainstream that TV execs and investors don't want to go near it ad that's why they won't pony up the cash for a new product. That being said, if you go back to or three years and put Paul Heyman or Jim Cornette in charge of creative at TNA it would have been gaining fast on WWE right about now. So it's not impossible that group could emerge. I just don't see it happening soon.
Sikotic™:
I hope so because Russo and TNA are doing a worse job than Vince and his creative team are doing.
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