Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Kobe...
Sccit:
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 18, 2010, 02:10:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 02:05:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 18, 2010, 01:50:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 01:14:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 17, 2010, 01:40:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 16, 2010, 02:58:31 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 16, 2010, 01:49:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 16, 2010, 11:02:01 AM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 15, 2010, 12:07:11 AM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 10, 2010, 01:09:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: LooN3y on June 09, 2010, 11:28:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: Hans Moleman on June 08, 2010, 12:22:59 PM ---the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
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lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
--- End quote ---
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
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This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
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LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
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Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
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I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
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I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
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it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
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lol
Jordan has more field goal attempts yes. For his career he has also played one more year than Kobe has so far..not to mention the years Kobe played with Shaq. Obviously Kobe took less shots. Jordan never had another big time scorer who he could feed off of like Kobe had. More FGA's is irrelevant really, because Jordan also shot a higher percentage from the field. So he not only was the better scorer as far as averages, scoring titles, etc...he was also the more efficient scorer. As far as Jordan being untouchable lol. Jordan averaged 8.4 Free Throws/game (Playoffs included). Kobe is at 7.6 (Playoffs included). Youre talking LESS than 1 FTA per game difference lol. Hardly enough to close the gap between Kobe and Jordan. And when you do it on a per minute basis, its even closer. Seeing as how Kobe played the entire year his first two seasons...but only averaged 15 and 26 minutes per game those two seasons. It makes his FT per game look lower when compared to Jordan who played starter minutes from the beginning. Per minute, your talkin Jordan averaging a FTA every 4.6 minutes...and Kobe every 4.8 minutes. Pretty damn close for people who say Kobe doesnt get any calls lol
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pretty stupid to try and argue the fact that Jordan was way more respected by the refs...pretty much NO ONE out there would argue that. But go ahead, whatever helps your side of shit, right? LOL. I meant to say, in a single game, Jordan has attempted more field goals than Kobe. Jordan's career high in field goal attempts are higher than Kobe's...yet Kobe's career high in scoring is higher than Jordan's...Jordan was a more efficient scorer than Kobe as Tony Parker is a more efficient scorer than Jason Kidd...Does that make him a better player? No. It's just that Tony Parker doesn't have as much of an outside shot, so most of his shot attempts come within 5 feet of the basket...When Kobe is on fire, he is untouchable, from anywhere on the court...I've seen Kobe hit some shots that Jordan wasn't able to, and you can't really deny that, because Jordan wasn't known for his range...Fact of the matter is, we can debate this for hours, but don't argue the common notions, such as Jordan being protected by the refs, while Kobe's respect with the refs is still in question, globally...PeACe
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We were talking about scoring. Not who is a better player...so youre Parker/Kidd comparison makes no sense. If you want to get into who is a better player, then it is even EASIER to prove Jordan was lol. The only arguing point that Kobe fans have had...is his scoring ability and Ive already shows how Jordan was not only the bigger scorer...but the more efficient scorer. And the refs arent the reason as him and Kobe shoot virtually the same amount of FT per minute played. Which as teecee said...is amazing considering Jordan attacked the basket more than Kobe who shoots more jumpers. Im sure you have enough basketball knowledge to know that you are more likely to draw fouls driving to the hoop...than shooting outside jumpers. So how come Kobe is shooting almost the same amount of Free Throws? lol
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Why are there free throw attempts per game similar? easy...Kobe gets hammered way more than Jordan did. he gets fouled on virtually every play...players do it because they know they can get away with it, unlike with Jordan...that, and the fact that it's the only way to defend him...also, Jordan never saw the type of double and triple teams that Kobe has seen...and the point I was making is that Jordan has attempted more field goals than Kobe in one game, but hasn't scored more...why is that? Because Kobe has a wider arsenal on offense...he can beat you in more ways, and this is really not even debated by many...PeACe
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 02:11:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 18, 2010, 01:54:13 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 01:14:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 17, 2010, 01:40:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 16, 2010, 02:58:31 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 16, 2010, 01:49:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 16, 2010, 11:02:01 AM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 15, 2010, 12:07:11 AM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 10, 2010, 01:09:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: LooN3y on June 09, 2010, 11:28:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: Hans Moleman on June 08, 2010, 12:22:59 PM ---the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
--- End quote ---
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
--- End quote ---
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
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This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
--- End quote ---
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
--- End quote ---
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
--- End quote ---
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
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I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
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it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
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Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
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both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.
