Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Any of ya'll ready to retract your ridiculous "LeBron>Kobe" claims yet?
Kool Beenz:
my bad for that wack post last night i was drunk
i deleted it
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Now_I_Know on June 07, 2009, 11:14:19 AM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on June 06, 2009, 09:32:36 PM ---You can argue whether or not Kobe is as good now as Jordan ever was. I'm not going to say a current Kobe on that Chicago team instead of Jordan wouldn't have won as much. But I'll never believe that Kobe would ever have been the star Jordan was in the mainstream media. You cannot create the level of star MJ was. No matter how good you are. How talented. How many rings. Michael Jordan was in a very select group of mega celebrity super sports stars that only a handful of people ever get to see. Babe Ruth. Ali, Tyson, Mickey Mantle, Jack Dempsey, Wayne Gretzky (but more so in Canada because Hockey is only so big in the US). These are figures who in their prime were national heroes. Plenty of people can be hailed as "the best" at what they do in sports. Their have been dozens over the decades, but only a very select few can reach the heights of marketing that Jordan reached. All the stars alligned for him and he was the perfect man for the situation.
Saying you could easily do it with Kobe is like saying Vince McMahon could have easily made another Hulk Hogan. MJ is Hulk Hogan. Kobe is the Ultimate Warrior.
--- End quote ---
but you can't really say that Kobe wouldn't have been as big as Jordan on the Bulls, because there's no way of knowing...you don't know how Kobe woulda been handled had he been placed in Jordan's shoes. Jordan came in the league at a perfect time, right when marketing took off. I could easily see Kobe being that same way had he been brought into the league under the same circumstances as Jordan...for you to act like that's out of the question is wrong. A huge part of it is a a matter of timing...PeACe
--- End quote ---
If Jordan never came into the league then and came into it now he may or may not have been as big as he was in the 90s but he would be hands down bigger than anyone else in the NBA. There was so much more to market with that guy. He had a natural charisma that LeBron and Kobe don't have. Someone said about Hulk Hogan; Hogan never would have been as big as he was in the 90s instead of the 80s acting the way he acted but you could pluck Hulk Hogan out of 1985 and put him on 2009 TV and he'd be the biggest star in the company hands down.
Timing is a small factor in the rise of megastars. Take Elvis Presly from 1956, give him a slight make over and have him sing current pop songs and he may not change the world of music in 2009 but he'd make Justin Timberlake and the Jonas Brothers look like clowns.
Kobe simply does not have the it factor that Jordan had. I know you like the guy and all but I'm sorry he doesn't. No Laker ever did. No other NBA player ever did. When you thought basketball you thought MJ. And more so you would think MJ before you even thought basketball. No ther player in the history of the sport would you answer the question "Who is Michael Jordan?" with "He's Michael Jordan". Every other huge star in basket you'd say "he's a basketball player".
Now_Im_Not_Banned:
--- Quote from: teecee on June 07, 2009, 12:31:00 PM ---
Only "MoSav" really co-signs you, and its pretty obvious he is your alias.
--- End quote ---
LMAO...your closing sentence summed up your whole flawed way of thinkin.
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
--- Quote from: Shallow on June 07, 2009, 02:29:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: Now_I_Know on June 07, 2009, 11:14:19 AM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on June 06, 2009, 09:32:36 PM ---You can argue whether or not Kobe is as good now as Jordan ever was. I'm not going to say a current Kobe on that Chicago team instead of Jordan wouldn't have won as much. But I'll never believe that Kobe would ever have been the star Jordan was in the mainstream media. You cannot create the level of star MJ was. No matter how good you are. How talented. How many rings. Michael Jordan was in a very select group of mega celebrity super sports stars that only a handful of people ever get to see. Babe Ruth. Ali, Tyson, Mickey Mantle, Jack Dempsey, Wayne Gretzky (but more so in Canada because Hockey is only so big in the US). These are figures who in their prime were national heroes. Plenty of people can be hailed as "the best" at what they do in sports. Their have been dozens over the decades, but only a very select few can reach the heights of marketing that Jordan reached. All the stars alligned for him and he was the perfect man for the situation.
Saying you could easily do it with Kobe is like saying Vince McMahon could have easily made another Hulk Hogan. MJ is Hulk Hogan. Kobe is the Ultimate Warrior.
--- End quote ---
but you can't really say that Kobe wouldn't have been as big as Jordan on the Bulls, because there's no way of knowing...you don't know how Kobe woulda been handled had he been placed in Jordan's shoes. Jordan came in the league at a perfect time, right when marketing took off. I could easily see Kobe being that same way had he been brought into the league under the same circumstances as Jordan...for you to act like that's out of the question is wrong. A huge part of it is a a matter of timing...PeACe
--- End quote ---
If Jordan never came into the league then and came into it now he may or may not have been as big as he was in the 90s but he would be hands down bigger than anyone else in the NBA. There was so much more to market with that guy. He had a natural charisma that LeBron and Kobe don't have. Someone said about Hulk Hogan; Hogan never would have been as big as he was in the 90s instead of the 80s acting the way he acted but you could pluck Hulk Hogan out of 1985 and put him on 2009 TV and he'd be the biggest star in the company hands down.
