Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Keith Olbermann goes hard at Obama
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: Shallow on December 17, 2009, 06:48:52 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on December 17, 2009, 06:34:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on December 17, 2009, 08:29:20 AM ---Do these American idiots actually want something that even resembles the Canadian model? Because it would collapse in the US, and maybe collapse the US. Keep an eyer out in Canada please and see how we slowly pay more and coverage slowly becomes less, and we slowly increase debt because of it. It's a horrible model that will self destruct soon. The US needs to change their system, but more government is not the answer.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
The problem with the US system M Dogg is you have less Government with regards to health care, but not with regards to medicine and practice of medicine. The FDA and legal mumbo jumbo gets right in the face of drug companies and doctors making sure they charge as much as possible for shit, and then lets the insurance companies run lenient. The question Americans should be asking isn't why aren't insurance companies covering us? It's; why is the coverage so much to begin with? And that is where less government should be key.
A doctor could not perform a operation free of charge, and a medical genius could not pass his tried and true drug through the motions with out big business greasing the wheels.
--- End quote ---
In the industrial world, we have the worst health system. We are just above Cuba, and if you have no money in our country you are shit out of luck. The free market has no business in certain areas and peoples lives is one of them. In Canada, there is an issue with their health care, but at the same time you have a better health care than we do. You look at it like this. We are tied to jobs because we need health care, we have an issue because people that have ideas are tied to their jobs. If you have an idea for a small business, and you want to invest your money in this, you can't. You are tied to a job just so you can have health care, and leaving your job means you and your family are not protected. This system does not foster creativity and allow people to venture out and grow, what this system creates is conservative minded people afraid to invest in themselves and stay at their jobs. Are countries creativity comes from 20 somethings that are not afraid of their health, and they are not afraid of risk, but it cripples are older population that may have had a great idea but can't risk leaving their job. That's how our system, in case you wanted it in free market terms.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: M Dogg on December 17, 2009, 07:09:04 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on December 17, 2009, 06:48:52 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on December 17, 2009, 06:34:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on December 17, 2009, 08:29:20 AM ---Do these American idiots actually want something that even resembles the Canadian model? Because it would collapse in the US, and maybe collapse the US. Keep an eyer out in Canada please and see how we slowly pay more and coverage slowly becomes less, and we slowly increase debt because of it. It's a horrible model that will self destruct soon. The US needs to change their system, but more government is not the answer.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
The problem with the US system M Dogg is you have less Government with regards to health care, but not with regards to medicine and practice of medicine. The FDA and legal mumbo jumbo gets right in the face of drug companies and doctors making sure they charge as much as possible for shit, and then lets the insurance companies run lenient. The question Americans should be asking isn't why aren't insurance companies covering us? It's; why is the coverage so much to begin with? And that is where less government should be key.
A doctor could not perform a operation free of charge, and a medical genius could not pass his tried and true drug through the motions with out big business greasing the wheels.
--- End quote ---
In the industrial world, we have the worst health system. We are just above Cuba, and if you have no money in our country you are shit out of luck. The free market has no business in certain areas and peoples lives is one of them. In Canada, there is an issue with their health care, but at the same time you have a better health care than we do. You look at it like this. We are tied to jobs because we need health care, we have an issue because people that have ideas are tied to their jobs. If you have an idea for a small business, and you want to invest your money in this, you can't. You are tied to a job just so you can have health care, and leaving your job means you and your family are not protected. This system does not foster creativity and allow people to venture out and grow, what this system creates is conservative minded people afraid to invest in themselves and stay at their jobs. Are countries creativity comes from 20 somethings that are not afraid of their health, and they are not afraid of risk, but it cripples are older population that may have had a great idea but can't risk leaving their job. That's how our system, in case you wanted it in free market terms.
--- End quote ---
Nothing you said had anything to do with what I said but I'll respond to it anyway;
You want to bring up growth and creativity, and you want to mention Canada? That makes no sense. Anyone up here that has an idea and wants to make it big, goes down south. You guys are filled with people that stay put for health care. We're filled with taxes that drive people away. You will not grow as a market one bit by going with public heath the way we have it. It would cripple you with the costs.
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: Shallow on December 17, 2009, 08:30:04 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on December 17, 2009, 07:09:04 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on December 17, 2009, 06:48:52 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on December 17, 2009, 06:34:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on December 17, 2009, 08:29:20 AM ---Do these American idiots actually want something that even resembles the Canadian model? Because it would collapse in the US, and maybe collapse the US. Keep an eyer out in Canada please and see how we slowly pay more and coverage slowly becomes less, and we slowly increase debt because of it. It's a horrible model that will self destruct soon. The US needs to change their system, but more government is not the answer.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
The problem with the US system M Dogg is you have less Government with regards to health care, but not with regards to medicine and practice of medicine. The FDA and legal mumbo jumbo gets right in the face of drug companies and doctors making sure they charge as much as possible for shit, and then lets the insurance companies run lenient. The question Americans should be asking isn't why aren't insurance companies covering us? It's; why is the coverage so much to begin with? And that is where less government should be key.
A doctor could not perform a operation free of charge, and a medical genius could not pass his tried and true drug through the motions with out big business greasing the wheels.
