Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Raiders get themselves a QB!!!!
Shallow:
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:16:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ancient Chinese Secret on April 26, 2010, 08:10:00 PM ---related thru uncle...lol
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seriously...Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio made a good point. And I dont really agree with this guy all the time. But when he talked about Jamarcus he basically said that Jamarcus has probably been that kid that was bigger and stronger than everyone else. When he tried to make a team, his athletisism growing up got him over the top. Because of that, he never had to develop a very strong work ethic. He didnt need it. At some point...he ran into a league (NFL) where everyone is big and strong...and more often then not, the guys with the best work ethics stand out. In his case, the guy with the worst work ethic...is standing out also. You dont become the biggest bust of all time without the blame being on you.
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I never met him or even like him, but why wasn't he bringing cheeseburger to practice and getting fat? He wasn't handed the starting job at LSU. He competed with Flynn to get it. LSU is a tight ship organization while the Raiders could have the 1988 Niners roster and still find a way to miss the playoffs.
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:21:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:00:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 07:53:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 07:42:32 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ancient Chinese Secret on April 26, 2010, 07:28:30 PM ---aite as long as others agree that he wasnt and isnt 100%at fault...cuz IMO he isnt and im not a raider fan...but the way everyone went in on him and still do is uncalled for......other qb's never caught the same heat as russell did...and please dont say it was cuz of the guranteed money..lol
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 07:24:12 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ancient Chinese Secret on April 26, 2010, 06:19:59 PM ---wait so doesnt that make russell not at 100% fault...? lol
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on April 22, 2010, 07:36:58 PM ---you guys could have Peyton Manning & you wouldn't win 8 games lol.
the Raiders are just fucked; if they make the Playoffs within the next 10 seasons (unless Al Davis dies in the next two), i'll be shocked.
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nobody ever claimed he was 100% at fault. But if youre educated on football then you understand how much of an effect a QB THAT bad as on an entire organization. We arent just talking about how much he hurts the team ON the field. But when you draft a QB #1....you spend the next 2/3 years building AROUND that guy. When he gives you absolutely nothing....you end up sucking, and you end up having to start over. Again, all of this is for an educated football fan. You gotta do some reading man...learn up on the game. There is a reason why he will more then likely be cut by the Raiders. lol CUT! Because they wouldnt be able to trade him for a Double Cheeseburger off the dollar menu right now. He has a VERY strong shot at going down as the biggest bust in NFL history. He will compete with Ryan Leaf. But I can honestly say I would take Leaf over JaMarcus...based on what we have seen from both. And Im sure Cham is knowledgeable enough about the game that he was making a joke...and knows better.
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of course he isnt 100% at fault. Im sayin....not 100% at fault for the teams struggles. He IS 100% at fault for himself becoming the biggest bust ever. At first I defended the guy SO much cus he was drafted by a team with a lot of turmoil at the time. But his lack of effort whatsoever...is all on him. And THAT is the reason he will go down as the biggest bust ever. The team was already struggling when they got him...and he actually made them worse. And when you draft a QB with the #1 overall pick...you would expect that your team would be better with that guy. He was worse than any QB theyve had....EVER really lol. If you can bring in a guy like Gradkowski last year...who wouldnt start on ONE team in the league....and they team place twice as good with him under center, there is clearly a problem with JaMarcus. No one can argue how much he hurt the team.
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I agree that Jamarcus is hurting the team, and I agree that he couldn't step up and be a leader and instead stepped down further than any of the greats would have stepped down. But I'm not saying he'd ever be good enough to be an all time great. I'm saying that on a real team like the Vikings, the Pats, or the Packers he'd be good enough to be a starter if raised properly in the system.
Would any of the hall of fame QBs have been as bad as Russel has been? Maybe not, but I never said he'd ever be good enough to get in the hall of fame. (that being said if he ended up on a great team and just played average and that team won 2 rings he would get in but that's only because he's a QB on a winning team).
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you are taking this "the QB is only as good as the system" thing WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too far. Jamarcus would suck anywhere. Would he win more games playing for the Pats. Maybe so. Would they make the playoffs with him being the starter? LOL not a chance.
Lets look at the bottom half of the 1st round of the draft. Isnt it a bit of a coincidence that teams with the better records...also have the best QBs...
