Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Jason Campbell headed to Oakland
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 27, 2010, 09:23:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on April 27, 2010, 09:16:10 PM ---you are comparing two completely different things. I'll give you Moss, because WR is actually the most depended position in the NFL. Without a good system, a WR is useless. Without a line, the QB has no time, and at the time the Raiders had Aaron Brooks, so there was no one to get the ball to Moss. That was clearly a case of a WR being on a bad team.
Russell is different. The Raiders had one of the best running games in the league. One year, the line was so good under Kiffen that JUSTIN FUCKIN' VARGAS... LITTLE HUGGIE BOY gain 1,000 yards, and the Raider's line dominated. Russell was asked to be the leader. I understood the first couple of years, but when you get out played by Bruce Gradkowski, an undrafted journey man, and you are suppose to be the number 1 draft pick, then there is something completely wrong. Case close
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 27, 2010, 09:06:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on April 27, 2010, 08:36:01 PM ---It is completely hatred to think that the Raiders are the reason to think JaMarcus is 300 pounds. Dude needed to sit out and demand a trade if he was that mad, but instead he caused the Raiders to make a trade for a QB. Here is the point of how stupid Russell is, dude could have got in shape, demanded a trade and that his not playing for the Raiders, people will say, hey look his trying but who can do it with the Raiders, he'd get traded for dirt cheap and have a new team and keep his 9 million salary. Instead he got fat, said fuck it, and then the Raiders got Campbell and now no one will trade for him, and if the Raiders end up cutting him, his 9 million dollars short, and you know Al will sue him for his bonus back. Russell had it made and he fucked it up, and I am telling you right now, he cost himself 9 million dollars. It's all about dollars and sense, and dude's lack of sense cost him major dollars.
--- End quote ---
No. Russel is the reason he's 300 lbs. The Raiders just had an environment that let him do whatever he wanted. Just like Big Ben is the reason he likes to go around with an entourage get drunk and have sex with even drunker girls. The Raiders would have let him go further and he would have done worse things. That is my theory.
It's like how if a wild party althlete was signed to NY or Miami and got in trouble partying. But if he was signed by Green Bay there would be no wild parties to get him in trouble.
Jesus. Look at Randy Moss for Christ sakes. A fucking star in Minnesota goes to Oakland and stinks it up. Then goes back to a real organization and gets the TD record, and remains a star when a QB who hadn't started since high school came in.
Case closed boys. Oakland can make the best WR in the era look like junk, so I think they can make Russel worse too.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
So when Brady went out in 08 you think Cassel stepped up as leader? He didn't. Moss was way more a leader on that Pats team that year. He really stepped up. In Oakland it was about a lot more than a QB not having time. Moss was going soft on route, not trying hard to get the ball. He was uninspired. Aaron Brooks could have easily punted the ball and let Moss jump up over two DBs and catch it, but Moss, thanks to the wonderful Raiders organization had no fire. He was allowed to be whatever he wanted. Something Dennis Green and Bill Belicheck don't allow of their players with out putting up a fight. In Oakland you're so busy trying to keep your job as a coach and dealing with Al that you don't bother with your players.
--- End quote ---
See, you are talking about things that go on, but at the same time by this logic we'd have no 1,000 running back because they'd be uninspired, we'd have a shitty defense, which we don't, and we'd have horrible cornerbacks, which last I check we have the best two CBs in the league. Randy Moss was uninspired his last 2 years in MN, you forget I live in MN, and people were begging to trade him because of how bad he was his last two years, and he carried that over to Oakland. Moss came to life in New England because it was a winning situation and he knew this was his chance. The Raiders will not be mistaken for that in the mid to late 2000's.
But the Raiders the last 3-4 years have had a great running game, one of the best defenses, a pro-bowl caliber tightend, and a huge bully offensive line. Russell was given the keys to the franchise, which I'd honestly say we should have developed him more. I think the biggest mistake was letting Culpepper go, because if we kept Culpepper, Russell would have someone to learn from, not just shadowing but what a good QB leader does. I am a believer that young QBs need someone to show them the ropes, which Russell only had his first year and he spent most of that first year sitting out of training camp. So in that aspect the Raiders did Russell a disservice. But the rest is pure Russell.
