Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Why So Many Old People Are Stupid
the ghost:
I think that its impossible to quantify intelligence. Sure grandma might not be able to program your Ipod, but she may know how to knit a sweater. Which of those skills is better to have? Which denotes greater intelligence? For me with age comes perspective. Chances are you have seen more ups and downs and can appreciate when they occur instead of freaking out about it.
Matty:
--- Quote from: the ghost on May 04, 2010, 11:09:41 AM ---I think that its impossible to quantify intelligence. Sure grandma might not be able to program your Ipod, but she may know how to knit a sweater. Which of those skills is better to have? Which denotes greater intelligence? For me with age comes perspective. Chances are you have seen more ups and downs and can appreciate when they occur instead of freaking out about it.
--- End quote ---
i don't think either of those skills denotes greater intelligence. i think raw logical abilities and being able to do 'complicated' things is too linear a way to think about intelligence. i would gauge it by our self-reflexivity, adaptability and ability to keep learning new things and bettering ourselves.
i think current generations, to an extent, have this adaptability as more of an embedded intrinsic value. this would be because of the increased speed the world is changing and to go along with this, less rigid ideologies.
one thing for sure, if i don't keep up with things when i get old (and i will make damn sure i try to) then i will be hustling my kids and grankids to teach me all the new shit. especially if it makes my life easier and more enjoyable. that's the irony, old people would benefit from a lot of these new technologies more than most young people.
Triple OG Rapsodie:
--- Quote from: Infinite... Be and It Is on May 04, 2010, 10:49:08 AM ---I agree with your point that Eminem does try to increase the shock value in his music. Him and Dre even admitted the importance of shock value in his music. I remember Dre saying he was wondering how the shock value on Em's second album could ever match that of the SSLP, and that he was pleasantly surprised when they completed MMLP, because he had actually topped it.
Also, Eminem says the idea behind D12 was to say the most over the top shit that they could say.
Now.. I've looked up the definition of gimmick so we can be clear...
gim·mick
/ˈgɪmɪk/ Show Spelled[gim-ik] Show IPA
-noun
1.
an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, esp. one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.
So I guess according to that definition I can't argue that Eminem makes use of "gimmick".
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...But getting back to the original argument you were saying that Em's music couldn't reflect growth because it has nothing to do with him and is just a gimmick. And I think that was a very limiting perspective to have. Because we've seen how Eminem's art has changed and grown and along with his own life.
If we take a snapshot of the progression of his albums, you'll see he went from "Backstabbers" to "Guilty Conscience" then advancing to "Stan" and then "Say Goodbye To Hollywood" and then finally reached his height and peeked out with "Lose Yourself". Now, admittedly, he lost his focus after that and he admits Relapse was a step backward.
--- End quote ---
But see, that doesn't really say anything about his state of mind. The serious songs that he throws in on his albums are more a commentary on the state of his career than anything else. He couldn't have made the song Stan for the SSLP, regardless of where his mind state was because he hadn't blown up at that point. And the song Lose Yourself was tailor-made for the movie 8 Mile and described the character B Rabbit. Relapse was his "return album", basically a return to form where he had been gone a while and came back trying to up the bar with controversy. The reason he now calls it a step backwards is because the fan response to that side of Eminem was negative. If the fans had liked the silly Eminem again he would have considered it a step forward.
The direction of his albums don't necessarily say anything about Marshall Mathers the person. They are about Eminem the character. Two separate entities. The character on a record is not the same as the person who makes the record. IE. Ice Cube is a family man with a wife and kids but you wouldn't really know anything about that from listening to his latest record. You can comment all you want on the "growth" of an album, but they don't reflect the personal growth of the person who makes the record.
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
If old people ARENT more stupid....how come they cant figure out that youre not supposed to go 45 in the fast lane? :-\
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: rapsodie sees the bitch in you on May 04, 2010, 03:40:54 PM ---
But see, that doesn't really say anything about his state of mind. The serious songs that he throws in on his albums are more a commentary on the state of his career than anything else. He couldn't have made the song Stan for the SSLP, regardless of where his mind state was because he hadn't blown up at that point. And the song Lose Yourself was tailor-made for the movie 8 Mile and described the character B Rabbit. Relapse was his "return album", basically a return to form where he had been gone a while and came back trying to up the bar with controversy. The reason he now calls it a step backwards is because the fan response to that side of Eminem was negative. If the fans had liked the silly Eminem again he would have considered it a step forward.
The direction of his albums don't necessarily say anything about Marshall Mathers the person. They are about Eminem the character. Two separate entities. The character on a record is not the same as the person who makes the record. IE. Ice Cube is a family man with a wife and kids but you wouldn't really know anything about that from listening to his latest record. You can comment all you want on the "growth" of an album, but they don't reflect the personal growth of the person who makes the record.
--- End quote ---
Well everybody will have their opinions, some people will say Relapse was actually dope or that Infinite was his best album. But what I believe, and what Eminem has said himself, is that he grew as an artist, and each of his albums from Infinite up to Eminem Show he got better and better. In fact, after Eminem Show he was saying he believed he always had to continue to outdo himself on every album; but when he got to Relapse he said he decided to stop putting pressure on himself like that and just have fun and make music.
So if you are saying that Eminem's albums up until 2003 did not reflect a growth in his artistry, but only that success came and he was able to rap about different subject... well then you disagree with the viewpoint of most of his fans, like myself, and it also goes against Eminem's own words.
Now, so if your willing to accept Eminem's words, that he grew as an artist and outdid himself on each album up through 8 Mile. Then, getting back to my origional point, I would like to add that...
-growth as an artist = equals growth as a person-
Why? Because that is who Eminem is. That is his essence. He is an artist. That is his life, and that is how he defines himself.
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Now, as for Ice Cube. Ice Cube, I think originally defined himself as an artist, and I believe you can see growth in his work from NWA up through "Lethal Injection". So in that way he succeeded where most people fail in life like Matty was saying, and most people "become dumber as they get older". But Ice Cube continued to progress as an artist up through Lethal Injection, and then he began to define himself in different ways, such as an actor, producer, director, businessman, and although the quality of his music has since mitigated, I believe he is someone who has progressed and "became smarter as he got older". So props to him.
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