Timing is a small factor in the rise of megastars. Take Elvis Presly from 1956, give him a slight make over and have him sing current pop songs and he may not change the world of music in 2009 but he'd make Justin Timberlake and the Jonas Brothers look like clowns.
Kobe simply does not have the it factor that Jordan had. I know you like the guy and all but I'm sorry he doesn't. No Laker ever did. No other NBA player ever did. When you thought basketball you thought MJ. And more so you would think MJ before you even thought basketball. No ther player in the history of the sport would you answer the question "Who is Michael Jordan?" with "He's Michael Jordan". Every other huge star in basket you'd say "he's a basketball player".
--- End quote ---
Its true, there are a ton of reason why Jordan is the icon he is. Youre right, during the height of his popularity...he became larger then the sport. There is his charisma, his likeability, etc. But there is also this, for the first time you had a star in Basketball that was hands down, without a doubt (there was NO debate about this) the best player in the league. There was no question. As a matter of fact, before his career was over there was no question that he was the best ever. It was NEVER in doubt. You didnt have that before him, and you havent had it since. And we're talking about an era that saw the end of Magic and Birds careers, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, Drexler, Pippen, Stockton, Wilkins, etc. All greats, all HOF's or future HOF's. And he was still, THE best. And no one argued it.
Now_Im_Not_Banned:
--- Quote from: Shallow on June 07, 2009, 02:29:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: Now_I_Know on June 07, 2009, 11:14:19 AM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on June 06, 2009, 09:32:36 PM ---You can argue whether or not Kobe is as good now as Jordan ever was. I'm not going to say a current Kobe on that Chicago team instead of Jordan wouldn't have won as much. But I'll never believe that Kobe would ever have been the star Jordan was in the mainstream media. You cannot create the level of star MJ was. No matter how good you are. How talented. How many rings. Michael Jordan was in a very select group of mega celebrity super sports stars that only a handful of people ever get to see. Babe Ruth. Ali, Tyson, Mickey Mantle, Jack Dempsey, Wayne Gretzky (but more so in Canada because Hockey is only so big in the US). These are figures who in their prime were national heroes. Plenty of people can be hailed as "the best" at what they do in sports. Their have been dozens over the decades, but only a very select few can reach the heights of marketing that Jordan reached. All the stars alligned for him and he was the perfect man for the situation.
Saying you could easily do it with Kobe is like saying Vince McMahon could have easily made another Hulk Hogan. MJ is Hulk Hogan. Kobe is the Ultimate Warrior.
--- End quote ---
but you can't really say that Kobe wouldn't have been as big as Jordan on the Bulls, because there's no way of knowing...you don't know how Kobe woulda been handled had he been placed in Jordan's shoes. Jordan came in the league at a perfect time, right when marketing took off. I could easily see Kobe being that same way had he been brought into the league under the same circumstances as Jordan...for you to act like that's out of the question is wrong. A huge part of it is a a matter of timing...PeACe
--- End quote ---
If Jordan never came into the league then and came into it now he may or may not have been as big as he was in the 90s but he would be hands down bigger than anyone else in the NBA. There was so much more to market with that guy. He had a natural charisma that LeBron and Kobe don't have. Someone said about Hulk Hogan; Hogan never would have been as big as he was in the 90s instead of the 80s acting the way he acted but you could pluck Hulk Hogan out of 1985 and put him on 2009 TV and he'd be the biggest star in the company hands down.
Timing is a small factor in the rise of megastars. Take Elvis Presly from 1956, give him a slight make over and have him sing current pop songs and he may not change the world of music in 2009 but he'd make Justin Timberlake and the Jonas Brothers look like clowns.
Kobe simply does not have the it factor that Jordan had. I know you like the guy and all but I'm sorry he doesn't. No Laker ever did. No other NBA player ever did. When you thought basketball you thought MJ. And more so you would think MJ before you even thought basketball. No ther player in the history of the sport would you answer the question "Who is Michael Jordan?" with "He's Michael Jordan". Every other huge star in basket you'd say "he's a basketball player".
--- End quote ---
I truly think you underestimate how much the media controls peoples view of an individual... you wanna attribute Jordan's status to his charismatic personality, but I see it more as him getting the extra push that gives him that untouchable perception to the general public. It could also be a combination of both, but the fact of the matter is, there's no way to really know 100%...Either way, I'm more concerned with the way a player plays as opposed to the way that player is viewed as an individual, and all I know is that Kobe, on the court, is capable of doing everything Jordan did and maybe even more...PeACe
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