Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Prepare to be Stunned
Cliftone_Santiago_909:
^^^ Not to be disrespectfull or anything but just cuz tha Catholic Church says so, doesn't mean everyone is gonna agree. And just because it's been around so long, doesn't make it the "right" religion. And half tha people on this board dont even believe in God so you can't be too surprised that someone is gonna disagree with you.
Trauma's Mormon. That's what they believe. And to tell you tha truth, I agree with most tha stuff he's been sayin on this thread.
And to Infinite's questions, about God being equal to God and whether or not God should be praised? Simple answer, maybe not to you or Trauma but some poeple believe so... It's all on tha person and what they feel is right.
infinite59:
--- Quote from: Criminal_909 on October 24, 2002, 12:52:52 AM ---^^^ Not to be disrespectfull or anything but just cuz tha Catholic Church says so, doesn't mean everyone is gonna agree. And just because it's been around so long, doesn't make it the "right" religion. And half tha people on this board dont even believe in God so you can't be too surprised that someone is gonna disagree with you.
Trauma's Mormon. That's what they believe. And to tell you tha truth, I agree with most tha stuff he's been sayin on this thread.
And to Infinite's questions, about God being equal to God and whether or not God should be praised? Simple answer, maybe not to you or Trauma but some poeple believe so... It's all on tha person and what they feel is right.
--- End quote ---
That's a very diplomatic way of putting it. I'm not going to persecute anyone for their beliefs but obviously I do believe that Islam is the correct, truth from Allah, or I wouldn't practice it or call myself a Muslim.
And I was simply asking Trauma if Mormons condider Jesus on the same level as God and if they worship Jesus. I wanted to know what the Mormon believe is on that.
M Dogg™:
Was Mary a Virgin though out life. No doubt, or at least never had any other kids. She was the perfect human, and Joseph was very old. He raised Jesus as he was a child. Never in the Bible did they mention Jesus having brothers and sisters until he was older, and well he was a child that would be important. Why is this, because all his sibings were older, therefore out of Joseph's care when Jesus was born since in them days you leave your parents at like 16. Also, this explains why in the beginning of the New Testament, why they talk about Jesus's bloodline, and it talks about Joseph as his father, meaning that Jesus regonizing Joseph as his human father, so therefore his kids are Jesus's siblings. Trauma, word of advice, never argue the Virgin Mary to most Latinas, 'cause she is a great symbol to the overall culture, and most women pick it up more than the men.
Also, according to the Holy Trinity, Jesus is the Son of God, but though Jesus, you get to the Father, therefore they both are needed to get God's word out. The Holy Spirit is the force and love that they have and what keeps things together. All 3 of them are needed to fully deliever the power of God. So all three are what God is made of. The problem is that this is very hard for most people to understand, so many different Christian factions now threw it out, because they do not know how to teach it. But like Mary being a Virgin, it's a teaching that Christians have had for over 1800 years, before in the mid 1850's about, different Christian factions changed their beliefs. I question that, because how can you change a way a religion is taught, when for over 1800 years it was taught a certain way, but without proof, you change it.
MidnightPills:
in response to that....
i will never buy anything a moron tells me for one....
my reasons behind that is my cultural history and also my family history........
criminal go ahead and believe what he has to say... i dont care.. it is your soul not mines....
Reason Number one.....
It has never been documented in Native American histroy.... not once about jesus coming to the Americans during his time period.... there is no envidence of such things.... and if there was, dont you think all Native Americans would have been moron before the spanish came??
in my tribes and family history... and also the tribes that surrounded my tribe... will tell you the story of there greatgrandfather and the battles with the moron is california in the late 1800s and early 1900s of the burtality of the morons that settle here.... the house still stands where morons dwelll and killed many Native Americans that pass through the Cojon pass.... My great uncle paul would tell my fathers these stories.. and now they are passed down to me.... I am a southern Paiut women who comes from the san bernardino valley....that was once called the land of smoke... they called it this because in the mornings the valley would be filled with the some of the nations that would wake up and cook there breakfast before going about there day..... i know the history of my people.. and it is not pretty as the years go on... and the whites settle......
my great great uncle paul told these stories to his nieces and nephews for a reason... he lived during the time period when the indians were kicked out of california by the moron settlers and the white settlers... there is a house that still stands today... where a bunch of moron men would get to gether and kill any indians they saw passing through the Cojon pass.... my uncle paul was also a victume of these men... when he was walking through the pass with his sister.. one of them being my greatgrandmother .... was ran over by a horse of one of the men....... my dad told me this story... and other tribes that i have met at pow wows know the stories of this house too..... they know where it sits to this day.... that house was buildt for a reason... and it was to kill the indians that pass through..... when the morons settlers kicked the indians out of the valley... they moved us out to the desert....there was no food for the indains to eat.... so they were force to eat the garbage from a dump that laid out there... these are story.. that have been passed down to my dad.. from there we were forced into mexico.. were our culture was lost and had to adapted to the mexicans ways... my grandmother told me the stories of my uncle paul bring his sister back to america.. he had to pay money to do so...
our tribe was traders.. they would walk from the valley to the LA area to trade goods to one another tribes.... my uncle pauls name is on a plax that sits near the train station which btw his wife owned.... but they took that before he was finally forced into mexico....
