Kobe...

[Sccit]

a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol

LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.

He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).

Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.

LOL!!! Wow...

First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq.  No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.

Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.

[teecee]

a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol

LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.

He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).

Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.

LOL!!! Wow...

First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq.  No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.

Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.

Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid    He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore  playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now.  NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP.   If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's. 

You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in.   Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan.   That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit.   And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title?  He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability).   Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates. 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in.

Not entirely true.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nba/01playoffs/stories/2001-06-05-bryant-cover.htm

[Sccit]

a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol

LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.

He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).

Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.

LOL!!! Wow...

First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq.  No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.

Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.

Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid    He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore  playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now.  NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP.   If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's. 

You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in.   Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan.   That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit.   And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title?  He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability).   Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates. 

AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.

[7even]

Shaq was an absurd freak of nature in his prime, I have never seen such a human being. It was like a grown man playing with some talented kids. He was so dominant, only fouls could stop him and sometimes not even that. It pissed me off so much. It was just not fair. All he had to do is get the ball in the paint and noone could do anything. I really hated that shit.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol

LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.

He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).

Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.

LOL!!! Wow...

First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq.  No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.

Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.

You can discredit those titles somewhat when he was playin second fiddle to Shaq. Anyone with any basketball knowledge knows that Shaq was the main focus of that team. Not too many people argue that lol. Shaq was the one creating double and even triple teams at times, opening up the entire floor for EVERYone else. Even Kobe. When was that ever the case for Jordan? lol Those Laker teams were very good because of both of them. You had a bigman who was billed as one of the most dominant bigman ever. And Kobe who was one of the best players in the league as well. But during Jordans run, there was never a question who was the best in the game...let alone, on his team. And as far as that goes, ever SINCE Jordan...the whole "best in the game" argument is pretty flawed. The media plays a big role in this. Ever since Jordan the media and league has been desperate to find the NEXT Jordan. Well, the next Jordan can never be a bigman. Bigs dont tend to offer the same quality of highlights and excitement that an athletic perimeter player does. Im sure people have noticed how the "best in the game" argument over the last 15 years has only been reserved for guards or small forwards exclusively. No matter who the big is. Shaq is considered a top ten player all time, but he was never really called the BEST in the game. Instead they called him the most dominant (that way they could reserve the "best" title for someone else). Duncan is a top ten player all time and best PF all time with multiple MVPs and finals MVPs, and again...he was rarely referred to as the "BEST" player in the game. They simply called him the best big man in the league. You cant tell me that since Jordan retired...there has never been a time where a big was the best player in the game. They just wont be argued over by the media....because the media wants excitement.

[teecee]

a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol

LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.

He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).

Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.

LOL!!! Wow...

First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq.  No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.

Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.

Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid    He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore  playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now.  NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP.   If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's. 

You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in.   Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan.   That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit.   And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title?  He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability).   Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates. 

AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.

See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit.   I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention.   Cool

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol

LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.

He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).

Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.

LOL!!! Wow...

First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq.  No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.

Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.

Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid    He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore  playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now.  NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP.   If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's. 

You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in.   Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan.   That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit.   And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title?  He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability).   Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates. 

AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.

See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit.   I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention.   Cool

lol Kobe deferred to Shaq because that was the logical key to victory for those Laker squads. If Kobe was the focal point of those teams, Shaq would have needed to defer to Kobe. And didnt Shaq say Wade was the best player in the league when he played with him? NIK only listens to shit Shaq says, if its something good about Kobe. The rest of the time Shaq is a bitter hater lol. And Im sorry, but during those 3 peat years...the only way Kobe was part of any "GOAT" conversations was if people were saying "this kid is not going to be the GOAT" lol. Hardly anyone NOW even considers him the GOAT...or even in the top 5 players ever. Typically not even the top 10 yet. Not even the greatest Laker yet. So to think that back THEN he was in the conversation is delusional. I dont think anyone here doubts Kobe as an all time great. But NIK just goes overboard and pretends like Kobe was considered an all time great always....even by the 12 teams that passed on him in the draft.

[Sccit]

a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol

LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.

He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).

Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.

LOL!!! Wow...

First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq.  No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.

Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.