I want you to honestly tell me, which would Russell more likely do in his spare time, work out like other NFL players, who most every franchise trust to work out on their own, or would Russell try to eat all of....
[img]http://17.media.tumblr.com/i2dw5nf19o302zzcRu7VfNVdo1_500.jpg/img]
you gon always be my latin queen bitch:
but the fact that they did him wrong or its not completely his fault...is important
does the fact that they change coaches and players so quik have any role in this
qb's: garcia (who didnt even play, why tho when he can prolly still make plays), russell, gannon (was dope, and he has even offered his service to help but davis has said no..lol)
coaches: gruden, kiffin, cable guy
Shallow:
--- Quote from: M Dogg on April 27, 2010, 09:36:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 27, 2010, 09:23:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on April 27, 2010, 09:16:10 PM ---you are comparing two completely different things. I'll give you Moss, because WR is actually the most depended position in the NFL. Without a good system, a WR is useless. Without a line, the QB has no time, and at the time the Raiders had Aaron Brooks, so there was no one to get the ball to Moss. That was clearly a case of a WR being on a bad team.
Russell is different. The Raiders had one of the best running games in the league. One year, the line was so good under Kiffen that JUSTIN FUCKIN' VARGAS... LITTLE HUGGIE BOY gain 1,000 yards, and the Raider's line dominated. Russell was asked to be the leader. I understood the first couple of years, but when you get out played by Bruce Gradkowski, an undrafted journey man, and you are suppose to be the number 1 draft pick, then there is something completely wrong. Case close
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 27, 2010, 09:06:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on April 27, 2010, 08:36:01 PM ---It is completely hatred to think that the Raiders are the reason to think JaMarcus is 300 pounds. Dude needed to sit out and demand a trade if he was that mad, but instead he caused the Raiders to make a trade for a QB. Here is the point of how stupid Russell is, dude could have got in shape, demanded a trade and that his not playing for the Raiders, people will say, hey look his trying but who can do it with the Raiders, he'd get traded for dirt cheap and have a new team and keep his 9 million salary. Instead he got fat, said fuck it, and then the Raiders got Campbell and now no one will trade for him, and if the Raiders end up cutting him, his 9 million dollars short, and you know Al will sue him for his bonus back. Russell had it made and he fucked it up, and I am telling you right now, he cost himself 9 million dollars. It's all about dollars and sense, and dude's lack of sense cost him major dollars.
--- End quote ---
No. Russel is the reason he's 300 lbs. The Raiders just had an environment that let him do whatever he wanted. Just like Big Ben is the reason he likes to go around with an entourage get drunk and have sex with even drunker girls. The Raiders would have let him go further and he would have done worse things. That is my theory.
It's like how if a wild party althlete was signed to NY or Miami and got in trouble partying. But if he was signed by Green Bay there would be no wild parties to get him in trouble.
Jesus. Look at Randy Moss for Christ sakes. A fucking star in Minnesota goes to Oakland and stinks it up. Then goes back to a real organization and gets the TD record, and remains a star when a QB who hadn't started since high school came in.
Case closed boys. Oakland can make the best WR in the era look like junk, so I think they can make Russel worse too.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
So when Brady went out in 08 you think Cassel stepped up as leader? He didn't. Moss was way more a leader on that Pats team that year. He really stepped up. In Oakland it was about a lot more than a QB not having time. Moss was going soft on route, not trying hard to get the ball. He was uninspired. Aaron Brooks could have easily punted the ball and let Moss jump up over two DBs and catch it, but Moss, thanks to the wonderful Raiders organization had no fire. He was allowed to be whatever he wanted. Something Dennis Green and Bill Belicheck don't allow of their players with out putting up a fight. In Oakland you're so busy trying to keep your job as a coach and dealing with Al that you don't bother with your players.
--- End quote ---
See, you are talking about things that go on, but at the same time by this logic we'd have no 1,000 running back because they'd be uninspired, we'd have a shitty defense, which we don't, and we'd have horrible cornerbacks, which last I check we have the best two CBs in the league. Randy Moss was uninspired his last 2 years in MN, you forget I live in MN, and people were begging to trade him because of how bad he was his last two years, and he carried that over to Oakland. Moss came to life in New England because it was a winning situation and he knew this was his chance. The Raiders will not be mistaken for that in the mid to late 2000's.