truama you are setting here telling my belief is not corrected .... when your religion carries all kinds of faults..... if you came down here trauma.. these tribes can tell you the blood that your almighty religion holds... what is sad the state of california refuses to add these to the history books of our school children..... and tribes from all over can tell you about the same house... the same people.. who would sit out day to day.. killing and running indians off..... so why am i going to believe or agree with you biblical??
i know my family and tribal history... i been told by my grandmother and my father.. from a native american professior at San Bernardino Valley College and another paiut professior at UCR.............. trauma.. your religion is a shaim in my eyes..... nothing you can say biblically will ever be seen as valid in my eyes.......
my question to you now is.... how can jesus have come to the americas and not have any affect what so ever on the people... wouldnt you think.. by his mighty and loving touch... we as one people would have been saved? no we continued to believe in our God.. and some remain to believe in multi-gods....
i personally think your religion is a bunch of BS and is actually seen as a cult by other religion such as catholic and most protestant religions that are direct break-offs odf the catholic church... and not only catholics believe that mary was a virgin.. look at the church of england and lurthans??? Queen Elizabeth herself dressed like her...she is the mother of the church.. not just my church but churches....... she appeared to Juan Deigo in mexico city.... to help the indains from the mexican government.............
if you take this as a personal attack on your religion.. it is..... i dont believe a word of what you church has to say.. because it cant even to admit to the blood it has shed throughout history.... and it never will because honestly who wants to come out.. and say.. yeah we helped whip out the indians.. in the name of God and purity.....................
sorry if i offended anyone in this thread.... but this has been bothering me for sometime...and i am not about to let some moron tell me what is and what isnt... because the religion its self has not even been around 500 years.... it is a waist of time if you ask me...
Trauma-san:
Well, sounds like I have a lot to say : LOL
First, to Infinite, thanks for being at least respectful. Yes, Christ should be worshipped, and is the Son of god. While Mormons dont' believe that Christ, the Father, and the Holy ghost are 1 in a trinity sense (parts of the same thing), they do believe that all 3 are seperate beings, but one in their perfection. All 3 are viewed as 'god', but are different people, so if you want to take that to mean that we worship many gods, so be it. Remember, at Jesus' baptism, he was there, the holy ghost was there, and God was there. How is this possible, if they're not all 3 different entities? Remember in the Garden of Gessemene, he prayed to his father, to know the will of the father (Father, remove this cup, but nevertheless, not my will, by thy will be done)... if they were part of the same entity, he would have known his father's will. It's just obvious to me, that in the bible, you're talking with 3 different entities, the son, the father, and the holy ghost.
M Dogg & Pink: Do you honestly think the catholic church has remained the same for 1800 years? Are you crazy? Have you guys not looked into this? It's NOTHING like it originally was. The bible has been slaughtered, entire books deleted from it by the catholic church, because they didn't agree with what they said.
About Mary in particular, she was probably the greatest woman that ever lived (She WAS chosen to be Jesus's mom, right? She must have raised him perfectly, what a woman). That doesn't mean that she had to be a virgin to do it! The reason Jesus's siblings aren't talked about in the earlier parts of his life are... because JESUS himself isn't talked about! Find me scriptures of Jesus as a child... the only one I know of is When he was teaching in the temple at a young age, and his mom scolded him, he told her he was "About his fathers work". Joseph and Mary had children after Jesus was born, just like any normal family. Do you honestly think Mary would never make love with her husband, her entire life? Why? What is good about that? M Dogg, you said she was "the perfect person" why does she have to be a virgin her whole life to be perfect? It's obviously god's plan for us to have sex in our families, there's only been what, Adam, Eve, and Jesus created without Sex throughout the world? There's nothing wrong with Sex, and I certainly wouldn't consider Mary a lesser person if later in her life she had children. There's nothing wrong with that.
As for Mormons attacking your ancestors, well, I'm sorry that they did. I won't even doubt it, even though I don't know the validity of what you said. Maybe all that and more happened, but those are the people of a religion, not the religion. Nothing about my religion teaches to harm people. On the other hand, ask around about what the catholic religion has done to people in other countries. Just as it would be unfair for me to judge you as a catholic, because of what some catholic did 200 years ago, it is very unfair for you to hate all latter day saints, just because they did something bad to your ancestors 200 years ago.
Next: You say there is no documentation of Jesus coming to america. Yes there is, the book of mormon for one, but if you dont' want to believe that, go to central america, and check out the pyramids and temples there. You'll see that synonomous through all of them is the worship of the great feathered serpent. The feathered serpent always has 11 feathers (representing the 11 apostles Christ left after his death)... the serpent is feathered, because like a serpent, Christ descended beneath the ground, and like a serpent with feathers, flew back to heaven.. there is TONS of symbolism in central america, YOU'RE HOMELAND that points to the worship of christ by the ancients, there are scenes of Mayans passing the sacrament just like I do every sunday, there are scenes carved of Mayans wearing white temple robes, there's even a stella depicting a man sitting in a cave, holding plates, and speaking the word of god (which is depicting Ether, the most ancient part of the book of mormon).
But you don't want to hear that, do you? YOu'd rather say your church is right, and it's been the same for 2000 years. You'd rather not think about the evidence that might exist in central america pointing to christ in america. You'd rather not read the book of mormon, where it explains and shows through documented history all of this.
How can you blame my church for killing your ancestors, when there were only a few thousand of them at that time? There were millions of Catholics killing your ancestors, 100 years before that! Are you daft?
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