You can discredit those titles somewhat when he was playin second fiddle to Shaq. Anyone with any basketball knowledge knows that Shaq was the main focus of that team. Not too many people argue that lol. Shaq was the one creating double and even triple teams at times, opening up the entire floor for EVERYone else. Even Kobe. When was that ever the case for Jordan? lol Those Laker teams were very good because of both of them. You had a bigman who was billed as one of the most dominant bigman ever. And Kobe who was one of the best players in the league as well. But during Jordans run, there was never a question who was the best in the game...let alone, on his team. And as far as that goes, ever SINCE Jordan...the whole "best in the game" argument is pretty flawed. The media plays a big role in this. Ever since Jordan the media and league has been desperate to find the NEXT Jordan. Well, the next Jordan can never be a bigman. Bigs dont tend to offer the same quality of highlights and excitement that an athletic perimeter player does. Im sure people have noticed how the "best in the game" argument over the last 15 years has only been reserved for guards or small forwards exclusively. No matter who the big is. Shaq is considered a top ten player all time, but he was never really called the BEST in the game. Instead they called him the most dominant (that way they could reserve the "best" title for someone else). Duncan is a top ten player all time and best PF all time with multiple MVPs and finals MVPs, and again...he was rarely referred to as the "BEST" player in the game. They simply called him the best big man in the league. You cant tell me that since Jordan retired...there has never been a time where a big was the best player in the game. They just wont be argued over by the media....because the media wants excitement.

Kobe has been the clear-cut best for some time now, and those who try to put the LeBron's and Wade's on his level are out of their mind, and I credit a lot of that to media and marketing.

[Sccit]

a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol

LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.

He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).

Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.

LOL!!! Wow...

First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq.  No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.

Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.

Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid    He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore  playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now.  NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP.   If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's. 

You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in.   Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan.   That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit.   And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title?  He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability).   Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates. 

AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.

See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit.   I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention.   Cool

Not only do i obviously believe everything I say, but everything i've written is also the truth...and most people who have followed Kobe's career believe the same. The general public is made to believe that Kobe, Wade, and LeBron are all great players in the same class, when clearly, Kobe is another type of player who has been head-and-shoulders above the rest for some time now, and his numerous accomplishments and record breaking numbers are both GOAT material.

[Sccit]

a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol

LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.

He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).

Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.

LOL!!! Wow...

First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq.  No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.

Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.

Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid    He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore  playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now.  NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP.   If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's. 

You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in.   Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan.   That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit.   And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title?  He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability).   Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates. 

AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.

See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit.   I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention.   Cool

lol Kobe deferred to Shaq because that was the logical key to victory for those Laker squads. If Kobe was the focal point of those teams, Shaq would have needed to defer to Kobe. And didnt Shaq say Wade was the best player in the league when he played with him? NIK only listens to shit Shaq says, if its something good about Kobe. The rest of the time Shaq is a bitter hater lol. And Im sorry, but during those 3 peat years...the only way Kobe was part of any "GOAT" conversations was if people were saying "this kid is not going to be the GOAT" lol. Hardly anyone NOW even considers him the GOAT...or even in the top 5 players ever. Typically not even the top 10 yet. Not even the greatest Laker yet. So to think that back THEN he was in the conversation is delusional. I dont think anyone here doubts Kobe as an all time great. But NIK just goes overboard and pretends like Kobe was considered an all time great always....even by the 12 teams that passed on him in the draft.

He wasn't always an all-time great, obviously. He came outa high school and had to work his way up, which is part of why he has the greatest work ethic in basketball of all time...but around 21, 22, it was already evident to many that he was special and possessed a skill-set reminiscent of Jordan, with a drive and desire as strong, if not stronger than Jordan's. Honestly, if Shaq woulda had less of an ego and had taken a back-seat to Kobe when it was time, Lakers woulda won a couple more championships with that duo in the 03-07 era. But when Shaq bounced, Kobe had to play on rebuilding teams and that, along with the rape case, really hurt him and had the media looking for other players to market and hype. This was never the case with Jordan, which is why Kobe will NEVER be as glorified or as publicly accepted as Jordan...but as good as Jordan on the court? NOTHING currently takes Kobe out of that discussion...PeACe

[Chamillitary Click]

a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol

LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.

He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).

Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.

LOL!!! Wow...

