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Democrats pass health care reform bill

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Matty:
and m dogg stop trolling with the alex jones nonsense, we know you don't really agree with anything strongly against the status quo.

and we know alex jones makes wild speculations and doesn't really understand bigger picture or any solutions beyond 'conspiracies' and 'rising up'. but you can come to some similar conclusions regarding the future just by having a logical overview being pragamatic about the physical world and allocation of resources.

to be pro-establishment at this point in time is simply to be deluded or in denial. the very idea of things somehow righting themselves from anything resembling the current political/monetary system is fairy tales. it'll become unglued long before then...

virtuoso:

Yeah that was my point, that this is a distraction because it implements a system which can't be sustained but while the last taxes are being taken, they can portray this as something wonderful, while on the ground people more and more people will get increasingly poorer and then health will suffer, so then there will need to be bigger tax rises, more government intervention and more decisions on who lives and who dies. I hate to paint it in those stark terms because my life was saved courtesy of the social health system here and I wouldn't disagree that there are a lot of good caring people in the health service but the system itself is an altogether much more dangerous proposition.

However I guess if I was being absolutely pragmatic, I would say this is just another piece being picked off an already rotting carcass. I am not a libertarian per sa, I am conflicted somewhat because both alternatives being offered are much the same, the banks did all this and the banks are being given complete control and so this isn't changing. In fact I am not even going to say this is the beginning of the end, the demise is already well under way.

You don't need to paint it in the loud beligerent tones of alex jones or anyone else for that matter, to realise that things are completely fucked up. What would be interesting to note is who was it that lobbied for this? I think this notion that this is civilian servants (governments) vs big corporations (insurance companies) is more about romanticism and less about reality.

virtuoso:

--- Quote from: ILLUMINATI CLIQUE on March 24, 2010, 03:34:33 AM ---Goddamnit its a shame....I don't want the US to fuck out and elano...you guys paint a depressing picture of the US future, but theres some good analysis here so respect all around.






Sure China is growing, but don't forget their government are so uptight...that is going to hold them back, keep companies from expanding there..



The US is still the world's largest economy (so says the CIA factbook)...its still dwarfes China...China would have to DOUBLE its economy to overtake the US. The US economy still dwarfs the fuck out of any country's economy. Only the EU (as a collective of many many countries) is bigger than the US.


--- End quote ---

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article6996208.ece within about a decade at current rates, China will have overtaken America. Perhaps it will take a few more years, or even a few less years, it depends how rapidly the U.S decline is. What we know is that conservatively China has a surplus of over a trillion and America well who really knows the true debt figure. The U.S is a great innovator that is true, but it's the U.S companies who are based in China who are the juggernauts. You are right it is a very depressing picture, but then again under this current system there is nothing to feel jubilant or optimistic about, they giveth, then they taketh away.

Matty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/kk_1_SCEQKE

Javier:
Kucinich in principle wants more government involvement of the health care industry.  He actually settled for less.

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