But the Raiders the last 3-4 years have had a great running game, one of the best defenses, a pro-bowl caliber tightend, and a huge bully offensive line. Russell was given the keys to the franchise, which I'd honestly say we should have developed him more. I think the biggest mistake was letting Culpepper go, because if we kept Culpepper, Russell would have someone to learn from, not just shadowing but what a good QB leader does. I am a believer that young QBs need someone to show them the ropes, which Russell only had his first year and he spent most of that first year sitting out of training camp. So in that aspect the Raiders did Russell a disservice. But the rest is pure Russell.
I want you to honestly tell me, which would Russell more likely do in his spare time, work out like other NFL players, who most every franchise trust to work out on their own, or would Russell try to eat all of....
[img]http://17.media.tumblr.com/i2dw5nf19o302zzcRu7VfNVdo1_500.jpg/img]
--- End quote ---
Last two years? His second last year in Minnesota was a career year for him, and in his last year he missed 3 games but was on pace for 1000 yards and another 17 TDs. You call those so bad he needs a trade numbers? He came into Oakland pretty decent, but by year two was a less than average WR.
And the point I made about the Oakland was they let you get away with shit that you do anyway. Peyton Manning is a war horse work a holic. If he went to Oakland he'd be fine. But a slacker becomes a bigger slacker, and a rapist becomes a killer, or whatever. You can still have great players who are always dedicated players no matter what. Bu if you're a star with a risk of going Hollywood then Oakland is the worst place for you. Moss is a diva, so going to Oakland helped him find more coke and more Bobby Browns, if you get the analogy.
Hardworking players with everything to lose will still work hard because they are afraid of losing their spot. Guys like Russel and Moss just assume they're stars. It's their personality. But superstars that are work horses, like Jerry Rice do fine.
P.S. you guys didn't have more than 3 1000 rushers this decade and no one has broken 1050 since Napoleon Kaufman in 1997. Unless I'm missing someone.
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: Ancient Chinese Secret on April 27, 2010, 09:52:26 PM ---but the fact that they did him wrong or its not completely his fault...is important
does the fact that they change coaches and players so quik have any role in this
qb's: garcia (who didnt even play, why tho when he can prolly still make plays), russell, gannon (was dope, and he has even offered his service to help but davis has said no..lol)
coaches: gruden, kiffin, cable guy
--- End quote ---
Okay, when he was drafted, they had Kiffen as his coach, they only changed coaches to Cable, who ran the EXACT same system. Also, they had the same offensive coordinator, and then this year hired a QB coach to help develop him further, a coach who just developed Joe Flacco. This decade, yeah you can argue from Gannon to Collins to Aaron Brooks to Culpepper to Jamarcus Russell, and from Gruden to Callahan to Turner to Shell to Kiffen to Cable that the Raiders have had a horrible time building a franchise, but during the Russell era there was actually a bit of stability and the Raiders didn't touch their system.
you gon always be my latin queen bitch:
thats alot to deal wit tho.....put money on it gruden could get him back and make him a good player....if that dont work then.....no further options...
off topic but on topic in gruden regards......IMO gruden is one of the best @ guidin, coachin, teachin etc....he needs to get back to coachin....the raiders didnt appreciate him.....and didnt he win a superbowl with tampa bay? lol
--- Quote from: M Dogg on April 27, 2010, 10:06:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ancient Chinese Secret on April 27, 2010, 09:52:26 PM ---but the fact that they did him wrong or its not completely his fault...is important
does the fact that they change coaches and players so quik have any role in this
qb's: garcia (who didnt even play, why tho when he can prolly still make plays), russell, gannon (was dope, and he has even offered his service to help but davis has said no..lol)
coaches: gruden, kiffin, cable guy
--- End quote ---
Okay, when he was drafted, they had Kiffen as his coach, they only changed coaches to Cable, who ran the EXACT same system. Also, they had the same offensive coordinator, and then this year hired a QB coach to help develop him further, a coach who just developed Joe Flacco. This decade, yeah you can argue from Gannon to Collins to Aaron Brooks to Culpepper to Jamarcus Russell, and from Gruden to Callahan to Turner to Shell to Kiffen to Cable that the Raiders have had a horrible time building a franchise, but during the Russell era there was actually a bit of stability and the Raiders didn't touch their system.
--- End quote ---
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