--- End quote ---
In the industrial world, we have the worst health system. We are just above Cuba, and if you have no money in our country you are shit out of luck. The free market has no business in certain areas and peoples lives is one of them. In Canada, there is an issue with their health care, but at the same time you have a better health care than we do. You look at it like this. We are tied to jobs because we need health care, we have an issue because people that have ideas are tied to their jobs. If you have an idea for a small business, and you want to invest your money in this, you can't. You are tied to a job just so you can have health care, and leaving your job means you and your family are not protected. This system does not foster creativity and allow people to venture out and grow, what this system creates is conservative minded people afraid to invest in themselves and stay at their jobs. Are countries creativity comes from 20 somethings that are not afraid of their health, and they are not afraid of risk, but it cripples are older population that may have had a great idea but can't risk leaving their job. That's how our system, in case you wanted it in free market terms.
--- End quote ---
Nothing you said had anything to do with what I said but I'll respond to it anyway;
You want to bring up growth and creativity, and you want to mention Canada? That makes no sense. Anyone up here that has an idea and wants to make it big, goes down south. You guys are filled with people that stay put for health care. We're filled with taxes that drive people away. You will not grow as a market one bit by going with public heath the way we have it. It would cripple you with the costs.
--- End quote ---
I didn't respond because I thought you'd like a more free market answer. But I'll tell you how we lower cost. Quiet simply, government run hospitals, put the same kind of funding in pharmacy as NASA at it's height and adjust America's priorities so that medical takes place of military as our tax dollars number one concern. Were Canada messes up, they have no private insurance or private hospital. I'd keep them, you want private care, that's fine, America has the best private care in the history of this world. But that excludes so many from this country. Isn't it funny, a poor American goes to Canada to get care, but a rich Canadian will come to the US for care.
To keep prices down, you want cheaper care, let tax dollars fund it so that pay and expenses become public. Private care can have out of control cost, we need a public care system than covers more people and allows for health care to be available to all.
As for Canadians coming down south to make it big. It might be true of younger people, since younger people have less need for health care. But in an older person, that is not true at all. Once you hit your 30's and you have kids to think of, you are tied to health care. If you are young, single, and are completely healthy, then you have no worries and you can take risk. You can take advantage of the US's lower taxes. But this is not the case once you have a family.
Russell Bell:
In my opinion the government handing out so-called free health care to the masses is a great idea. But thats in theory. I just do not have faith in this government, or any for that matter, to run it correctly. When you have government run industry mixed with the need to serve mass amounts of people you get legal red tape everywhere. Look at the school system, hell, look at the DMV. Why does it take 3 hours to get a new pic for a license? Better question: how long would it take if the government didnt run that place? Not three hours.
What we need is better rules governing the system we have now. Can't get health care if youre over 25 (on your parents insurance). Why? If youre going to school full time who gives a shit if youre over 25. That could be changed and many more people could be covered. Also, we have free health care here in California available to those who are poor already. I say improve that system thats in place (widen coverage through better use of tax dollars or by raising luxury taxes, etc).
As for Olbermann and Beck being compared, they both spew propaganda for one side and one side only: their side. It isnt about issues, usually, with those guys. Dont get me wrong, I agree with both on some issues and they can be pretty entertaining. But thats my point I guess. How can you be honestly for "issues" when you only agree with one side, all the time? This is the problem with people in our country. They are so polarized they only see their side of the issue, and cant ever conceed anything. Politicians in congress voting strictly down party lines, shit makes me sick. I view Olbermann and Beck as mouthpieces for fools like this.
virtuoso:
--- Quote from: Russell Bell on December 18, 2009, 09:35:42 AM ---In my opinion the government handing out so-called free health care to the masses is a great idea. But thats in theory. I just do not have faith in this government, or any for that matter, to run it correctly. When you have government run industry mixed with the need to serve mass amounts of people you get legal red tape everywhere. Look at the school system, hell, look at the DMV. Why does it take 3 hours to get a new pic for a license? Better question: how long would it take if the government didnt run that place? Not three hours.
What we need is better rules governing the system we have now. Can't get health care if youre over 25 (on your parents insurance). Why? If youre going to school full time who gives a shit if youre over 25. That could be changed and many more people could be covered. Also, we have free health care here in California available to those who are poor already. I say improve that system thats in place (widen coverage through better use of tax dollars or by raising luxury taxes, etc).
As for Olbermann and Beck being compared, they both spew propaganda for one side and one side only: their side. It isnt about issues, usually, with those guys. Dont get me wrong, I agree with both on some issues and they can be pretty entertaining. But thats my point I guess. How can you be honestly for "issues" when you only agree with one side, all the time? This is the problem with people in our country. They are so polarized they only see their side of the issue, and cant ever conceed anything. Politicians in congress voting strictly down party lines, shit makes me sick. I view Olbermann and Beck as mouthpieces for fools like this.
--- End quote ---
Word, the other thing is governments want to run every facet of the health system (like in the UK) therefore constantly dictating to the doctors what is and isn't acceptable, constantly being judged on "efficiency". The government actually degrades the quality of the health care by setting target after target, which aren't actually improving, instead it forces the hospitals to meet them to the detriment of care.
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