18 Steelers 9-7
19 Falcons 9-7
20 Texans 9-7
21 Bengals 10-6
22 Patriots 10-6
23 Packers 11-5
24 Eagles 11-5
25 Ravens 9-7
26 Cardinals 10-6
27 Cowboys 11-5
28 Chargers 13-3
29 Jets 9-7 .516
30 Vikings 12-4
31 Colts 14-2
32 Saints 13-3
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Put most of those QBs on the top half of the draft and the top half will still be the top half. Brees has some bad years on the Chargers recently. Manning wouldn't do much for St Louis. The Vikings were a double digit win team with no QB. The Jets had a rookie who played it safe and won with running. You think Sanchez would have made Oakland more than 6-10? Rivers is an overrated joke. Buffalo would still have a top ten draft pick this year with him. Romo on the Skins would mean nothing. Brady on the Browns would mean nothing. Both would still be top half draft teams. Same for Warner on the Bucs, McNabb on the Chiefs, or Rogers on the Seahawks. Niners woudn't be all that much better with Flacco. And Eli is just as good or better than Palmer, Roth, Schaub, or Ryan.
The whole the QB is the key thing can work for a lot of people, but the truth is the QB isn't just 1 of the three aspects of the game. It's one fifth of one of the key aspects of the game. Offense, Defense and Special teams win games, and if you down right lose in two of the three you lose the game. With in offense is play calling, passing, rushing, blocking, and route running. Some QBs are better than other sure, but isn't it also a coincidence that the so called best QBs of all time also had some of the best OCs, o-lines, receivers, and runners playing with them? No QB gets all of those things at a high level, but the QBs on the bottom half of your draft list get at least two to go with the 1 and have 3 of the 5 at least at a high level. While the QBs at the top half of your list barely have 1 of the 5 to to add to their 1 even if they were elite QBs.
Very few losing teams would turn around last year because of position changing. The Bills are the only team I can think that were a great team with great players but terrible pass plays were the killer, but even then Manning is the only QB that could mean anything there for 09, and that's only because you get a new OC with his mind and that makes 2 aspects going from 0 to 1. A great QB with no OC can't do much on a team with a bad o-line too.
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lol are you a Bills fan?
You attempt to use logic alot in your arguments...and then when something so obvious as the bottom 15 teams in the draft have the best QBs....and the 17 teams who are drafting early..have the worst QBs....you try to ignore it lol There ALWAYS exceptions. But the rare exception doesnt change the obvious trend.
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:27:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:16:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ancient Chinese Secret on April 26, 2010, 08:10:00 PM ---related thru uncle...lol
--- End quote ---
seriously...Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio made a good point. And I dont really agree with this guy all the time. But when he talked about Jamarcus he basically said that Jamarcus has probably been that kid that was bigger and stronger than everyone else. When he tried to make a team, his athletisism growing up got him over the top. Because of that, he never had to develop a very strong work ethic. He didnt need it. At some point...he ran into a league (NFL) where everyone is big and strong...and more often then not, the guys with the best work ethics stand out. In his case, the guy with the worst work ethic...is standing out also. You dont become the biggest bust of all time without the blame being on you.
--- End quote ---
I never met him or even like him, but why wasn't he bringing cheeseburger to practice and getting fat? He wasn't handed the starting job at LSU. He competed with Flynn to get it. LSU is a tight ship organization while the Raiders could have the 1988 Niners roster and still find a way to miss the playoffs.
--- End quote ---
you clearly have another agenda with your arguments. You must really hate the Raiders. Did they do something to you? lol I think we can all agree...hopefully you can accept the truth on this one....that college and the Pros are two completely different games sometimes. Then again...you think Tebow was a great choice. Even while virtually every other analyst in the world sees it as stupid. Gino Toretta was an amazing college QB...Heisman winner even. Didnt quite workout in the pros lol Id imagine youd think that was all because of the franchise he was drafted to...not just him.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:31:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:27:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:16:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ancient Chinese Secret on April 26, 2010, 08:10:00 PM ---related thru uncle...lol
--- End quote ---
seriously...Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio made a good point. And I dont really agree with this guy all the time. But when he talked about Jamarcus he basically said that Jamarcus has probably been that kid that was bigger and stronger than everyone else. When he tried to make a team, his athletisism growing up got him over the top. Because of that, he never had to develop a very strong work ethic. He didnt need it. At some point...he ran into a league (NFL) where everyone is big and strong...and more often then not, the guys with the best work ethics stand out. In his case, the guy with the worst work ethic...is standing out also. You dont become the biggest bust of all time without the blame being on you.
--- End quote ---
I never met him or even like him, but why wasn't he bringing cheeseburger to practice and getting fat? He wasn't handed the starting job at LSU. He competed with Flynn to get it. LSU is a tight ship organization while the Raiders could have the 1988 Niners roster and still find a way to miss the playoffs.
--- End quote ---
you clearly have another agenda with your arguments. You must really hate the Raiders. Did they do something to you? lol I think we can all agree...hopefully you can accept the truth on this one....that college and the Pros are two completely different games sometimes. Then again...you think Tebow was a great choice. Even while virtually every other analyst in the world sees it as stupid. Gino Toretta was an amazing college QB...Heisman winner even. Didnt quite workout in the pros lol Id imagine youd think that was all because of the franchise he was drafted to...not just him.