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lol Their poor offense made the defense look good. It wasnt just amazing defensive stops...it was sloppy play on offense by both teams. Seriously, this was one of the worst finals series Ive ever seen as far as quality of play. The Lakers deserve the title, they won...point blank. But I guarantee you this isnt what you or any other Kobe fan was hoping for. You guys were hoping to see Kobe dominate and solidify his spot in history. He didnt though, and everyone knows that. You just hate to accept it. Its a championship, so good for him and the Lakers. But yes, luck played a role. Passion too, I wont take that away from them. But I DO believe if Perkins played...the Celtics might have won game 7.
Sccit:
--- Quote from: PLANT on June 18, 2010, 02:19:17 PM ---LMAO NIK STILL sucking Kobes dick off on dubcc after all these years!!!
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more like people still tryna downplay Kobe's greatness, after his second consecutive Finals MVP...Funny...that was your first post regarding Kobe after he just won the title, and it was about me...that's a little closer to sucking dick than discussing the actual game and statistics within the game.
Sccit:
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 18, 2010, 02:20:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 02:11:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 18, 2010, 01:54:13 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 01:14:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 17, 2010, 01:40:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 16, 2010, 02:58:31 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 16, 2010, 01:49:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 16, 2010, 11:02:01 AM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 15, 2010, 12:07:11 AM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 10, 2010, 01:09:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: LooN3y on June 09, 2010, 11:28:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: Hans Moleman on June 08, 2010, 12:22:59 PM ---the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
--- End quote ---
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
--- End quote ---
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
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This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
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LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
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Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
--- End quote ---
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
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I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
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it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
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Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
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both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.
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lol Their poor offense made the defense look good. It wasnt just amazing defensive stops...it was sloppy play on offense by both teams. Seriously, this was one of the worst finals series Ive ever seen as far as quality of play. The Lakers deserve the title, they won...point blank. But I guarantee you this isnt what you or any other Kobe fan was hoping for. You guys were hoping to see Kobe dominate and solidify his spot in history. He didnt though, and everyone knows that. You just hate to accept it. Its a championship, so good for him and the Lakers. But yes, luck played a role. Passion too, I wont take that away from them. But I DO believe if Perkins played...the Celtics might have won game 7.
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what do u mean this isn't what we were hoping for? we just took out boston in a finals game 7, how fucking stupid can u make urself sound?! lmao...this is everything we were hoping for and much, MUCH more...laker fans are straight thizzin, all across LA....and the mufuckin world.
