Lifestyle > Train of Thought

Who is Worse? Hitler or Bin Laden???

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Doggystylin:

--- Quote from: Quakaveli on November 24, 2002, 11:43:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Doggy on November 24, 2002, 11:39:58 PM ---whats with the name calling sir quake?, are you mad cuz you found out that u fucked up?

--- End quote ---

LOL dont be a hypocrit faggy, U started with the name callingnd thats the reason I replied back the same way(I dont see college teachers speak teh same way they do to their grandkids as they speak to their students do i???) I didnt use any names for Tech as U noticed cuz at least he aint a retarded no-brain-shit-talking faggot like and ur girlfrend rod

--- End quote ---

HA atleast im the man and rod's the girl......

wait....fuck u bitch! and wow how original are you, "faggy"

Nostromoo:
Well sorry to be contentious but IMHO it's Osama.

I say this because you can't take a simplistic approach and say Hitler was worse simply because more Jews were killed during the Second World War than people died in September 11th. It's a meaningless comparison as 9/11 and WWII are too different events [sic].

Hitler loved Germany and the German people. He pulled Germany from recession in the 30s to an almost world conquering power. But power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely and quite clearly he went insane. And it was not only due to the corruption of power but also the fact he saw most of his best most loved soldiers wiped out in Russia by the antithesis of his Nazi ideals (Communists) and there was nothing he could do to help. For a man teetering on the edge of sanity, don't you think that would push him over the edge?

Also, although it's true that millions of Jews were killed (most systematically in death camps) there's no evidence that Hitler personally gave the order for this to happen. In fact, it was probably Himmler's idea as he was ultimately in control of the Einsatzgruppen (the original death squads). In a situation where you're a leader of such a powerful country, especially in war time, you have to delegate. You can't possibly make every decision yourself. Maybe he knew what was happening to the Jews, maybe he didn't. Maybe he was too busy. Maybe he had a vague idea but just plain didn't care. Or maybe he in fact did orchestrate the whole thing. It's simply not known as there is no evidence to reach a firm decision.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to condone Hitler's actions. But basically I find it hard to demonise someone without firm evidence of guilt and premeditation. Some in the Nazi party were evil but not necessarily all of them. It's quite clear that in WWI General Haig was given 'over optimistic' intelligence reports so he didn't know exactly what was going on at the front. Therefore it's at least possible that Hitler was kept in the dark by those close to him - by those he thought he could trust - about exactly what was happening. There is at least a reasonable doubt (in my mind anyway.) Even if he did know how can you condem a man for his actions if he is insane? To what extent is an an insane man aware of and in control of his actions?

Seriously, I pity Hitler. Someone who could have been a great leader but was manipulated by greed and power, and by the lust for power of others, and fell so low. Someone who loved his county so much and saw it destroyed so completely in a little over 5 years. It's real Greek tragedy material.

On the other hand, Osama clearly, deliberately and rationally planned the attack on the WTC. He must have spent a great deal of time thinking about and planning the attack. No prior warning was issued and no apology was given for the immense loss of life. In fact, he even seemed to revel in the destruction and number of deaths he caused as seen in some of those videotapes of him they discovered in Afghanistan. He knew exactly what would happen after the attack. Perhaps not to the extent of the towers collapsing but he must have known thousands would die. If all he wanted to do was destroy the twin towers he could have flown empty planes into them in the middle of the night. He obviously just wanted to kill Americans. And to plan an attack like that in such detail with clear conscience and obvious premeditation IMO is truly evil. And the only reason was American hatred brought about by its pro Zionist stand.

Maestro Minded:

--- Quote from: Nostromoo on November 25, 2002, 03:40:25 PM ---Well sorry to be contentious but IMHO it's Osama.

I say this because you can't take a simplistic approach and say Hitler was worse simply because more Jews were killed during the Second World War than people died in September 11th. It's a meaningless comparison as 9/11 and WWII are too different events [sic].

Hitler loved Germany and the German people. He pulled Germany from recession in the 30s to an almost world conquering power. But power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely and quite clearly he went insane. And it was not only due to the corruption of power but also the fact he saw most of his best most loved soldiers wiped out in Russia by the antithesis of his Nazi ideals (Communists) and there was nothing he could do to help. For a man teetering on the edge of sanity, don't you think that would push him over the edge?

Also, although it's true that millions of Jews were killed (most systematically in death camps) there's no evidence that Hitler personally gave the order for this to happen. In fact, it was probably Himmler's idea as he was ultimately in control of the Einsatzgruppen (the original death squads). In a situation where you're a leader of such a powerful country, especially in war time, you have to delegate. You can't possibly make every decision yourself. Maybe he knew what was happening to the Jews, maybe he didn't. Maybe he was too busy. Maybe he had a vague idea but just plain didn't care. Or maybe he in fact did orchestrate the whole thing. It's simply not known as there is no evidence to reach a firm decision.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to condone Hitler's actions. But basically I find it hard to demonise someone without firm evidence of guilt and premeditation. Some in the Nazi party were evil but not necessarily all of them. It's quite clear that in WWI General Haig was given 'over optimistic' intelligence reports so he didn't know exactly what was going on at the front. Therefore it's at least possible that Hitler was kept in the dark by those close to him - by those he thought he could trust - about exactly what was happening. There is at least a reasonable doubt (in my mind anyway.) Even if he did know how can you condem a man for his actions if he is insane? To what extent is an an insane man aware of and in control of his actions?

