Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Coaches overrated?
Teddy Roosevelt:
--- Quote from: Shallow on December 01, 2009, 03:14:17 PM ---Basketball is one thing, but football is another. The coaching staff of a football team can make a terrible team a great team over night, and it has to do with strategy more so than fire. A new coach can fire up a team mid-season like what happened to the Niners last year, but a new coaching system can change an organization. That's a fact. Parcells went to a 1-15 Miami, brought in his guys and over night they were 11-5 and in the playoffs. The same team with a new strategy. Pennington went from a liability on the Jets to a stud in Miami. Look at Kyle Orton in Denver, or the reverse effect, Cutler in Chicago.
Would Bellicheck turn around St. Louis mid season? No, but if he left NE for next season and brought Crennel and Wies with him they'd be in the playoffs next year (the division is a factor in that too).
Why do you think an NFL football team has a coaching bigger than most NBA and NHL teams? It is that important.
--- End quote ---
Because NFL teams have a lot more players (playing very different positions).
But you're right, football is more vulnerable to good and bad coaching then basketball or baseball. But if you have the Patriots and Browns switch coaches, and the results aren't too far off in the regular season.
Lunatic:
--- Quote from: Teddy Roosevelt on December 01, 2009, 03:18:44 PM ---football is more vulnerable to good and bad coaching then basketball or baseball.
--- End quote ---
Pretty much how I feel.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Teddy Roosevelt on December 01, 2009, 03:18:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on December 01, 2009, 03:14:17 PM ---Basketball is one thing, but football is another. The coaching staff of a football team can make a terrible team a great team over night, and it has to do with strategy more so than fire. A new coach can fire up a team mid-season like what happened to the Niners last year, but a new coaching system can change an organization. That's a fact. Parcells went to a 1-15 Miami, brought in his guys and over night they were 11-5 and in the playoffs. The same team with a new strategy. Pennington went from a liability on the Jets to a stud in Miami. Look at Kyle Orton in Denver, or the reverse effect, Cutler in Chicago.
Would Bellicheck turn around St. Louis mid season? No, but if he left NE for next season and brought Crennel and Wies with him they'd be in the playoffs next year (the division is a factor in that too).
Why do you think an NFL football team has a coaching bigger than most NBA and NHL teams? It is that important.
--- End quote ---
Because NFL teams have a lot more players (playing very different positions).
But you're right, football is more vulnerable to good and bad coaching then basketball or baseball. But if you have the Patriots and Browns switch coaches, and the results aren't too far off in the regular season.
--- End quote ---
Switching just the head coach maybe won't do much, but his whole staff will. Just give me a logical reason for the turn around success of the Dolphins and I'll drop it. Some coaches play simple schemes and rely on great players to make plays or other teams to mess up, like Dungy's Tampa two, but other coaches take pretty much the same teams and turn the scheme on it's head. Look at the Saints Defense last year and this year, or the Jets defense.
There isn't a proportional difference between players in coaches in the NBA and NFL. There are more coaches per player, by a lot.
Lunatic:
I'll catch hate for it but Jeff Fisher is a good example of a great coach in the NFL. He's never really had ALL the talent. Either lots of under rated players or players that only he and his coaching stuff could get the most out of. There is lots of examples of this. Kearse, Gage, Chris Brown, Antawn Odom (up until this year), Laboy, Vanden Bosch, Haynesworth, etc.
The team is very cheap and relies on finding diamond in the rough players/the draft to replace expensive free agents walking away yet coach Fisher always has us in the mix.
Chamillitary Click:
--- Quote from: Shallow on December 01, 2009, 03:31:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: Teddy Roosevelt on December 01, 2009, 03:18:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on December 01, 2009, 03:14:17 PM ---Basketball is one thing, but football is another. The coaching staff of a football team can make a terrible team a great team over night, and it has to do with strategy more so than fire. A new coach can fire up a team mid-season like what happened to the Niners last year, but a new coaching system can change an organization. That's a fact. Parcells went to a 1-15 Miami, brought in his guys and over night they were 11-5 and in the playoffs. The same team with a new strategy. Pennington went from a liability on the Jets to a stud in Miami. Look at Kyle Orton in Denver, or the reverse effect, Cutler in Chicago.
Would Bellicheck turn around St. Louis mid season? No, but if he left NE for next season and brought Crennel and Wies with him they'd be in the playoffs next year (the division is a factor in that too).
Why do you think an NFL football team has a coaching bigger than most NBA and NHL teams? It is that important.
--- End quote ---
Because NFL teams have a lot more players (playing very different positions).
But you're right, football is more vulnerable to good and bad coaching then basketball or baseball. But if you have the Patriots and Browns switch coaches, and the results aren't too far off in the regular season.
--- End quote ---
Switching just the head coach maybe won't do much, but his whole staff will. Just give me a logical reason for the turn around success of the Dolphins and I'll drop it. Some coaches play simple schemes and rely on great players to make plays or other teams to mess up, like Dungy's Tampa two, but other coaches take pretty much the same teams and turn the scheme on it's head. Look at the Saints Defense last year and this year, or the Jets defense.
There isn't a proportional difference between players in coaches in the NBA and NFL. There are more coaches per player, by a lot.
--- End quote ---
yeah, but that's what you hear.
Jeff Fisher is such a phenomial coach or a team should make a run for Bill Cowher.
it's the coach who gets all the glory & i don't think he deserves all the credit he gets; that goes for all the heat he gets too.
--- Quote from: Lunatic 63 on December 01, 2009, 03:45:10 PM ---I'll catch hate for it but Jeff Fisher is a good example of a great coach in the NFL. He's never really had ALL the talent. Either lots of under rated players or players that only he and his coaching stuff could get the most out of. There is lots of examples of this. Kearse, Gage, Chris Brown, Antawn Odom (up until this year), Laboy, Vanden Bosch, Haynesworth, etc.
The team is very cheap and relies on finding diamond in the rough players/the draft to replace expensive free agents walking away yet coach Fisher always has us in the mix.
--- End quote ---
"diamonds in the rough" are good players though, that's talent; not to mention the Pro-Bowl worthy Vince Young lol.
Steve McNair (RIP) was an MVP & Eddie George was a fucking monster.
sure, Jeff Fisher is a better coach than other people in the league; but he wouldn't make a bad team good; the perfect coach created by God wouldn't make an average team a Super Bowl contender.
agreed Football has the most need for a coach, but without talent you got nothing.
--- Quote from: TheRemedy360 on December 01, 2009, 03:07:30 PM ---To an extent there's always gonna be an argument for Jackson. He's obviously a great coach cause his philosophies about playing the game have always stuck with his players and he's gotten respect from some of the tougher personalities in the game. But, I think most coaches would give anything to be able to coach players like MJ, Kobe, Pippen, Shaq, etc along with the great supporting casts they always played with.
--- End quote ---
i'm not trying to take anything away from Phil Jackson; i would say he is the best coach in the NBA, but i don't even think he would need all 10 rings to show that.
it's just, he isn't the reason they won & if a guy like Doc can win in Boston, anybody could of won last year with the Lakers squad.
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