Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Why So Many Old People Are Stupid
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: rapsodie sees the bitch in you on May 05, 2010, 02:12:01 PM ---
First you were talking about his lyrics, now you seem to be talking about his success. If he was an underground no-name would you still be talking about personal growth? NO, then that comes down to his successful career, not his growth as a person. I think you are confusing the two. Good music and success don't go hand in hand. Arguably, his most intellectual records were made before he got famous. But that completely contradicts what you seem to be trying to say. In my opinion, Eminem today is smarter than Eminem before or during the time he blew up. But that is based on what I have seen of him outside of records, NOT the state of his music.
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No, my continued use of the word "art" should have made you realize I was talking about the artistic value of his work and not it's commercial success. Although at times the two can of course be related to one another.
--- Quote from: rapsodie sees the bitch in you on May 05, 2010, 02:12:01 PM ---
I still think you're a fool if you gauge personal growth by the personality of a record. Once again, there is this thing called the "poetic voice," which is rarely the same as the poet. If you believe Eminem is a "true artist", then you would know about the poetic voice and that it is used by "true artists." I think hip hop fans get too caught up in "keeping it real" and forget that it is art, not a biographical story. In other words, the art may impersonate reality, but it is not in fact reality.
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I still think you're a fool for totally writing off the fact that a person's value's and way of life will be reflected in their lyrics. Cause although Eminem may not of killed anybody it's still an expression of angst, or of a thought that was going on in his brain at the time. If Eminem and Kim had a relationship where they never fought and they were like Michelle and Barack Obama or something then I seriously doubt he would of made songs as powerful as "97 Bonnie and Clyde" and "Kim". Because although it's fantasy, you can hear the pain in his voice. For example, 2pac wouldn't say "Fuck You Afeni" on a record because he loved his mom and they had a beautiful relationship, but Eminem had a very rough relationship with his mom, and it was reflected in his lyrics.
And even somebody like Dre who openly admits to doing it for Entertainment and had ghostwriters the number of times he rapped about killing people on the "2001" album was remarkably less then his younger days of the "Chronic" period when he was in and out of jail, and not quite as reclusive and far away from street cats.
ikke:
Seeing how this thread is already derailed.
I always saw the serious eminem songs like stan as another marketing gimmick.
After SSLP pissed of the parents of the teens who listened to it, em needed to show a serious side to please them so that the kids would still be allowed to listen to Eminem.
Triple OG Rapsodie:
--- Quote from: Infinite... Be and It Is on May 05, 2010, 03:03:55 PM ---No, my continued use of the word "art" should have made you realize I was talking about the artistic value of his work and not it's commercial success. Although at times the two can of course be related to one another.
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yes, but if you want to talk about his music as art, then you should be aware of the "poetic voice" and how it is different from the person who writes the lyrics. Of course it CAN reflect some of what the person is feeling. BUT YOU SHOULDN'T ASSUME SO. That's a necessity for interpreting art or poetry. IE the poet Milton. Scholars who study Milton don't use his poetry to define his life. It's the other way around, they use his life to understand his poems. In fact some of the feelings expressed in his poetry are contrary to his actual beliefs. Some of it was used for other reasons or to pander to certain people. (I'm taking a class on Milton right now, lol). Of course that's quite different from Eminem, but I'm using the same concept. You can't use his lyrics to assume what his life or personal beliefs are.
--- Quote from: Infinite... Be and It Is on May 05, 2010, 03:03:55 PM ---I still think you're a fool for totally writing off the fact that a person's value's and way of life will be reflected in their lyrics. Cause although Eminem may not of killed anybody it's still an expression of angst, or of a thought that was going on in his brain at the time. If Eminem and Kim had a relationship where they never fought and they were like Michelle and Barack Obama or something then I seriously doubt he would of made songs as powerful as "97 Bonnie and Clyde" and "Kim". Because although it's fantasy, you can hear the pain in his voice. For example, 2pac wouldn't say "Fuck You Afeni" on a record because he loved his mom and they had a beautiful relationship, but Eminem had a very rough relationship with his mom, and it was reflected in his lyrics.
And even somebody like Dre who openly admits to doing it for Entertainment and had ghostwriters the number of times he rapped about killing people on the "2001" album was remarkably less then his younger days of the "Chronic" period when he was in and out of jail, and not quite as reclusive and far away from street cats.
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I'm not completely writing off that his lyrics can reflect some of his feelings, I'm saying that you don't know what is or isn't based on his personal values. You can't listen to a song lyric and say "this is what Eminem believes or this is how he feels." You have to look at the man Marshall Mathers, find out his personal values from REALITY, and then use that to understand his music, not the other way around. Trust me on this. I may not be a rapper, but I do write lyrics and poetry, and half the time what I write isn't a reflection on my state of mind.
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: rapsodie sees the bitch in you on May 05, 2010, 05:14:14 PM ---
I'm not completely writing off that his lyrics can reflect some of his feelings, I'm saying that you don't know what is or isn't based on his personal values. You can't listen to a song lyric and say "this is what Eminem believes or this is how he feels." You have to look at the man Marshall Mathers, find out his personal values from REALITY, and then use that to understand his music, not the other way around. Trust me on this. I may not be a rapper, but I do write lyrics and poetry, and half the time what I write isn't a reflection on my state of mind.
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I can pretty much tell where Em is coming from when he raps, it's just an insight. Always have been able to. I think with my favorite artists I feel I have a pretty good idea where their coming from, and maybe that's why they are my favorites.
You seem to be pretty sure of yourself on this one, and so am I about what I've been saying.
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