Seriously, I pity Hitler. Someone who could have been a great leader but was manipulated by greed and power, and by the lust for power of others, and fell so low. Someone who loved his county so much and saw it destroyed so completely in a little over 5 years. It's real Greek tragedy material.

On the other hand, Osama clearly, deliberately and rationally planned the attack on the WTC. He must have spent a great deal of time thinking about and planning the attack. No prior warning was issued and no apology was given for the immense loss of life. In fact, he even seemed to revel in the destruction and number of deaths he caused as seen in some of those videotapes of him they discovered in Afghanistan. He knew exactly what would happen after the attack. Perhaps not to the extent of the towers collapsing but he must have known thousands would die. If all he wanted to do was destroy the twin towers he could have flown empty planes into them in the middle of the night. He obviously just wanted to kill Americans. And to plan an attack like that in such detail with clear conscience and obvious premeditation IMO is truly evil. And the only reason was American hatred brought about by its pro Zionist stand.

--- End quote ---

you need to get your facts right...

01. Hitler definatly knew about the camps. As matter fact, he did spare the life of one jew, who happened to be the doctor of his mother. He was planning sending him too, but his mother begged him so spare his life.

02. Hitler was the one who approved all commands.

03. Hitler was no partiot, he wasnt native german, he wasnt arian (he was 1/4 jew). Basicly he represented everyting he was against. Theres even evidence that Hitler was gay.

4. Hitler was never a great leader. He only managed to defeat 2 countries. Poland who defended themselfs with horses and france, wich actually wasnt a defeat, He did manage to counquer important cities, but the battle was far from finished


90% of your post is incorrect, but i dont have the time to analyze the whole shit

Timcasic:

--- Quote from: Nostromoo on November 25, 2002, 03:40:25 PM ---Well sorry to be contentious but IMHO it's Osama.

I say this because you can't take a simplistic approach and say Hitler was worse simply because more Jews were killed during the Second World War than people died in September 11th. It's a meaningless comparison as 9/11 and WWII are too different events [sic].

Hitler loved Germany and the German people. He pulled Germany from recession in the 30s to an almost world conquering power. But power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely and quite clearly he went insane. And it was not only due to the corruption of power but also the fact he saw most of his best most loved soldiers wiped out in Russia by the antithesis of his Nazi ideals (Communists) and there was nothing he could do to help. For a man teetering on the edge of sanity, don't you think that would push him over the edge?

Also, although it's true that millions of Jews were killed (most systematically in death camps) there's no evidence that Hitler personally gave the order for this to happen. In fact, it was probably Himmler's idea as he was ultimately in control of the Einsatzgruppen (the original death squads). In a situation where you're a leader of such a powerful country, especially in war time, you have to delegate. You can't possibly make every decision yourself. Maybe he knew what was happening to the Jews, maybe he didn't. Maybe he was too busy. Maybe he had a vague idea but just plain didn't care. Or maybe he in fact did orchestrate the whole thing. It's simply not known as there is no evidence to reach a firm decision.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to condone Hitler's actions. But basically I find it hard to demonise someone without firm evidence of guilt and premeditation. Some in the Nazi party were evil but not necessarily all of them. It's quite clear that in WWI General Haig was given 'over optimistic' intelligence reports so he didn't know exactly what was going on at the front. Therefore it's at least possible that Hitler was kept in the dark by those close to him - by those he thought he could trust - about exactly what was happening. There is at least a reasonable doubt (in my mind anyway.) Even if he did know how can you condem a man for his actions if he is insane? To what extent is an an insane man aware of and in control of his actions?

Seriously, I pity Hitler. Someone who could have been a great leader but was manipulated by greed and power, and by the lust for power of others, and fell so low. Someone who loved his county so much and saw it destroyed so completely in a little over 5 years. It's real Greek tragedy material.

On the other hand, Osama clearly, deliberately and rationally planned the attack on the WTC. He must have spent a great deal of time thinking about and planning the attack. No prior warning was issued and no apology was given for the immense loss of life. In fact, he even seemed to revel in the destruction and number of deaths he caused as seen in some of those videotapes of him they discovered in Afghanistan. He knew exactly what would happen after the attack. Perhaps not to the extent of the towers collapsing but he must have known thousands would die. If all he wanted to do was destroy the twin towers he could have flown empty planes into them in the middle of the night. He obviously just wanted to kill Americans. And to plan an attack like that in such detail with clear conscience and obvious premeditation IMO is truly evil. And the only reason was American hatred brought about by its pro Zionist stand.

--- End quote ---



Go read some history books dogg.

closetothalimit:

--- Quote from: Timcasic on November 25, 2002, 09:02:34 PM ---Go read some history books dogg.

--- End quote ---

i hope that was a joke because if it wasnt what he said was very historically correct. if hitler had been killed before world war 2 he would now be considered one of the greatest evidence and it is a great historical debate of how much hitler knew concering the holocaust, personally i think he had much involvement, but considering he wasnt the one that choose that answer to the "Jewish Question" in 1942 at the Wannase Conference so i dont really know what to think.

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