--- End quote ---
There's no agenda. Just a philosophy. Some QBs don't have the talent or style for the pros, but that has nothing to do with getting fat and giving up. Losing does that to some people.
I solidly believe in my philosphoes. Brady and Griese were the exact same player in te exact same system, and one went to a struggling on their way out Broncos while the other went to the one their way up Pats. Reverse their teams and you'd reverse their careers.
Gino Toretta never had a chance for me to judge him. They played him at backup every where he went and deemed him unworthy from day one before the draft even started.
You know they did the same thing with Doug Flutie. Shit, even shipped him up here to Canada for most of his prime. Then in 98 he finally got a shot to start on a decent team, my Bills, and took us to the playoffs both years he started. Then they benched him on playoff day for no reason and we lost, and never got back to the playoffs since. And if I told you in 97 that Doug Flutie would come to the Bills and take the 6-10 Bills after a 0-3 start in a transition year to 10-6 and 11-5 you'd laugh at me as you should. But it happened, because he got a real chance to shine on a good team. So who knows what would have happened to Gino Toretta if there wasa Josh McDaniels of the time that felt this guy was the future of a franchise and gave him a real chance.
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:45:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:31:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:27:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:16:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ancient Chinese Secret on April 26, 2010, 08:10:00 PM ---related thru uncle...lol
--- End quote ---
seriously...Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio made a good point. And I dont really agree with this guy all the time. But when he talked about Jamarcus he basically said that Jamarcus has probably been that kid that was bigger and stronger than everyone else. When he tried to make a team, his athletisism growing up got him over the top. Because of that, he never had to develop a very strong work ethic. He didnt need it. At some point...he ran into a league (NFL) where everyone is big and strong...and more often then not, the guys with the best work ethics stand out. In his case, the guy with the worst work ethic...is standing out also. You dont become the biggest bust of all time without the blame being on you.
--- End quote ---
I never met him or even like him, but why wasn't he bringing cheeseburger to practice and getting fat? He wasn't handed the starting job at LSU. He competed with Flynn to get it. LSU is a tight ship organization while the Raiders could have the 1988 Niners roster and still find a way to miss the playoffs.
--- End quote ---
you clearly have another agenda with your arguments. You must really hate the Raiders. Did they do something to you? lol I think we can all agree...hopefully you can accept the truth on this one....that college and the Pros are two completely different games sometimes. Then again...you think Tebow was a great choice. Even while virtually every other analyst in the world sees it as stupid. Gino Toretta was an amazing college QB...Heisman winner even. Didnt quite workout in the pros lol Id imagine youd think that was all because of the franchise he was drafted to...not just him.
--- End quote ---
There's no agenda. Just a philosophy. Some QBs don't have the talent or style for the pros, but that has nothing to do with getting fat and giving up. Losing does that to some people.
I solidly believe in my philosphoes. Brady and Griese were the exact same player in te exact same system, and one went to a struggling on their way out Broncos while the other went to the one their way up Pats. Reverse their teams and you'd reverse their careers.
Gino Toretta never had a chance for me to judge him. They played him at backup every where he went and deemed him unworthy from day one before the draft even started.
You know they did the same thing with Doug Flutie. Shit, even shipped him up here to Canada for most of his prime. Then in 98 he finally got a shot to start on a decent team, my Bills, and took us to the playoffs both years he started. Then they benched him on playoff day for no reason and we lost, and never got back to the playoffs since. And if I told you in 97 that Doug Flutie would come to the Bills and take the 6-10 Bills after a 0-3 start in a transition year to 10-6 and 11-5 you'd laugh at me as you should. But it happened, because he got a real chance to shine on a good team. So who knows what would have happened to Gino Toretta if there wasa Josh McDaniels of the time that felt this guy was the future of a franchise and gave him a real chance.
--- End quote ---
The problem is you believe in your philosphy so strongly that you ignore certain things that are clearly obvious to everyone else. I agree to an extent that the system can help or hurt a QB. I dont think the system is gonna turn a bad QB into a HOF'er and a Great QB into a bust. Being a great QB is as much about being a leader as it is about being a talent. Jeff George was one of the most talented passers EVER. Even Shanahan said "Out of the ten best passes ive ever seen, George threw 8 of em". He couldnt put together a solid career ANYwhere he went. He didnt have the mindset to play QB in the NFL...no matter how great his arm was. Jamarcus has neither the arm...the will...the work ethic...or the mindset. He has a strong arm. But cmon man. You think the organization being chaotic should keep him from making throws that a decent high school QB would make?
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