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 02:20:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 18, 2010, 02:10:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 02:05:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 18, 2010, 01:50:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 01:14:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 17, 2010, 01:40:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 16, 2010, 02:58:31 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 16, 2010, 01:49:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 16, 2010, 11:02:01 AM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 15, 2010, 12:07:11 AM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on June 10, 2010, 01:09:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: LooN3y on June 09, 2010, 11:28:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: Hans Moleman on June 08, 2010, 12:22:59 PM ---the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
--- End quote ---
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
--- End quote ---
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
--- End quote ---
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
--- End quote ---
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
--- End quote ---
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
--- End quote ---
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
--- End quote ---
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
--- End quote ---
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
--- End quote ---
lol
Jordan has more field goal attempts yes. For his career he has also played one more year than Kobe has so far..not to mention the years Kobe played with Shaq. Obviously Kobe took less shots. Jordan never had another big time scorer who he could feed off of like Kobe had. More FGA's is irrelevant really, because Jordan also shot a higher percentage from the field. So he not only was the better scorer as far as averages, scoring titles, etc...he was also the more efficient scorer. As far as Jordan being untouchable lol. Jordan averaged 8.4 Free Throws/game (Playoffs included). Kobe is at 7.6 (Playoffs included). Youre talking LESS than 1 FTA per game difference lol. Hardly enough to close the gap between Kobe and Jordan. And when you do it on a per minute basis, its even closer. Seeing as how Kobe played the entire year his first two seasons...but only averaged 15 and 26 minutes per game those two seasons. It makes his FT per game look lower when compared to Jordan who played starter minutes from the beginning. Per minute, your talkin Jordan averaging a FTA every 4.6 minutes...and Kobe every 4.8 minutes. Pretty damn close for people who say Kobe doesnt get any calls lol
--- End quote ---
pretty stupid to try and argue the fact that Jordan was way more respected by the refs...pretty much NO ONE out there would argue that. But go ahead, whatever helps your side of shit, right? LOL. I meant to say, in a single game, Jordan has attempted more field goals than Kobe. Jordan's career high in field goal attempts are higher than Kobe's...yet Kobe's career high in scoring is higher than Jordan's...Jordan was a more efficient scorer than Kobe as Tony Parker is a more efficient scorer than Jason Kidd...Does that make him a better player? No. It's just that Tony Parker doesn't have as much of an outside shot, so most of his shot attempts come within 5 feet of the basket...When Kobe is on fire, he is untouchable, from anywhere on the court...I've seen Kobe hit some shots that Jordan wasn't able to, and you can't really deny that, because Jordan wasn't known for his range...Fact of the matter is, we can debate this for hours, but don't argue the common notions, such as Jordan being protected by the refs, while Kobe's respect with the refs is still in question, globally...PeACe
--- End quote ---
We were talking about scoring. Not who is a better player...so youre Parker/Kidd comparison makes no sense. If you want to get into who is a better player, then it is even EASIER to prove Jordan was lol. The only arguing point that Kobe fans have had...is his scoring ability and Ive already shows how Jordan was not only the bigger scorer...but the more efficient scorer. And the refs arent the reason as him and Kobe shoot virtually the same amount of FT per minute played. Which as teecee said...is amazing considering Jordan attacked the basket more than Kobe who shoots more jumpers. Im sure you have enough basketball knowledge to know that you are more likely to draw fouls driving to the hoop...than shooting outside jumpers. So how come Kobe is shooting almost the same amount of Free Throws? lol
--- End quote ---
Why are there free throw attempts per game similar? easy...Kobe gets hammered way more than Jordan did. he gets fouled on virtually every play...players do it because they know they can get away with it, unlike with Jordan...that, and the fact that it's the only way to defend him...also, Jordan never saw the type of double and triple teams that Kobe has seen...and the point I was making is that Jordan has attempted more field goals than Kobe in one game, but hasn't scored more...why is that? Because Kobe has a wider arsenal on offense...he can beat you in more ways, and this is really not even debated by many...PeACe
--- End quote ---
Their free throw attempts per game are similar because they are getting a similar amount of foul calls lol. You believe Kobe SO much, that you are actually buying into him crying on every play that he is getting fouled. Just because he complains about it, doesnt mean it happened. Even KLAC makes fun of the fact that Kobe thinks he is fouled everytime he doesnt score. Oh I know...KLAC is full of Laker Haters right? Even though its an LA/Laker station. Again NIK...why do coaches tell their players to drive to the hoop? ESPECIALLY...if the bigs, or the man defending you is in foul trouble?? Why? Because you are more likely to draw fouls driving to the hoop. You are arguing that Kobes game is more versatile and that he can score from the outside..etc...etc. If that is the case, then you also have to admit that Jordan was driving into the lane more. Common basketball knowledge tells you he would draw more fouls then. However, they have virtually the same FTA/minute. So it sounds to me...like Kobe is actually getting the benifit of the referees whistle more seeing as how he plays a style that is LESS likely to get fouled...but yet shoots the same amount of free throws.
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