First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq.  No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.

Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.

Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid    He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore  playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now.  NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP.   If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's. 

You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in.   Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan.   That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit.   And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title?  He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability).   Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates. 

AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.

See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit.   I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention.   Cool

Not only do i obviously believe everything I say, but everything i've written is also the truth...and most people who have followed Kobe's career believe the same. The general public is made to believe that Kobe, Wade, and LeBron are all great players in the same class, when clearly, Kobe is another type of player who has been head-and-shoulders above the rest for some time now, and his numerous accomplishments and record breaking numbers are both GOAT material.

you don't think there is any coincidence that Wade was given Shaq & he won a ring & Kobe got bounced, quick?

[wcsoldier]

Kobe was clearly the 2nd offensive option during the 1st title ... it's way more arguable for the next 2... He averaged more pts than Shaq in the 2000-2001 playoffs (29.4 to 28.7) and it was very closed in 2001-2002 (27.2 for Shaq ; 26.6 for Kobe)

The reason that Shaq was the clear MVP of the Finals is the East was fuckin weak in the paint , I don't even remember who was the starting center for the Nets in 02... of course we were going to feed Shaq more than Kobe in these Finals ...

[wcsoldier]

a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol

LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.

He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).

Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.

LOL!!! Wow...

First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq.  No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.

Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.

Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid    He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore  playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now.  NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP.   If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's. 

You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in.   Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan.   That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit.   And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title?  He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability).   Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates. 

AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.

See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit.   I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention.   Cool

Not only do i obviously believe everything I say, but everything i've written is also the truth...and most people who have followed Kobe's career believe the same. The general public is made to believe that Kobe, Wade, and LeBron are all great players in the same class, when clearly, Kobe is another type of player who has been head-and-shoulders above the rest for some time now, and his numerous accomplishments and record breaking numbers are both GOAT material.

you don't think there is any coincidence that Wade was given Shaq & he won a ring & Kobe got bounced, quick?

Shaq impact was very poor in the Finals against Dallas ... Dallas choking , Wade great play and the refs won that title ... anyways this team was easily the weakest champion in NBA history

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol

LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.

He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).

Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.

LOL!!! Wow...

First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq.  No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.

Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.

You can discredit those titles somewhat when he was playin second fiddle to Shaq. Anyone with any basketball knowledge knows that Shaq was the main focus of that team. Not too many people argue that lol. Shaq was the one creating double and even triple teams at times, opening up the entire floor for EVERYone else. Even Kobe. When was that ever the case for Jordan? lol Those Laker teams were very good because of both of them. You had a bigman who was billed as one of the most dominant bigman ever. And Kobe who was one of the best players in the league as well. But during Jordans run, there was never a question who was the best in the game...let alone, on his team. And as far as that goes, ever SINCE Jordan...the whole "best in the game" argument is pretty flawed. The media plays a big role in this. Ever since Jordan the media and league has been desperate to find the NEXT Jordan. Well, the next Jordan can never be a bigman. Bigs dont tend to offer the same quality of highlights and excitement that an athletic perimeter player does. Im sure people have noticed how the "best in the game" argument over the last 15 years has only been reserved for guards or small forwards exclusively. No matter who the big is. Shaq is considered a top ten player all time, but he was never really called the BEST in the game. Instead they called him the most dominant (that way they could reserve the "best" title for someone else). Duncan is a top ten player all time and best PF all time with multiple MVPs and finals MVPs, and again...he was rarely referred to as the "BEST" player in the game. They simply called him the best big man in the league. You cant tell me that since Jordan retired...there has never been a time where a big was the best player in the game. They just wont be argued over by the media....because the media wants excitement.

Kobe has been the clear-cut best for some time now,

to who?? Maybe Im living on a different planet than you. This last year the consensus was that LeBron was the best player on the planet. With Kobe it has typically ALWAYS gone back in forth. There are times where he is the best player...times where LeBron is...etc. And btw, like I was talkin about before with the "best" player argument. I rarely like to call ANYone the best player. I distinguish between positions...or at least between bigs and perimeter players. Again, bigs tend to never get credit in todays NBA. People want to argue over LeBron and Kobe because they are highlight reels...and because everyone is hoping for the next Jordan. A big cant be that...no matter how good they are.